Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1295024672' post='2575172'] AirMe I understand your point, but from my perspective it doesn't work. FAN does not open diplomatic channels when attacked. Our SOP is to recognise the threat and attack it. It has always been that way and whether that is common throughout the world or not, that should be expected from us. In this case there is more at work than what is being seen. Once the threat from MFO was determined, it was handled accordingly. If it had been greater than it turned out to be we were prepared for it. Remember. It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. [/quote] Actually, in this case; it is paranoia. Edited January 14, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezy Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295024131' post='2575165'] Yet you felt the need to punish the entirety of MFO. Am I to assume this how FAN will react to all incidents similar to this? [/quote] This is what I would like to know, would FAN have taken the same "forced diplomatic channels" if this were an alliance with stronger ties.. like lets say MK? or Umbrella? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko Homo Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295023023' post='2575143'] However pleased that I am that the terrorist threat has been neutralised perhaps a little patience from your end may have also avoided this. Do not try and cover up that you escalated this. [/quote] I think FAN will not suffer from this problem anymore. You, however, may still be plagued by it. [img]http://inclusion.semitagui.gov.co/Subjects/GunControl/Humor/NeighborNotArmed.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295024910' post='2575178'] I think FAN will not suffer from this problem anymore. You, however, may still be plagued by it. [img]http://inclusion.semitagui.gov.co/Subjects/GunControl/Humor/NeighborNotArmed.jpg[/img] [/quote] A successful spy operation against our tech levels? You do make me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295024726' post='2575175'] FAN are trying to paint this situation as if MFO as a whole are in the wrong, where as it is simply the case of one rogue nation acting beyond orders. For someone who previously stood up for the little guy you certainly are full of !@#$. [/quote] My response likely would be similar if I caught someone spying on KN, also the terms given to MFO don't punish the whole allaince, they focus on damage done by the individual nation. I've never advocated that all alliances should avoid war with each other and only hold individual nations responsible, what I've been against are when an alliance is forced into agreeing to ridiculous terms using war. I've never had a problem with small skirmishes like this and alliances using their military strength to respond to attacks on their alliance. If MFO or anyone else wants to blame someone for causing the damage to their nations, they can blame the member that decided it was alright to hide in their alliance as they use spy attacks on FAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpol777 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295024788' post='2575176'] Actually, in this case; it is paranoia. [/quote] [quote name='Weezy' timestamp='1295024895' post='2575177'] This is what I would like to know, would FAN have taken the same "forced diplomatic channels" if this were an alliance with stronger ties.. like lets say MK? or Umbrella? [/quote] My crystal ball doesn't work any more and I don't understand your treaty web. I operate on the assumption that at any given time I need to kill the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 If people dislike the standard FAN is setting, then test it and see what they do. Do SOMETHING instead of whining, cause that sure as hell isn't going to stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1295025116' post='2575180'] My response likely would be similar if I caught someone spying on KN, also the terms given to MFO don't punish the whole allaince, they focus on damage done by the individual nation. I've never advocated that all alliances should avoid war with each other and only hold individual nations responsible, what I've been against are when an alliance is forced into agreeing to ridiculous terms using war. I've never had a problem with small skirmishes like this and alliances using their military strength to respond to attacks on their alliance. If MFO or anyone else wants to blame someone for causing the damage to their nations, they can blame the member that decided it was alright to hide in their alliance as they use spy attacks on FAN. [/quote] http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=MFO&anyallexact=exact This punishes the whole alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko Homo Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295024726' post='2575175']You speak as if this was an action sanctioned by MFO Govt. I say you are wrong and that this is the action of a rogue nation. Punishing the entire alliance for the actions of a single rogue will not avoid this happening in the future.[/quote] You say it was a rogue but we waited 48 hours for MFO to tell us it was a rogue and all we got was silence. Well, silence from MFO, our ears were actually filled with the wailing of our children and mothers who had just been violiated. [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295024726' post='2575175']FAN are trying to paint this situation as if MFO as a whole are in the wrong, where as it is simply the case of one rogue nation acting beyond orders.[/quote] See above ^^ [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295024726' post='2575175']Your intelligence is faulty.[/quote] You are now acting as if the spy attack on FAN didn't happen and the offending MFO nation wasn't identified by CN. I'm sorry, but I am finished talking with you as you are obviously deranged. Good Day Sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezy Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1295025278' post='2575182'] My crystal ball doesn't work any more and I don't understand your treaty web. I operate on the assumption that at any given time I need to kill the world. [/quote] So I'll take you avoiding giving a direct answer as a no. Don't get me wrong, I like FAN, and I like the thought of shoot first, ask questions later. Edited January 14, 2011 by Weezy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilCam Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1294988377' post='2574855'] We gave diplomacy a chance to work. We waited. We put out a table with finger sandwiches on it, hoping for a visit. We brushed the hunting dog hair off our suit jackets to look more presentable. We waited. We looked outside, up and down thew street, wondering if they couldn't find out mobile home, no callers, we waited. We looked to see if anyone registered on our forums, possibly couldn't get a mask,. Nope. we waited. Then we realized nobody was coming.[/quote] Love this quote. Love the DoW. Having just dealt with a similar situation, I understand FAN's response. Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war! [img]http://imgur.com/eWYMd.jpg[/img] Edited January 14, 2011 by EvilCam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295025407' post='2575184'] http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=MFO&anyallexact=exact This punishes the whole alliance. [/quote] The peace terms don't though and war is part of CN, if they are afraid of getting into a little bit of war when someone in their alliance attacks another, they should be in peace mode. Although I haven't seen MFO complain about this, instead they resolved it with FAN and took responsibility for their members actions, which I think was a good move from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1295025278' post='2575182'] My crystal ball doesn't work any more and I don't understand your treaty web. I operate on the assumption that at any given time I need to kill the world. [/quote] That does not make his point any less valid. If it was someone more powerful, chances are you would have had a different reaction. Again, you have every right to react however you want to. Just as I have a right to complain about it. Edited January 14, 2011 by AirMe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko Homo Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295025573' post='2575192'] That does not make his point any less valid. If it was someone more powerful, chances are you would have had a different reaction. [/quote] Maybe so, but that then leads to the following question: "if you are weak and friendless, is it a good idea to attack an alliance 15X your strength?" If it makes you guys feel better, just consider this whole episode an "intelligence test" and someone failed miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295025423' post='2575185'] You say it was a rogue but we waited 48 hours for MFO to tell us it was a rogue and all we got was silence. Well, silence from MFO, our ears were actually filled with the wailing of our children and mothers who had just been violiated. [/quote] Their inactivity should have alerted you to the idea that perhaps this was not a government sanctioned attack? Eventually it does get to the point where your paranoia does make you look less like an attentive war general and more like my mad grandfather sitting on the porch with his shotgun talking about "them damn aliens" shooting wildly at anyone who comes within his line of fire. [quote] You are now acting as if the spy attack on FAN didn't happen and the offending MFO nation wasn't identified by CN. I'm sorry, but I am finished talking with you as you are obviously deranged. Good Day Sir. [/quote] It was a dig at your...nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295025790' post='2575193'] Maybe so, but that then leads to the following question: "if you are weak and friendless, is it a good idea to attack an alliance 15X your strength?" If it makes you guys feel better, just consider this whole episode an "intelligence test" and someone failed miserably. [/quote] You act like it was a coordinated attack on FAN. It wasn't. It was the rogue action of one member. You are right, the guy who spied was an idiot. And perhaps a proper response would have been to FANpile the offender instead of the whole alliance. Hell, even I'd be hailing you if you had chosen that course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpol777 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295025790' post='2575193'] Maybe so, but that then leads to the following question: "if you are weak and friendless, is it a good idea to attack an alliance 15X your strength?" [/quote] If they need to be attacked, then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko Homo Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1295025332' post='2575183'] If people dislike the standard FAN is setting, then test it and see what they do. Do SOMETHING instead of whining, cause that sure as hell isn't going to stop them. [/quote] Careful Z3, your bias is showing through! Also love that you are in NEW and are acting all indignant about our actions in defending ourselves after what you guys just pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpol777 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295025920' post='2575195'] You act like it was a coordinated attack on FAN. It wasn't. It was the rogue action of one member. [/quote] Hindsight 20/20 and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295025790' post='2575193'] Maybe so, but that then leads to the following question: "if you are weak and friendless, is it a good idea to attack an alliance 15X your strength?" If it makes you guys feel better, just consider this whole episode an "intelligence test" and someone failed miserably. [/quote] Hint: It's not who you think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1295026007' post='2575199'] Hindsight 20/20 and all that. [/quote] If you acknowledge that, you could always drop the reparations. The kids have had their beating, they've "learned" their lesson. (this is of course not to say I find the reparations unreasonable or anything of the sort. It would be a nice gesture is all I am saying) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko Homo Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295025873' post='2575194'] [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295025423' post='2575185']Good Day Sir.[/quote]It was a dig at your...nevermind.[/quote] [b][size="6"][i]I said GOOD DAY![/i][/size][/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295025873' post='2575194'] Their inactivity should have alerted you to the idea that perhaps this was not a government sanctioned attack? Eventually it does get to the point where your paranoia does make you look less like an attentive war general and more like my mad grandfather sitting on the porch with his shotgun talking about "them damn aliens" shooting wildly at anyone who comes within his line of fire. [/quote] Weren't you the one that was arguing that NEW shouldn't resolve their raids on DF diplomatically and be more violent to avoid stagnation? Now you seem to be arguing the opposite and that everyone needs to play nice and war is bad except as a last resort if diplomacy fails... Johnny Apocalypse before the NEW war (http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95901), "I want leaders worldwide to start doing dirty deeds and pissing all the wrong people off. I want to see the propaganda. I want to destroy and to be destroyed." If you don't like what they did to MFO, Umbrella could of activated their ODP and you could be fighting a war right now. FAN essentially acted here how you were saying more alliances should act in order to avoid stagnation, but this was only a one sided war because NOIR was being useless. FAN couldn't of predicted whether NOIR would be used, but they managed to pull off a swift victory regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295026250' post='2575204'] [b][size="6"][i]I said GOOD DAY![/i][/size][/b] [/quote] Very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295025997' post='2575198'] Careful Z3, your bias is showing through! Also love that you are in NEW and are acting all indignant about our actions in defending ourselves after what you guys just pulled. [/quote] My profile info might not reflect what AA I actually am in. You also have me completely wrong, I don't care what you do, I don't care that people flock to your announcements. I just dislike those that will !@#$%* about them, but take absolutely no action because you have built your alliance with a nice stockpile of nuclear warheads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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