Jewelangel

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1292094069' post='2536605'] I don't really see what making public details of an issue which is, with Was's decision, effectively closed, would do. The basic (if vague) facts of the matter are already out there and not contested by most people (VE made a masking error, [b]Was took advantage of that to obtain opsec information and distributed it via Skype voice chat[/b], VE was talking to TKTB about the issue and Was has pre-empted any decision by leaving and posting this thread). Please don't tech raid him at this time. [/quote] The bolded part is being contested.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292092414' post='2536580'] While I can understand your displeasure - even if your comments and tone are as unbecoming of diplomacy as what you allege of VE - I'm sure you can understand the [i]other viewpoint[/i] here. That knowingly accessing private alliance intel AND knowingly sharing said intel with third parties constitutes espionage, an action that, as precedence and good sense dictate, is clearly condemnable. Those who find Wasdrogans's actions (remember, actions that constitute espionage) justifiable because of VE's masking error (who coincidentally are, for the most part, allies of TKTB and/or on the other side of the web [so those with bias and/or with ulterior motives]) are ridiculous, simple as that. "It's ok that he accessed and shared info privy only to VE because VE mistakenly didn't restrict his access!" I think you'll find that VE hasn't released more information for the same reason that WasDrogan is not yet at war (and for the reason that's been mentioned) - it's early on here with regards to the unfolding of this situation (remember, WasDrogan started this thread, it wasn't VE who then proceeded to be tight-lipped). Seems more to be the case not that they're not releasing more information, but that they haven't yet had the opportunity to deal with this situation in its entirety. [/quote] Information should have been shared with me before this thread was created while they were trying to make me kick him out of the alliance. I am defending him based on what I have been told which I believe is the truth from WasDrogan. If there is evidence out there that shows he has been lying to me, I would be extremely interested in seeing it. Yet again I will say, what my allies and I have repeatedly said. We do not condone spying. Logging into somewhere to find out you still have a mask and logging back out again is not spying.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1292089296' post='2536499'] If you had refused to give him up, as you tacitly claim you wanted to do, you would have been condoning his actions. [/quote] Right up to this very minute we are still waiting on proof that there was something done to have reason to give him up. With no evidence of any wrong doing by Was, and his denial of doing anything wrong, of course I would protect him.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1292088961' post='2536491'] Just because you are small and frail is not nor has ever been an excuse for condoning the actions of a spying member. It has been treated exactly the same as if a large alliance had done it, size does not come into it. [/quote] There was never any condoning of spying.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1292086094' post='2536442'] Don't kid yourself, you were folding like origami regardless of whether he did this or not, the most recent logs of discussion with your alliance show as much. This just allows you to claim some lesser defeat. Not that I blame you of course, nobody would want to be in front of Pandora's guns. [/quote] The last conversations we had were to try and keep things from going insane. We were trying to get specific with the 'punishment' they wanted for Was. And to be honest, PB doesn't scare me but I do have to think of all of my alliance, not just one member. The arrogance of trying to bully a 900k ns alliance with the strength of PB on the other hand, makes me understand why so many people are leaving Bob.

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1292076857' post='2536357'] [color="#FF0000"]VE should provide evidence. TKTB should stick up for their member and not back down like cowards. Grow a pair, and take a stand...IF you are right.[/color][color="#FF0000"][/color] [/quote] Not sure where you see us backing down. Was left to protect us. This was his choice. We were arguing with VE right up to him posting this.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1292072773' post='2536310'] do some leg work and pm one of the mentioned people [/quote] James has left, Ikke is as inactive as possible... and Shuru is afk. So was there someone else I could talk to?

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1292070292' post='2536288'] I'm not sure when it was that VE became the alliance that hunted ex-members, but it wasn't 2010. The basis of the VE-Polar crisis back in 2008 was VE's desire to hunt an ex-member who was then a member of Polaris. Surprisingly enough, they accused him of spying too. [/quote] They probably "forgot" to demask him too.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1292069319' post='2536276'] Ohh really, that's funny, the logs I have of James chatting to me about it must be a figment of my imagination. I mean after all, him saying to me as MoW for TSI "IKKE has been telling me about X Y Z" must be me making things up. My bad Barix I mean you know best aye. Or you know nothing and you should check before you bash your keyboard full of nonsense. It's pretty simple really. IKKE was a member of TSI IKKE left to join James in TKTB (former TSI member) IKKE passed on intel to James. James pm's me and shuru about it on IRC to discuss it. But of coarse your alliance has never partaken in such antics. [/quote] Considering I have been in TKTB as gov for as long as it's been around, it's rather curious that I am just hearing about this a year after Ikke joined TKTB.

We here at the The Killer Turtle Brigade are saddened to see such a great member stripped away from us by those who would bully their way around diplomacy. We're glad war was averted due to Wasdrogans selflessness, and politely wish those trying to cause a war would burn in hell? [quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1292068345' post='2536272'] It's not as if TKTB don't have history of intel gathering from other alliances, aye IKKE/James, I'm glad someone's in a position to hump them for it. [/quote] TKTB have no history of doing such a thing. James is no longer a member of TKTB and I have no idea what you are talking about.

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1291367527' post='2528923'] for Jewel. [/quote] Awwww

[quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1291052580' post='2525910'] Also we love you guys. [BTW: those in the picture are terrapins, not turtles...] [/quote] They were turtley and so damn cute... thats all that matters.

[center][img]http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/821/turtleflag.png[/img] [size="5"][color=blue][b]The Killer Turtle Brigade[/b][/color][/size] [b][size="4"]Reasons to Partake in the Turtle Love?[/size][/b] [size="3"]We are a [color=blue][b]blue team[/b][/color] alliance that is trying to create a cozy and fun alliance. We have members that have been around for a very long time and they wish to help, guide and encourage new nations to grow. The government is one that will listen to all members opinions and include you in the decision making. We offer 15mil in aid to new nations and internal tech deals of 3mil/50tech. Oh and we have one of the cutest flags in CN. [/size] [size="4"][color=blue][b]If this sounds like the kind of alliance you are looking for visit our forum or come and talk to us on IRC.[/b][/color][/size] [size="3"]TKTB Forums: [url=http://tktb.co.cc/]Click[/url] TKTB Wiki: [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Killer_Turtle_Brigade]Click[/url] TKTB IRC: #TKTB @ Coldfront[/size] [img]http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3779/2504turtles1.jpg[/img][/center]

Congrats guys for Elfriede

Congrats to my TIO and IAA loves

[quote name='lordliam' timestamp='1289179804' post='2505508'] AcTi lost half a million NS and all her nations save 5 are in Anarchy. As for Sirius, most of her alliances have only a few in Anarchy and the biggest NS loss was by TKTB, which was 200k. BTA gained NS in the first day, but lost half of what was gained the next. TIO and TCU actually gained NS over the course of 2 days, while IAA's remained unchanged. Good job Sirius. I'm pretty sure Battalion would gladly exchange half a million NS of his alliance in return for you guys not ZIing him. [/quote] TKTB only lost about 70k in the war. We've lost two members since peace hit.

Feel free to keep arguing. This is what James wants and what he will get. As for the messed up stagger... get over it. Hasn't there been enough discussion on it in other threads?

We felt that Batallion deserved ZI to make him realise that he should act more diplomatically and less arrogantly before dragging his whole innocent alliance into a war for no real reason.

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' timestamp='1289101581' post='2504648'] From Screenshot #3, what Umbrella guy? [/quote] I believe he meant PC and got confused.

[quote name='Teddyyo' timestamp='1289099476' post='2504616'] "Verbal DoW" reminds me of when TOP got crushed, and their CB was declared crap. What was it, again? Oh yeah. It was, "you guys are always saying you will declare on us!" Of course, this is [i]Batallion[/i], so it's different. [/quote] No, it's different because someone from AcTi attacked a member of ours that wasn't involved with the rogue with the war reason "orders", (not "tech raid" or anything else that a rogue would usually use) and Batallion posted a DoW a few minutes later. Which is what he said he would do. If no-one from AcTi, this wouldn't be happening right now. This is also the last time I will bother replying to any comments regarding the DoW. Find me on irc if you wish to continue this.

[quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1289097254' post='2504586'] Why oh why can't we have more people like you? I demand a supply of 1000 Lockes [/quote] No more Lockes... we can't have any more insane people agreeing with you. Also, nice flag. Its better than the other one.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1289089122' post='2504446'] Where is this verbal DoW you speak of, in fact, what the hell is a verbal DoW? [/quote] A verbal DoW is when a leader of an alliance says to you that they will be DoWing you at update. Also since I have no time to look through the many logs I will just show you from Bat's DoW thread (bolded and underlined just for you): [quote name='Batallion' timestamp='1289020346' post='2503534'] I ask James Maximus to pay us reps as a last resort to avoid war ([u][b]they knew this was coming from last night in fact, this war is no surprise[/b][/u]). [/quote]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1289088195' post='2504425'] Your DoW was six minutes prior to that. Try again. Until a DoW is posted or a large portion of the alliance is at war with you there exists no state of war between your two alliances. One nation is not the entire alliance. [/quote] One nation with the reason "orders" plus a verbal DoW a few hours earlier from the leader of said alliance is a state of war. It really is not our fault that one nation was premature with their attack.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1289087857' post='2504417'] Show me logs where you pursued diplomacy when the rogue attacked you and I'll change my mind. [/quote] There was no rogue attacking us. How about you showing me where you get your rogue theory from as this states it was a DoW from AcTi: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94340&view=findpost&p=2503534

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1289086023' post='2504381'] People would have complained no matter what you would have done. Don't listen to the haters and keep going. Good move overall. [/quote] The Omniscient one speaks the truth.