The Path To Fusion Power

[V The King]

OOC: Apparently, having a Nuclear Power Plant in-game allows me to have a Fusion Power Plant in CNRP, so I'll roleplay the development of one, partially through flashbacks and the rest in "real-time".

IC:

Back when the Monarchists became the ruling faction of Viniland...

Message to the Ministry of Energy:

We believe that we have came up with a way of establishing a commercially viable reactor utilizing fusion power. Are you interested on hearing us?

-Comitê na Pesquisa da Fusão Nuclear (CPFN) (Nuclear Fusion Research Committee)

---

Reply from the Ministry of Energy:

The Ministry has heard of the CPFN before... and has vested interested on your discoveries. Would you mind sharing them?

-The Ministry of Energy

---

Answer from the Comitê na Pesquisa da Fusão Nuclear

Mere words cannot explain our discoveries. We need that the Ministry sends a team of representatives down to Lloydminster (where our experimental reactors, data, etc. are at) so they can see the progress made by themselves and receive a live explanation.

-CPFN

---

Reply from the Ministry of Energy:

Fair enough. A team of six representatives, including the Minister himself will be sent to Lloydminster. Mail us your precise address.

-The Ministry of Energy

To be continued...

OOC note 2: Any help in regards to this RP would be welcomed. I am not very... fusion power savvy, and if there is someone 'round here with knowledge about the subject that could lend me a hand, that'd be pretty cool.

Edited April 5, 2009 by V The King

[HHAYD]

OOC: Based on my knowledge of Fusion power, there are two types of fusion power (but I can't remember the exact names). The first kind combines Hydrogen with Oxygen, and the second kind combines Hydrogen with Hydrogen. Hydrogen are hard to get unless if you use electricity to extra Hydrogen from water. However, that would make the fusion power plants use more energy than they produce.

Fusion power is only useful if you can find hydrogen gas without having to use large amount of energy to extract them.

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: Fusion power able to be done on earth is almost exclusively deuterium with tridium to form 4He and a extra neutron. Also, I am asking if I can join in IC.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

However, that would make the fusion power plants use more energy than they produce.

Fusion power is only useful if you can find hydrogen gas without having to use large amount of energy to extract them.

OOC: It also takes a poop load of power generating a magnetic field to stop the reaction from incenerating everything in a 20 mile radius. That is, unless you have a tech level areound 3000 and can develop cold fusion.

[Ranather]

OOC: Cold fusion is at least a 10k tech level achievement considering I personally have yet to hear of it's successfull employment, and I'm pretty well connected.

[V The King]

OOC: Fusion power able to be done on earth is almost exclusively deuterium with tridium to form 4He and a extra neutron. Also, I am asking if I can join in IC.

OOC: Would you like to join as one of the scientists of the committee?

OOC: It also takes a poop load of power generating a magnetic field to stop the reaction from incenerating everything in a 20 mile radius. That is, unless you have a tech level areound 3000 and can develop cold fusion.

Tech level ain't much of an issue, I'm at 5,500.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Tech level ain't much of an issue, I'm at 5,500.

OOC: I'm talking about the year 3000

[HHAYD]

OOC: It also takes a poop load of power generating a magnetic field to stop the reaction from incenerating everything in a 20 mile radius. That is, unless you have a tech level areound 3000 and can develop cold fusion.

OOC: Can't you burn hydrogen and oxygen without having a magnetic field? All I know is those combination generates large amount of explosion and heat.

[Raritan]

OOC: Can't you burn hydrogen and oxygen without having a magnetic field? All I know is those combination generates large amount of explosion and heat.

OOC: Combustion is entirely different from nuclear fusion. Deuterium and Tritium (isotopes of Hydrogen) are often fused together to form Helium. You need the magnetic field to contain the Hydrogen being fused together.

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: It also takes a poop load of power generating a magnetic field to stop the reaction from incenerating everything in a 20 mile radius. That is, unless you have a tech level areound 3000 and can develop cold fusion.

OOC: Talk to anyone who has done even first year uni physics, and you will realise A: Fusion is easy, economically viable fusion is not. B: Cold fusion is impossible as fusion requires quantum tunneling, and the particle needs to be going fast (ie be hot) to have the uncertainty in its position great enough to give it the non zero probability of colliding.

OOC: Cold fusion is at least a 10k tech level achievement considering I personally have yet to hear of it's successfull employment, and I'm pretty well connected.

OOC: Its impossible, see above. Oh, and this

Also read Fusion Power. It has been achieved already, although the input energy was less than the output. The NPP wonder IG gives you the ability to RP fusion power plants where the output is greater than the input.

OOC: Would you like to join as one of the scientists of the committee?

OOC: Sure, if he can be Aotearoan.

Edited April 5, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[V The King]

OOC: Sure, if he can be Aotearoan.

OOC: Acceptable. Shoot me a PM with his back story/info, including name, how he came about to be in Viniland, etc..

Also, I'll RP the Ministry's representatives arriving tomorrow, then the explanations/build up of the actual plant will start over the week.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

OOC: It also takes a poop load of power generating a magnetic field to stop the reaction from incenerating everything in a 20 mile radius. That is, unless you have a tech level areound 3000 and can develop cold fusion.

ooc: Actually, if a fusion reactor's field failed there'd be a slight pop as superheated air came in contact with surrounding air and the hydrogen rapidly cooled. There isn't enough energy active in the reactor core to cause the same degree of damage as an actual thermonuclear weapon yield as there is no refined fuel prevalent in the surrounding environment as is specifically arranged in a nuclear device. Kind of like what you get during a lightning strike.

Fusion is actually a very challenging power source.. because you're basically trying to break the laws of conservation in physics and thermodynamics by getting more energy out of a process than you are putting into it.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

ooc: Fusion is actually a very challenging power source.. because you're basically trying to break the laws of conservation in physics and thermodynamics by getting more energy out of a process than you are putting into it.

OOC: Actually you are not. Mass-Energy conservation is not violated. The sum of the input energy + c*(input mass^2) = output energy + c*(output mass^2). Since the output mass is less, more energy is shown as output, which is why it seems like it violates the conservation of energy.

[Subtleknifewielder]

OOC: Actually you are not. Mass-Energy conservation is not violated. The sum of the input energy + c*(input mass^2) = output energy + c*(output mass^2). Since the output mass is less, more energy is shown as output, which is why it seems like it violates the conservation of energy.

OOC: This is correct. It's not just conservation of energy. The E=MC² equation is not just about energy, but mass as well.

[V The King]

OOC: Sorry for the delay, but I wanted to wait for the long weekend to start this.

IC:

Lloydminster, Nova Coimbra:

As the sun displaced moon's place in the sky, the representatives from the Ministry of Energy arrived at the city through an electric train. They left the station where they dropped off and walked their way to the CPFN laboratory, located only a few blocks away from where they were.

The lab was not a particularly great one. It was wholly funded by the scientists themselves, who came across funds by engaging in side jobs or selling their small-time inventions, mostly involving small and compatible heaters, air-conditioners and power generators - they never caught on a lot with the public, though, which could be a reason why the lab's ground level was a complete mess, with electric cables, unfinished heaters, metal parts, screws and whatnot scatted and piled all over the floor. It was a challenge to identify the aesthetics of this level - after some deliberation, the Minister of Energy determined that the floor was white, the walls green, the ceiling red and with a single window located in the side opposite of the entrance. However, the scientists were nowhere to be seen. Where they buried under the weight of all of the junk they accumulated over the years?

"They're here!" "Come down here!", shouted a voice with a rather thick French accent from downstairs, heavily muffled by the floor.

Obviously, they were all below the surface. Surely, there'd be a door leading to wherever they were... but none was to be found.

"Hey, you folks underground, how can we get down there?"

"There is a door that leads to a staircase."

"We can't see it."

"It's by the right side of the room. Should be visible and accessible."

"We can't see it."

"Oh, of course, it's a little bit hidden by our equipment (that's what they called their junk). After you make past the first "hill" you'll see it."

Indeed, as the visitors moved forward and got into the center of the room, they managed to spot an orange door, invisible to those in the entrance but somewhat apparent to those in the middle. After walking over all kinds of electronic leftovers, they made their way to the door, and then downstairs.

At last, they came to the location where the scientists where at. Now, the underground floor was where the actual lab seemed to be: it was immense in size and had a plethora of experimental equipment: laser machines, pitch devices, fusors, even a fission reactor could be found by the corner - however, all of those were quite aged, an evidence that money has been short for the scientists as of lately - the lack of the support from the past Conservative government didn't help, either.

However, the main attraction was of course, the nuclear fusion experimental reactor located at the center of the room, and compared to everything else, it looked fairly new.

The Ministry's representatives stood at a distance from the reactor, and the scientists distributed themselves along the tokamak. There were fifteen of them, with twelve of them being Vinilandese, two Vinilandese-Gebivian and one being an Aotearoan.

The Minister was now ready to receive some kind of explanation. He hoped he'd not just wasted his time traveling more than a thousand kilometers through land just to observe a failure.

EDIT: OOC: LVN, you can join at any time now.

Edited April 10, 2009 by V The King

[LeVentNoir]

Sir Geoffrey stood in the middle of the group. His eccentric hair held several pens tucked behind his ears, while his lab coat seemed to have so much in the pockets that you could find almost anything in them.

He stepped forward to introduce himself and the team. "Welcome Minister. I am Sir Geoffrey, and this is the team that has been working on the fusion project. I am from Aotearoa, but have been living and working here for some time. We have made significant advancements since the last project report." He then proceeded to introduce the rest of the scientists.

[iamthey]

OOC: There is also a process out there for Deuterium to Deuterium conversion though it requires more heat, and more input energy making it less efficient and more difficult to do. But it is out there. Also looks interesting good luck V/LVN

Edited April 10, 2009 by iamthey

[V The King]

OOC: Thanks, iamthey

IC:

Sir Geoffrey stood in the middle of the group. His eccentric hair held several pens tucked behind his ears, while his lab coat seemed to have so much in the pockets that you could find almost anything in them.

He stepped forward to introduce himself and the team. "Welcome Minister. I am Sir Geoffrey, and this is the team that has been working on the fusion project. I am from Aotearoa, but have been living and working here for some time. We have made significant advancements since the last project report." He then proceeded to introduce the rest of the scientists.

"I am glad to meet you, Sir Geoffrey.", replied the Minister as he shook hands with the foreigner. Geoffrey proceeded to introduced the remainder of the team. Amongst the rest of the bunch, Mr. Jean-Lazio and Mr. Andrade were the ones whose names he'd be remembering later.

Jean-Lazio was one of the two Vinilandese-Gebivians and the one who explained to the representatives how to get downstairs. He hailed from Nice, which justified his French accent. Being well-educated and a self-proclaimed master in Nuclear Physics, he heard of a nascent research group on Nuclear Fission (the Committee) in Viniland and immediately moved to the country, for it was a great opportunity for him to develop something new and useful. He was very agitated and always eager to carry on a conversation, although he would talk so fast at times he'd literately de-rail it. He was also very open-minded and some dare say, crazy, as reflected by his physical appearance: mid-fifties, uncombed, white long hair, a large mustache, scars all over his face (probably of burns from experiments he shouldn't be doing). He sported a very long robe that was originally white, but now has black and brown spots all over it.

He was the last one to be introduced, as thought as Geoffrey was "saving the best for the last". He shook hands with the Minister very vigorously, almost dislodging his wrist bones in the process. Clearly, he was very excited by the visit, and proudly spoke with his French accent:

"'Tis is magnificient that you came her! Voyez, I will show you what I have accomplished!"

"Firstly, though", interrupted the Minister "Mind telling us how much progress have you made since your last report?"

"Sûrement!", loudly replied Jean-Lazio "Last time, we reported that our energy input was only un peu lower than the energy output in notre reactor... but depuis that last time we've made great progress! We have manage to make energy go out many times more than it is put in! Plus, we have managed to find materials that will guarantee the stability of the plasma inside the reactor!"

"Uhh... mind explaining, or showing us that?"

"Indeed!"

The scientist team assembled together, put on preventive clothing (ergo, anti-radiation clothing) and began activating the reactor, setting it into motion. A sizable amount of noise was made. The team relied on readings from instruments connected to the tokamak to show the results. As the Deuterium-Tritium fuel consumed itself, computers calculating the amount of Megawatts produced, the amount of energy in/out, how much power was required to keep the plasma constant and the measured fusion energy gain factor were put at work, and a screen displayed the results. After the reactor ran for some time, and the factor remained fairly constant, it was turned off. The Minister was thoroughly impressed by the results.

"Wow... the factor is roughly 21! That's insane! How did you manage it?"

But at time of the question Jean-Lazio was literally crying of joy. The rest of the team told him to calm down, but he would not - someone else would have to do the boring, hard part.

OOC: Not sure if a factor of 21 would be absurd at this point.

[V The King]

"I'll step up."

The fairly high pitched voice of Mr. Andrade soared across the room, amid the deaf silence that followed Jean-Lazio's breakdown. At last, things went back to business.

"As you all know, the basics of fusion power require that, for maximum efficiency, we use a combination of Deuterium and Tritium so to create a nuclear reaction with the potential of generating the desired power... Seems quite easy, but it ain't. After all, it is difficult to yield a higher output than the input... which is why we haven't seen any fusion reactors generating electricity for the population at large, eh."

"The principal issue that had to be overcome was confinement. Through the usage of Niobium-tin and as the main material for magnetic confinement (chiefly for toroidal field coils and solenoids), we managed to achieve sufficient levels of confinement, where the highly energetic particles will not escape as well as being subject to centripetal acceleration, meaning they'll be moving in circles and not going anywhere. Also, we've successfully tested several materials that can withstand high temperatures while maintain a quasi-vacuum state within the reactor, so the plasma there can proliferate."

"Given the successful confinement applied by us, it could be only expected that we were able to achieve a very high Q factor. I know my argument is very short, but I don't want to bore any of you with highly detailed specifics, only to have to explain it all over again when the commercial reactor is being built. What do you think, Minister?"

The Minister was pretty sure he managed to follow Andrade's argument. But he was not just 100% convinced:

"Hand the blueprint for the reactor, and allow us to make an inspection of the reactor."

"A'ight", replied Andrade.

And thus the representatives, after they were provided with a detailed plan of the reactor, studied it so to see if Andrade's explanation really flew along with reality. After some time, they put on highly protective clothing and carefully peeked at all parts of the experimental reactor, while asking a plethora of questions on the way - which the scientists promptly provided an explanation for.

Several hours later, the Ministry was apparently convinced by the show that the Committee had put.

"A most outstanding job, gentlemen.", said the Minister to the scientists "I will request funds from the National Treasury at once so to kick off construction for a commercial model. We've got our own ideas in mind, but surely, you *do* have blueprints for potential large-scale fusion reactors?"

"Surely, Monsieur.", replied a recovered Jean-Lazio "Just a minute, s'il vous plaît".

The Frenchman ran upstairs, and came back down a couple minutes later, with dozens of large sheets hanging from his arms.

"Of courrse, I would think about the grand chose," said the scientist. "Here you arre"

Jean-Lazio handed each member of the Committee roughly half-a-dozen blueprints. All of them seemed to be quite thoroughly illustrated and explained, displaying the Committee's commitment to the project (OOC: bad pun).

"Alright, I'd reckon we're done here.", said the Minister. "If there are any issues, or anything that you would like to tell us, do not hesitate to call us (I've already given you our number). You will all be contacted when planning for the actual reactor begins. Cheers!"

And so the representatives shook hands with the scientists, and soon were taking their leave. They left the building, made their way to the train station and awaited for the next train to Nadrink.

OOC: I did extensive research on the subject some two weeks ago, but I forgot to update this thread. I did some more today, and thus I made this post. Hope I didn't leave any fatal flaws hanging around. :<