The GM's Court

[Kankou]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1302488691' post='2688232']
I would like to contest the "stay wiped" part.

First, sorry for the blotched tenses in the original post. I was out of it when I wrote it.

I have rewrote the post according to what it should have been (mostly future-tense) almost at the same time as the surrender, so I do not see the reason for the wipe.
[/quote]

Just to bump this.

EM seems to be open to allowing the editted version, but either way, I'll just wait and accept any final decision.

[Axolotlia]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1302490904' post='2688272']
building a second one is not an option due to geographical issues and [b]foreign oppositions[/b].
[/quote]

Its your sovereignty, you do what you wish with it

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1302495051' post='2688338']
Its your sovereignty, you do what you wish with it
[/quote]
NONE of my land borders the Atlantic Ocean. The St. Lawrence River and its locks and the Great Lakes' locks are too small for any medium sized ships. It's either I spend about one RL year and dozens of billions of dollars in expanding the locks and dredging the river or request for a piece of land that borders the Atlantic Ocean or the Hudson Bay. Essentially I'm landlocked.

Here's my naval development thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100776

I'm confined to one island. The other two islands were too close to the neighboring countries for comfort.

Edited April 11, 2011 by HHAYD

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1302524883' post='2688520']
Essentially I'm landlocked.
[/quote]
There's always the L5 for you.

[Triyun]

[img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/305/spairollsagain.png[/img]

Please give me two spy rolls, first to locate Fizzy's nuclear deterrence. If the first one is successful please roll on mapping out their air traffic and command and control system including radar, control towers, AWAC hangers, etc.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1302579302' post='2689088']
[img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/305/spairollsagain.png[/img]

Please give me two spy rolls, first to locate Fizzy's nuclear deterrence. If the first one is successful please roll on mapping out their air traffic and command and control system including radar, control towers, AWAC hangers, etc.
[/quote]

[img]http://data.treksimming.com/rolls/rollstriyun3.png[/img]

1-10 = fail
11-100 = win

2 wins

[Centurius]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1302488691' post='2688232']
I would like to contest the "stay wiped" part.

First, sorry for the blotched tenses in the original post. I was out of it when I wrote it.

I have rewrote the post according to what it should have been (mostly future-tense) almost at the same time as the surrender, so I do not see the reason for the wipe.
[/quote]

I am willing to allow the post in its current state, however only because EvR has relinquished ooc control.

[Axolotlia]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1302472384' post='2688035']
1 Roll against Fizzy to be able to analyze and spot points of interest (missile sites, radar, strong points, air fields, factories, ports, AA sites, etc.) from the pictures that are coming in through my continuous missions seen here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99270&view=findpost&p=2687763

[IMG]http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz156/JBurman94/Fizzy.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]

Photobucket isnt working so here is a new image:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iUE7e.jpg[/IMG]

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1302668158' post='2689874']
Photobucket isnt working so here is a new image:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/iUE7e.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

[img]http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/mofailla/bluewaffles.jpg?t=1302668663[/img]

You failed the first one hard, but at your IRC request,

[img]http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/mofailla/bluewafflesmod0.jpg?t=1302668663[/img]

you won another try.

[Zoot Zoot]

Right, im calling this out.
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100623&view=findpost&p=2690457

This paticular line,

[quote]To better protect the Vistula, the STNS Kazsub frigate class has been reactivated as units of the navy and set sail into the river to protect it, to assist would be the Rolnik class of Guided missile Vessels[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaszub_class
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Rolnik

Both ships are Corvettes and he has no ships IG.

His argument is that because he says they are rivercraft, they dont count as corvettes and thus doesnt need IG representation.
Ruling?

Edited April 15, 2011 by Zoot Zoot

[AironthFlamewing]

My God, I have never in RP defined what those classes are so they could be anything, they could be armed to the teeth or something simple like they are now. The ships in question (which I am not using IC, just the ship names as classes) are from 1987 and have a draft of 8 foot. They can go up and down the Vistula River in real life and that is what they are used for. To defend the Vistula river and its mouth from attack by enemy ships. The ships in question would not hold up against Zoot's fancy pants battleships or Triyun's or anyone's really they are just non modern, crappy riverine ships that I want to use purely as coastal defense ships..
Compare this to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khukri_class_corvette a ship of the Indian Navy- it is larger, better armed heavier and is generally a more modern ship....l That sir, is a corvette by today's standards the two ship types I linked are nothing more then tiny insignificant flies/

Edited April 15, 2011 by graniteknight

[Executive Minister]

If these ships of MO's have the same capabilities and dimensions of those two RL CORVETTES then yes, you are correct Zoot, MO would need to wipe them.

It is my understanding that MO has explicitly said that those ships of his IC are not identical to those two RL ships. I have no issue with them atm. If those vessels do not have the capabilities of full fledged blue water vessels, they do not need an IG ship present.

I could call an IC ship of mine, the NMS Indestructible with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Patrol_Craft"]these[/url] capabilities an Iowa Class River Battleship, it won't matter, so long as it is not infact a 300m long battleship outfitted to traverse rivers.

EDIT: Sentence got cut off.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Executive Minister

[AironthFlamewing]

Thank you EM, I will now create the actual ship classes I intend to use just using the name of the overall class.

[Michael McBride]

Calling [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100102&view=findpost&p=2691911"]this post[/url] into question for the following reasons:

1) There was never any communication between the Chinese and English that an attack was taking place.
2) There was never any RP of sats over my territory to see the assault.
3) It isn't publicly known that Harland has nukes or WMDs.

For these reasons, I'm asking the post be wiped for using OOC knowledge for IC purposes.

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' timestamp='1303045118' post='2691921']
Calling [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100102&view=findpost&p=2691911"]this post[/url] into question for the following reasons:

1) There was never any communication between the Chinese and English that an attack was taking place.
2) There was never any RP of sats over my territory to see the assault.
3) It isn't publicly known that Harland has nukes or WMDs.

For these reasons, I'm asking the post be wiped for using OOC knowledge for IC purposes.
[/quote]


Point one - Satellites
Point two - See above, there has never been that precedent, I point you to all of Sarguns shens with Artemis.
Point three - I have no idea iCly if you have nukes or not true, but your the former Emperor, holding considerable ammounts of territory, its a safe assumption.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303045453' post='2691922']
Point one - Satellites
Point two - See above, there has never been that precedent, I point you to all of Sarguns shens with Artemis.
Point three - I have no idea iCly if you have nukes or not true, but your the former Emperor, holding considerable ammounts of territory, its a safe assumption.
[/quote]

Actually, if there are unknown sats over my territory, or if they are known to be from a nation that I am not friendly with, I shoot them down. See what I did with Fizzy's sat.

[Zoot Zoot]

Then your shooting down alot of satellites. Oh and I do have two AWAC's in the Atlantic from my base in Maine keeping an eye on stuff. So even if the Satellites are overturned, Ive still got aircraft in the air. Monitering almost a thousand missiles crashing into you.

Secondly, my SKYNET satellites system is a satellite missile defence network, so whilst some sats are over Britain, which I made a specific point of RPing two weeks ago, the other is roaming free making sure Im not gonna get surprise attack by missiles, which is the entire point behind it.

You shot Fizzys sat down because he made a specific point about it, I did not, just like Sargun doesnt but he still seems to see everything with Artemis.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303045808' post='2691925']
Then your shooting down alot of satellites. Oh and I do have two AWAC's in the Atlantic from my base in Maine keeping an eye on stuff. So even if the Satellites are overturned, Ive still got aircraft in the air. Monitering almost a thousand missiles crashing into you.

Secondly, my SKYNET satellites system is a satellite missile defence network, so whilst some sats are over Britain, which I made a specific point of RPing two weeks ago, the other is roaming free making sure Im not gonna get surprise attack by missiles, which is the entire point behind it.

You shot Fizzys sat down because he made a specific point about it, I did not, just like Sargun doesnt but he still seems to see everything with Artemis.
[/quote]

AWACs don't have a radar range of thousands of miles. They have a range of 200-500 miles, tops. So you couldn't be monitoring those missiles.

Secondly, if people don't RP sats over my territory, then they aren't there. If they are RP'd over my territory, then if they are allied to me I ask them to move them, if they aren't I shoot them down. Long standing policy.

Third, I would call shens on Sargun's Artemis stuff over my land the same way I'm calling shens on your stuff over my land now.

[Zoot Zoot]

And the four missile submarines I have dotted up and down your coastline in international waters? I dont need to moniter the missiles hitting you over your turf, I could have seen the Chinese fire them from the ocean.

We'll let the GM's decide, but If im ruled against, I want it to be made the standing rule regarding satellites and not just a case by case basis ruling.

It might be your long standing policy, which I accept because Ive seen you enact it, but the fact remains that the territory your hold and Harlands former positions means theres a large chance he has nukes. Your threats against England et cetera are more than enough justification to evacuation major civilian centers, especially as its been one of my own long standing policies to evacuate people when threatened with war.

So even if im ruled against, Ill just edit out the mention of the Chinese attack.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303046910' post='2691928']
And the four missile submarines I have dotted up and down your coastline in international waters? I dont need to moniter the missiles hitting you over your turf, I could have seen the Chinese fire them from the ocean.

We'll let the GM's decide, but If im ruled against, I want it to be made the standing rule regarding satellites and not just a case by case basis ruling.

It might be your long standing policy, which I accept because Ive seen you enact it, but the fact remains that the territory your hold and Harlands former positions means theres a large chance he has nukes. Your threats against England et cetera are more than enough justification to evacuation major civilian centers, especially as its been one of my own long standing policies to evacuate people when threatened with war.

So even if im ruled against, Ill just edit out the mention of the Chinese attack.
[/quote]

Right... and you only evacuate once I've confirmed in secret IC that Harland in fact HAS nukes and that London is a target.

Give it up man. You had DAYS to evacuate your population centers before I confirmed Harland had nukes. Your attempt to do it now is just pathetic.

In international waters? So 200 nautical miles from my coast? Which means they'd have no way visually to see that even if they WERE surfaced at the time of the attack, and that would be a very small chance since it happened so quickly so there would be a very small chance they saw it on RADAR as well. Seeing as there was no communication between you and the Chinese, it's safe to assume they never saw the attack.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Pravus Ingruo

[Zoot Zoot]

And your attempt to justify your request when I have pretty much just justified every single one of my actions is also pathetic and now because you have nothing else to say you have gone to personal insults, your good old backup method of getting your way.

I dont give a dogs left testicle about London, its not rebuilt and nobody lives in the entire greater London region. You wouldnt kill anyone anyway apart from a few thousand contracters.

You dont need communication between nations to SEE almost 1000 missiles being launched. It takes more than a few minutes to launch 900 missiles unless your expending your entire arsenal in volly like I did to Yawoo when we were at war.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Zoot Zoot

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303047624' post='2691932']
And your attempt to justify your request when I have pretty much just justified every single one of my actions is also pathetic and now because you have nothing else to say you have gone to personal insults, your good old backup method of getting your way.

I dont give a dogs left testicle about London, its not rebuilt and nobody lives in the entire greater London region. You wouldnt kill anyone anyway apart from a few thousand contracters.
[/quote]

What insults? That I said your attempt was pathetic? That's not an insult, that's the truth. And now, you haven't justified a single one of your methods. I've shown you how every single one is WRONG. You haven't proved a single one of yours.

[Centurius]

While I hate to rule on matters that could be solved by just sitting around a table and talking I will make an exception this time.

On several occasions in the past people have rp'd seeing things on satellites without prior rp that the satellites were in the region, as such that established precedent stands and just saying they were in the region after the actual event is sufficient. In addition to that it is reasonable to make some preparations when threatened with war, however evacuations as seen on a scale like this are not within reason and do need to be adapted. That said noone except Pravus Ingruo and rogue state have any way of knowing about the WMDs, without either Harland or PI making this information public it remains secret.

On the final point of the missile launches, just like it's hard to miss entire armies mobilizing it is also hard to miss close to 1,000 missiles being fired.

In essence, the post can stand with some serious downgrades in the amounts of evacuations.

[Zoot Zoot]

Calling somebody pathetic is an insult.

I have justified every action Ive taken and countered your arguments successfully because you have been driven to name calling.
My point stands, in summary.

IF;
My satellites are ruled against for seeing the attacks hitting his land, my sats could of seen the chinese fleet firing 900 missiles at florida.
As for it being too fast too see, Unless Triyun fired every single one of those missiles at the same time of course.

Secondly.

[quote]'The one two punch of the Global Strike Airwing wasn't the end though. Tu-160s had been launched from Alaska flying over the North Pole and over the Atlantic.'[/quote]

Over the Atlantic is perfectly within detection range of my AWAC's and land based radar stations in Svalbard, Franze Josef Land and Maine.

[quote]'The skies of North America would thunder as firing from about 300 kilometers off the coast of DC'[/quote]

DC is 640 miles from Belfast, Maine, as my AWACs are patrolling the southern DPRM waters and the land border, its safe to assume the missiles were picked up on the extreme edge of their radar.

[Michael McBride]

My post is, Cent, the sats wouldn't even be there due to my policy of shooting down sats that aren't mine. Frankly, he's getting around this policy by simply not announcing they are there, which is a gross violation of RP in my opinion. Under those grounds, I'm asking for a reconsideration of the sats ruling.

Further, Triyun didn't mobilize an entire army... he moved three squadrons. The ships were already in the area. And given what those planes were and the speed they were moving, yes, it'd be pretty easy to miss. In fact, from Triyun's post, I think the POINT is that they're supposed to be missed.

To Zoot's last post, you'd see two squadrons of bombers. You wouldn't know where they were headed or what they fired, if anything.

And no, that'd still be out of your AWACs range.

And I called your argument pathetic, not you. Learn to know the difference.