Yevgeni Luchenkov

We offered you guys a merciful way out. Well, you weren't there. Oh shi... that means you're about to call another AA in and blame us for manipulating others into not calling you to the talks. Damned hell. For all that talk from Anarchy Inc., we haven't fought any of yours since a good month. Did we agree to a ceasefire or what?

It might actually work if you weren't arguing against clear cut logs coming from your own coalition, where your allies said outright that they needed help to cover us in a tier where they have us outnumbered 7 to 1. Just sayin'.

Man, so we got NPO and AI saying we're mind controlling their allies, Chefjoe saying we're evil masterminds and trying to rewrite history, old school Polaris saying they were right for BiPolar and all of AI's allies saying they didn't actually need any help, even though there are logs of them directly asking Brehon for military help. This thread delivers. @RnR: Aren't you busy riding three fences? Go back to irrelevance.

Save for the part where your coalition approached us for peace and offered terms first. Twice. But hey, sure, whatever floats your boat. GATO did. In general, it's poor form to start hailing your allies when they enter against your coalition partners. If anything, you wish them luck in private embassies or shared channels.

We didn't want to surrender. Actually, your coalition partners should know that because that was their first offer and we refused it before those talks even took place. Those talks took place because there was a renewed desire to seek peace [i]coming from[/i] some of your coalition partners. We made an offer. Again, you paint us like master puppeters as if your entire coalition had no free will whatsoever. We didn't prevent them from calling you to the peace talks. We asked them to bring at least one person per AA. We didn't mind control them into forgetting that you exist, as you seem to imply. As far as scheming goes, we offered a general peace that included your AA. I don't know for you but I've seen a lot more evil things. Are you trying your best to be the Bob Sanders of this war, or what?

If wars were fueled by bad posting, MCXA would be PZIed.

You're running out of nations able to do that, though.

Except that "most of our membership" (what, six or seven guys?) showed up here to point out: 1)That Pacifica has an inferiority complex regarding Paradoxia. (I don't share the thought) 2)That your coalition has to be lamentable to require reinforcements at this juncture. 3)That your coalition members visibly don't trust each other. 4)That it wasn't our fault if nobody from your side had thought about inviting you to peace talks. And since the last three points are completly correct, some of you then proceeded to say: "haha, you're whining" instead of addressing or acknowledging them. Which is a fantastic way of dodging debates. For example, you quote my post, yet attack none of its content except to say that "we're whining" and would require some anal ointment. You might want to adapt your posting, though. Replying to timetables of events by "ahaha, you're whining" doesn't exactly reflect well on your mental capacities. @Mayzie: Would losing twice as much NS as we did equates to hurting? It's not like our nations out of PM are simply sitting ducks getting killed.

I'm pretty sure it's coming from the fact that you had to ask Pacifica to help reinforce you in the lower to middle tier, as evidenced by comments made by Brehon, Ted (from TORN) or Otter from Argent, among others. Also, logs between Brehon and Ted. The main issue within PF was mostly our relations with Umbrella who were often very tense, thus creating a very bad position for Argent. You perhaps want to go back to the days of the Revenge War, where Janax and I went at it for a few weeks. If the whole point was to change course, why did Argent stay allied to Umbrella for so long? Why did you guys keep asking us to mend relations with Umbrella and wish us to go back to good relations with them? You know, that game of "you prioritized your allies over the bloc" goes both ways. In the end, you wanted us to choose between DR and a moralistic approach and our friends in Doomhouse, some of those very friends you had insisted we make. We're not the ones who got into the relationship by trying to change everybody else. We came with our set of treaties and we told you from the start what to expect. We took some of the criticism and worked on what could be worked on. You wanted us to go where we didn't want to go and then blamed it for the collapse of the bloc: we have large backs and we don't mind admitting some mistakes but the collapse of PF wasn't our fault. It had a lot more to do with changes in the government of Argent (and the abrupt changes it brought to its FA --> signing treaties without telling OTPs, abandoning Umbrella, etc.) , the disbanding of OMFG and BN and the inactivity in Grämlins.

We founded PF with a given set of treaties. During the existence of PF, we were often told that we needed to work hard on mending relations with Umbrella. Which we did. Our other treaties never changed. Tell me, again, who changed course?

For all the "TOP is whining" you precious gentlemen are spewing, you haven't heard a single Paradoxian complain that the NPO is hitting us. On the other hand, lo and behold, AI gets forgotten by its own allies and suddenly, TOP is the supreme evil of all mankind. Heck, you went as far as to say BiPolar was a justified move. Yet, for all your nonsensical ramblings about how evil we are, you can't pin a single crime against us. We've tried to get answers from others too. Hey Argent, what's up with you holding a grudge? A grudge over what? And TORN, wanting to see us under a jackboot? When did we last talk? BiPolar? Take Sigrun here. She goes from thread to thread attacking us. Our alleged crime against her? That we would have banned her from our boards in 2008. I understand you guys need villains to justify your pathetic attempts at moral posturing but you will have to try harder. At least, be creative. Invent some stuff. Don't just start ranting about how "you see our true face" and "how deserved the beatdown you took was" when you can't even tell why it was. The facts remain: 1)Some of your coalition partners approached us to discuss peace. 2)Your coalition partners made us an offer. Did they consult you? It's not up to us to make sure you're included, baby cake. If your allies want to discuss peace without your noble oversight, there might be a reason. 3)We refused said offer. We then talked the next day. The discussions began as preliminary talks. More people got involved. At some point, both sides felt good to include "everyone". We asked your coalition partners to contact their allies. They said they were doing it. They then told us two or three were missing but that we could proceed. 4)We made a counter-offer. 5)Your coalition partners talked among themselves to see if they were willing to consider it. 6)They rejected it. Things got downhill from that point on as TORN's representant decided it was smart to make joke counter-offers and then threaten us. Peace talks were aborted. TORN then contacted Pacifica for help. We totally understand why Pacifica DoWed on us, as we said many times, we do not fault them. There is bad blood between us, though, so I don't expect everybody to stay entirely civil. If you think we somehow manipulated ten of your allies into forgetting that you exist, you very likely should take a step back and reevaluate what you are saying: that means either ten of your allies are massively incompetent OR Paradoxians have supernatural powers.

Fine. We'll send Saber and Buller to represent TOP in those fine talks. @Schatt: Feel free to DoW. You always write nice DoWs and I'm sure they could use the help.

Who's the "we"? Argent? You've been on the winning side of coalitions your entire existence, save for BiPolar. Don't throw us the line that you've been a victim all your life, please. When the going was good, at the height of Doomhouse's presumed crimes, you were a firm ally of Umbrella, TOP and IRON. Your recent moralist linings have more to do with opportunism and many changes in your government line-up rather than a time honored resistance against the oppressive powers that be. Save that spiel for those on your side. Letum, amusing set of arguments. We're not "nitpicking", though. If you invade a country and you bring a coalition with you, it's dedicated manpower you think you'll be needing. If later on you need to bring more people, it's because you visibly need reinforcements. If you didn't, you wouldn't call anybody. It's as simple as that. And if you need reinforcements, it's because we are indeed putting the hurt. Arguing against reality strikes me as rather weird. You're not calling in more soldiers just to have them parade around. The political part of your involvement has already been cleared by your own Emperor in the previous pages. We are sneaky people, we cannot be trusted not to outsmart your current coalition and, as such, there needs to be Pacifican oversight at the peace table. We're cool with that.

Pacifica is bringing peace and prosperity to Paradoxia.

If you had entered at first on us, I'd have said: "hey, they're just trying to make sure they have surpluses of manpower to bring us down properly". Right now, it's called a reinforcement. It says that we're hurting your allies. Which, in a 12 vs 1 scenario where they outnumber us seven to one in the middle to lower tier, shouldn't happen. But like we said, it's either that or you don't trust them to make the proper political decisions. As evidenced by the last pages, it's a mix of both. I wouldn't say it's a return to the vassalization of old but some people are definitely now under the tutelage of Pacifica. We hold no ill will towards Pacifica. You are doing what you must with the poor set of cards you were dealt.

Accept it. It's a genuine offer. Hey, it worked with Lum.

The implication being we are smart enough to do some sneak move that would go undetected by your allies but not by you. Interesting.

Yeah. And what we're saying is that the reason why AI wasn't there isn't us. We asked our opponents to contact everybody on their side of the fence to make sure all alliances had at least one spokeperson in the talks. We were told "two or three AAs couldn't make it". If AI was never contacted, the blame lays entirely at the feet of your allies. As AI wasn't actively involved in the war and we were offering something fair, we esteemed that they either trusted their allies enough or that the information would be relayed to them. Instead, we were met with a rebuttal and joke counter-offers. You wanted in those talks? Again, should have told us or, better yet, asked your allies. Since, y'know, this was a counter-offer to the initial approach that was made by some of your allies. Edit: We will see your alliance burn for that incredibly arrogant response, Auctor. Salt, earth, etc.

Now, now, Otter. Don't lie in public, it's not nice. Some of your coalition members sought us for a peace deal first. We agreed to talks. Not the other way around.

What prevented you from that? As far as I know, your allies didn't bother calling you or AI. We never objected to anything. Why they didn't is probably something you should figure out among yourselves.

So, let me get this straight. Ted went to these peace talks and acted like TORN were destroying us and would put its jackboot on our neck. He threw "joke" counter-offers, meant to be offensive, further torpedoing any negotiations. And then... He asked Pacifica for help? Golden.

Give me gifs all you want, Bcortell. The truth of the matter is that one is these is true: 1)You're hurting and had to call in help; 2)Pacifica doesn't trust your front to hold negotiations and wants a seat at the table. Pick your poison. @Hart: Take a look at the number of nations you've lost in the same category. Your entire front has one nation left above 90k NS that isn't in permanent Peace Mode. While no alliance on your side has lost as much as TOP in terms of pure NS, one must also think that we're the largest alliance engaged on our side. We also engaged AI heavily in the first wave, likely causing heavy damage there. If you take all of the AAs, our front has lost 6.8m NS. Yours is down 13m (not counting AI) and it's pretty concentrated in five AAs. We're holding just fine.

@Brehon: For AI's absence, you might have to question your own allies as to why they didn't see fit to invite them. @hartfw: One doesn't exclude the other. You're hurting. Hell, even your allies are admitting as much and Pacifica's presence is further proof that you needed help. It doesn't mean you're not also holding a grudge, which we clearly saw yesterday. We especially liked TORN's antics.

What are you talking about? Where did you see me talk about any crime? Do you even read posts or do you just prepare replies and throw them at will, without any thought as to what was written before? Summary for all: TOP was approached by members of your coalition with a peace offer. Other members didn't take so kindly that they were left out. Meanwhile, Argent, Sengoku and TORN hold a grudge against Paradoxia without explicitly saying so. We gave you a counter-offer encompassing all of your coalition, you rejected it. You then sent us a bravado-filled counter-offer. As we can clearly see today, you were in no position to even imagine making demands, seeing that you need the help of Pacifica. Pacifica got in this war to have a seat in negotiations because it doesn't trust your bunch to stay the course AND because we're obviously outdamaging you by a lot. To the point where you consider needing help in the middle to low tier, where you have us outnumbered seven to one.

In light of recent events, this is highly ironic. To the coalition we are facing: I'd like to say that I'm happy to see your little bravado of yesterday was all for naught and that you had to call Pacifica - of all possible alliances - to help you in your crusade against our villainous alliances. I don't think it will have the effect you so desire but it is for sure an enjoyable spectacle. To Pacifica: although my colleagues may hold a different opinion, I don't fault you for doing what's necessary to keep your coalition from falling apart. Some alliances, especially Argent, Sengoku and TORN, were in much needed support. I salute you and hope to meet some of you on the battlefield, As an added note, I'd like to point out that your coalition is the one who approached us with a peace offer in the first place. We responded with a counter-offer that they rejected.