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Logs - Ramirus and myself


JimKongIl

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At first I decided not to publish this, but I asked Ramirus for permission and it was granted. I am getting a lot of requests to see this and the maximum number of observers for a PM is 15. I know of no better way to post and maintain the quote tags. Due to quote tag limit I will have to post each pm as a blog reply. If something I have said offends, I apologize in advance, I was not planning for this to be public at the time. This is the dialogue from beginning to end.

Didn't IRON accept the first terms and reps offered in this conflict before Gramlins withdrew them?No, in fact there were never terms offered by the Grämlins. Way back in February, IRON came to Matthew and asked him what he thought our terms might be. He guessed at a number. They rejected it (although it hadn't even been offered, merely guessed at).Then, near the end of March, IRON came to accept Matthew's terms. They were told to bugger off.Our Charter requires that the Conclave (Like a Triumvirate) must approve with at least 2 votes, any peace terms offered. No vote was ever even held regarding terms, other than the ones we have ready for IRON now, following their surrender and subsequent demilitarization.Sucks to know the facts only after you've already made a decision, huh?

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Ram has been at most 3rd on the list for a week or two, it's obviously been coming to meet him. My listings are from the 22nd and Ram was next in line then (Folkminister had just been engaged).

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This is all so very sad. I sincerely regret that these actions are being carried out in the name of the Grämlins, once one of the greatest and well respected alliances on Bob. Ram does not deserve to carry the banner of the alliance he has so badly tarnished.

I have to wonder, if Ram felt the old Gov't of Gre was so morally corrupt, why did he join them in the first place and indirectly support that which he believed was immoral?

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He's got a bigger ego than Bilrow or noWedge. I'm impressed.

The Bushido code stuff is hilarious though. If there's anything samurai did, it was buy people off to end wars. People need to learn their history.

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Ramirus Maximus, on 24 June 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

Are you in IRON government? This is a negotiation between leaders.C&G, Umbrella, Polaris, STA, Sparta, and a few others have stated their support, the rest are waiting for it to go through official channels in their .gov, but most have said it'll pass with ease.

Has anyone confirmed this to be fact? Are the leaders of CnG, Umbrella, Polaris, STA, Sparta, and a few others really in support of this amendment to the ESA over the offer of white peace?

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Has anyone confirmed this to be fact? Are the leaders of CnG, Umbrella, Polaris, STA, Sparta, and a few others really in support of this amendment to the ESA over the offer of white peace?

Its a quote from Ram why wouldnt it be true?

"its not a lie if you believe its true Jerry" George Costanza

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When FOK were informed of this, was Ram next on the attack list, or was he a way down that list? If he looked to be next on the list, that would suggest he was scared of being attacked. If lower on the list, it points to a genuineness on his part.

There is no sense in your pursuing this line of logic.

Do any of you really think that we all weren't prepared to fight over this?

At all times we all expected to have wars declared on us by any of the many nations flying the IRON AA.

You're kidding yourself if you think being attacked had anything to do with it. The possibility of all of us going to ZI has been discussed ad nauseum over this issue.

To be quite honest, we discussed seeing who would be open to amending the ESA in mid April; I even personally chatted with Umbrella about arranging a proxy surrender.

Of course, I wasn't .gov at this time so it was just ideas.

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To be quite honest, we discussed seeing who would be open to amending the ESA in mid April; I even personally chatted with Umbrella about arranging a proxy surrender.

Of course, I wasn't .gov at this time so it was just ideas.

He lies about it being in the making for 3 days. MHA only got informed of his intent last night (25th June) AFTER the decleration by Matt Miller.

Way to fail at spinning Ramirus you infra hugging dog.

Yes MPK let’s be honest here. You are telling me that you where discussing amending the ESA in mid April and yet you didn’t discuss it with your only true ally MHA? You talked to Umbrella but not MHA, you talked to FOK but not MHA, this seems a little odd to me and I would have to say not easy to swallow.

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Yes MPK let’s be honest here. You are telling me that you where discussing amending the ESA in mid April and yet you didn’t discuss it with your only true ally MHA? You talked to Umbrella but not MHA, you talked to FOK but not MHA, this seems a little odd to me and I would have to say not easy to swallow.

He wasn't gov at the time and some of the members of Umbrella consider Matt PK a personal friend, regardless of the current situation with the alliance.

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This Ram individual, I believe, is certainly exaggerating his experience within the realm of intl conflict. As one who has taught Int'l conflict for some time I can confidently say he does not quite understand the concept of unconditional surrender. The main violation is that if he was as knowledgeable as he claims to be he would have known that the demand for unconditional surrender will just prolong the conflict, making it much nastier. Case in point as his alliance is being liquidated.

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Yes MPK let’s be honest here. You are telling me that you where discussing amending the ESA in mid April and yet you didn’t discuss it with your only true ally MHA? You talked to Umbrella but not MHA, you talked to FOK but not MHA, this seems a little odd to me and I would have to say not easy to swallow.

I'm telling you that I, personally, floated the idea with Ram. I don't know if it was discussed at .gov levels with MHA and it would not be my place to do so.

However, there has been discussion actively with MHA regarding the whole situation (which has, in my opinion, been consistently and deliberately obstructed by Scutterbug so I am reluctant to acknowledge any of his OWF posts)

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