Rogue yellow team senator

[JWConner]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294520753' post='2568824']
Penkala's games? I think you missed the point where VE will answer an attack against a member, if you have a senator who is so thin skinned an in game PM can make him do something this stupid, you have the problem not VE.



Oh it absolutely is an act of war, you wanna test that? Ask NSO what 6mil in aid bought them. You are just fortunate VE is generous when it comes to diplomatic resolutions before we go for the nukes.



Well then I suggest you teach your (old, you AA hopper you:P) senator how not to be criminally stupid in carrying out his duties in the future, you blame penkala for being sanctioned as if he had complete control of another team's senator's actions.

[/quote]

Lol, did you really just call me an alliance hopper? Really? You should really go on tour or something. Freakin hilarious.

And no, it's not an act of war, no matter how try to word it. If you or anyone calls that an act of war you're delusional. Also, trying to use the NSO ordeal as an example is laughable, at best. Do you have someone write this stuff for you or do you just make it up as it pops into your head?

I'm begging you, just stop while you're behind. You are making this way too easy. Go ask one of the more informed people to talk for you in the future, you're seriously making my chest hurt from laughing so much.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294520753' post='2568824']
Oh it absolutely is an act of war, you wanna test that? Ask NSO what 6mil in aid bought them. You are just fortunate VE is generous when it comes to diplomatic resolutions before we go for the nukes.
[/quote]

A muddled precedent of which I know you are not ignorant. There have been resolutions over far greater issues than 6m. Even under similar circumstances. You are better than selective citations TypoNinja. I know you.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294521658' post='2568843']
Lol, did you really just call me an alliance hopper? Really? You should really go on tour or something. Freakin hilarious.

And no, it's not an act of war, no matter how try to word it. If you or anyone calls that an act of war you're delusional. Also, trying to use the NSO ordeal as an example is laughable, at best. Do you have someone write this stuff for you or do you just make it up as it pops into your head?

I'm begging you, just stop while you're behind. You are making this way too easy. Go ask one of the more informed people to talk for you in the future, you're seriously making my chest hurt from laughing so much.
[/quote]
A member of VA initiated a hostile act against a member of VE. That is an act of war. We aren't delusional so much as you are either trying to be or are an idiot. I understand how you must want to try to make your incompetent ex-alliance look not so bad, but all you are doing is digging a hole deeper and deeper.

[Penkala]

Another victory against VA for Penkala.

[Bryne Farrior]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294470912' post='2568406']
Was it an act of war? Absolutely not. It's a 3 day sanction that causes absolutely NO damage to any party.
[/quote]

It seems you don't really grasp the concept of aid-slot efficiency. Time is money, amigo.

Now, of course, you don't go around declaring wars on people who are late with tech payments. The difference here is intent. The senator was clearly acting maliciously towards Penkala, harming his nation's economy, and thus harming Viridia in the process. The amount of actual damage caused is irrelevant, it's the reasoning behind it.

I'd call that an act of war. I guess you could call me "delusional" for that, but then I'd just call you "dumb".

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294503148' post='2568620']
That's a dirty trick bringing a respected and retired MHA member into the conversation when he can't come in and clarify things, Haf. The slur against my character is fun, too, but you should think about that: even if I [i]was[/i] a politically scheming propagandist, why would I want to make GGA (an alliance which was my enemy for most of our shared time in CN) look better? But it's pretty hilarious that you're trying to argue with me about something which happened when I was in Grämlins government and involved in the decision. Either you're lying or twisting WCR's words, or WCR had misunderstood something.
[/quote]
It's not my fault that WCR, like all the rest of that great generation of MHA leadership, has left this world. I wouldn't have named him except that, well, he's no longer here, and I don't need to protect his privacy anymore.

So you're really trying to tell me that you were unaware of the GGA's desire to declare war on Grämlins, plans which VE government were fully aware of and did nothing to stop? You know, the planned war which was supported by the Polars (then allied to the GGA through One Vision), which was later on used as propaganda to convince the Citadel that the Polars were plotting against the Grämlins as well as TOP?

Also, you're not trying to make the GGA look better. Hell, they don't even exist anymore (thank the heavens for small favours). You're trying to put all the bad things ever done by Green alliances into a box, label it GGA, and pretend that you're angels.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294503148' post='2568620']
None of which has anything to do with sanctions, by the way, and only a fairly tenuous of links to VE (in that they were a UJA signatory).
[/quote]
Considering that the GGA's CB was directly tied to the fact that Grämlins hadn't signed UJA, it's a pretty close tie. I wouldn't have even mentioned this incident except that the UJA was brought up in this thread as an example of the lovely things that the VE has done for their team.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294520753' post='2568824']
This is my point about feasting on your own propaganda so long you lose touch with reality. Somebody refresh my memory, what was that NPO policy that stood for years, something about them owning the team, nobody else could live there?

Red's had lots of fail micros over the years, who NPO never bothered enforcing that policy in because they were too small to matter. Even their own policy recognized that micro's under a certain size weren't worth the effort.
[/quote]
I am aware that the VE does not consider alliances of under a certain size worth considering. Some of the rest of us disagree.

Do you know who Blackwater are? They would be one of those fail micros, btw.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294520753' post='2568824']
I even remember several startups flocking to red once we Karma, along with a bunch of bawwing that nobody would ever dare defy NPO's policy if they weren't in the middle of a losing war. That same doctrine was repealed in NPO's surrender terms too.
[/quote]
Yes, the Moldavi Doctrine was repealed in NPO's surrender terms. You won't find me complaining about that.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294520753' post='2568824']
So tell us again how red is a paragon of diversity and acceptance? Or are you going to claim that NPO's actions after Karma, when they know they'd have gotten rolled for trying to kick people off red, mean anything at all? Its easy to not act like an ass when you know nobody will let you get away with it.
[/quote]
Do you have any idea who the alliances on red are?

I'm guessing you know about CoJ, us, and NPO. That's it right?

[Bob Janova]

You do realise that if we actually thought GGA would have declared war on us, we'd have had a unanimous vote to stay on Green, right? People were sick of the political games, but saying Grämlins were forced off Green is like saying you were forced off Purple. Any real prospect of a war against GGA would have had us (and probably most of Citadel) salivating, not running away.

The CB on Polar (from Grämlins point of view, each alliance had a slightly different beef with them) was that they supported various planned and actual GGA shens, indeed. Congratulations on bringing up yet another irrelevant point.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294525595' post='2568900']
You do realise that if we actually thought GGA would have declared war on us, we'd have had a unanimous vote to stay on Green, right? People were sick of the political games, but saying Grämlins were forced off Green is like saying you were forced off Purple. Any real prospect of a war against GGA would have had us (and probably most of Citadel) salivating, not running away.
[/quote]
The hilarious part of course is that it was the NPO who stopped the war. Well... probably stopped. GGA was still trying to get support when Grämlins moved to Aqua, cutting off their whole "Plotting Against Green" CB, and causing them to figure out how to blame Polar for their insanity.

(And no, we weren't forced off Purple. Certain parties were extremely happy to see us go, but that's not the same thing.)

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294525595' post='2568900']
The CB on Polar (from Grämlins point of view, each alliance had a slightly different beef with them) was that they supported various planned and actual GGA shens, indeed. Congratulations on bringing up yet another irrelevant point.
[/quote]
Yes, it's safe to say that there were few GGA treaty partners who did not suffer some negative consequences from the experience.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294526237' post='2568912']
(And no, we weren't forced off Purple. Certain parties were extremely happy to see us go, but that's not the same thing.)
[/quote]
Since you seem to have missed the point, BobbyJ was saying that neither Gramlins nor Invicta were 'forced' to change teams,

[Penkala]

Hey Haflinger, none of that has to do with VA or VA's senator. Knock it off. Stop being annoying.

[JWConner]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294523319' post='2568870']
A member of VA initiated a hostile act against a member of VE. That is an act of war. We aren't delusional so much as you are either trying to be or are an idiot. I understand how you must want to try to make your incompetent ex-alliance look not so bad, but all you are doing is digging a hole deeper and deeper.
[/quote]

Nah, you're delusional. I'm not the one saying that delaying a tech deal by 3 days is an act of war. That would be you. And just because you say it doesn't make it true.

Also, what hole? I don't see any hole. Please, tell me what hole I'm digging and how it's getting any deeper. All I see is someone talking a lot and doing very little

[Penkala]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294526817' post='2568930']
Nah, you're delusional. I'm not the one saying that delaying a tech deal by 3 days is an act of war. That would be you. And just because you say it doesn't make it true.

Also, what hole? I don't see any hole. Please, tell me what hole I'm digging and how it's getting any deeper. All I see is someone talking a lot and doing very little
[/quote]

Please have TPF touch me so that I can make you ragequit from another alliance because they agree to pay me reps.

[JWConner]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294526913' post='2568933']
Please have TPF touch me so that I can make you ragequit from another alliance because they agree to pay me reps.
[/quote]

Wow, being delusional must be a VE thing. That or you infected them. Either way.

And if they paid you reps, then I clearly made the right decision to leave them. And FYI, there's absolutely nothing you could do to make me choose to join or leave an alliance. My choices are my choices. I'd expect that you, of all people, would know how stubborn I am.

Anyways, once you're able to get into my range, I'll be happy to drop my AA and come and play with you. Til then, I'll just have to enjoy your visions of grandeur and your lil quips about how you're so great and blah blah blah. You're always good for a laugh lolpenkala, if nothing else.

So with that, *$@# you and have a nice day!

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294527444' post='2568942']
Wow, being delusional must be a VE thing. That or you infected them. Either way.

And if they paid you reps, then I clearly made the right decision to leave them. And FYI, there's absolutely nothing you could do to make me choose to join or leave an alliance. My choices are my choices. I'd expect that you, of all people, would know how stubborn I am.

[b]Anyways, once you're able to get into my range, I'll be happy to drop my AA and come and play with you. Til then, I'll just have to enjoy your visions of grandeur and your lil quips about how you're so great and blah blah blah. You're always good for a laugh lolpenkala, if nothing else.

So with that, *$@# you and have a nice day![/b]
[/quote]


He is pretty great, look how annoyed you are, LAWL.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294526817' post='2568930']
Nah, you're delusional. I'm not the one saying that delaying a tech deal by 3 days is an act of war. That would be you. And just because you say it doesn't make it true.

Also, what hole? I don't see any hole. Please, tell me what hole I'm digging and how it's getting any deeper. All I see is someone talking a lot and doing very little
[/quote]
It isn't the 3 days late on a tech deal, it is the cause of that, the sanction. Christ are you thick.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294527444' post='2568942']
You're always good for a laugh lolpenkala, if nothing else.
[/quote]
That's about all you are good for too! Thinking isn't your strong suit, that's for sure.

[JWConner]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294527563' post='2568945']
It isn't the 3 days late on a tech deal, it is the cause of that, the sanction. Christ are you thick.
[/quote]

I've put on a little wait, but that's no reason to call me thick, geez.

And I fully understand that he was sanctioned. How about you understand my point. The only effect of the sanction was a 3 day hold on a tech deal. Do you comprehend, or shall I write in crayon with big letters?

My point is, there was absolutely NO HARM DONE. NONE.

If there was, show it to me. I'd love to see it.

That said, it seems as if things have cleared up now. VA, unfortunately, has done what I figured it would. Penkala gets another laugh at that government.

That said, it's rather pathetic that people made such a big deal out of something that caused absolutely NO HARM. It inconvenienced a few people and hurt a few egos. Get over it.

Just sad all around.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294527830' post='2568950']
I've put on a little wait, but that's no reason to call me thick, geez.

And I fully understand that he was sanctioned. How about you understand my point. The only effect of the sanction was a 3 day hold on a tech deal. Do you comprehend, or shall I write in crayon with big letters?

My point is, there was absolutely NO HARM DONE. NONE.

If there was, show it to me. I'd love to see it.

That said, it seems as if things have cleared up now. VA, unfortunately, has done what I figured it would. Penkala gets another laugh at that government.

That said, it's rather pathetic that people made such a big deal out of something that caused absolutely NO HARM. It inconvenienced a few people and hurt a few egos. Get over it.

Just sad all around.
[/quote]
Allow me to rephrase, its not the harm, its the attempt to cause it.

[JWConner]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294527618' post='2568946']
That's about all you are good for too! Thinking isn't your strong suit, that's for sure.
[/quote]

Clearly I do more thinking on my own than you do. I am not part of a group-think party that believes this is some travesty that needs being resolved. But hey, once an idiot, always an idiot. (i'll wait for the "NO U" response here in a bit).

Fact is, you made a mountain out of a mole hill because Penkala through a hissy fit. It's expected, because you all lack the ability to tell Penkala to shut up and get over it. It was never an act of war nor did it hurt anyone. Was it stupid, absolutely. Did it affect absolutely anything or affect anyone's nations? Not at all. It was an inconvenience. It could have been settled with an apology and everyone moved on but you were butthurt and had to get redemption.

Just goes to show how petty you people really are.

[JWConner]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1294527561' post='2568944']
He is pretty great, look how annoyed you are, LAWL.
[/quote]

Who are you? Go play with your legos and leave this to the big kids, mmkay?

[Penkala]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294528071' post='2568953']
Clearly I do more thinking on my own than you do. I am not part of a group-think party that believes this is some travesty that needs being resolved. But hey, once an idiot, always an idiot. (i'll wait for the "NO U" response here in a bit).

Fact is, you made a mountain out of a mole hill because Penkala through a hissy fit. It's expected, because you all lack the ability to tell Penkala to shut up and get over it. It was never an act of war nor did it hurt anyone. Was it stupid, absolutely. Did it affect absolutely anything or affect anyone's nations? Not at all. It was an inconvenience. It could have been settled with an apology and everyone moved on but you were butthurt and had to get redemption.

Just goes to show how petty you people really are.
[/quote]

It was an act of war.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294528071' post='2568953']
Clearly I do more thinking on my own than you do. I am not part of a group-think party that believes this is some travesty that needs being resolved. But hey, once an idiot, always an idiot. (i'll wait for the "NO U" response here in a bit).

Fact is, you made a mountain out of a mole hill because Penkala through a hissy fit. It's expected, because you all lack the ability to tell Penkala to shut up and get over it. It was never an act of war nor did it hurt anyone. Was it stupid, absolutely. Did it affect absolutely anything or affect anyone's nations? Not at all. It was an inconvenience. It could have been settled with an apology and everyone moved on but you were butthurt and had to get redemption.

Just goes to show how petty you people really are.
[/quote]
Just because my opinion happens to align with that of others does not make me some sort of think groupie. All that you needed to do was say, "Whoops, our senator screwed the pooch. Sorry about that, here is a token thing of aid for his stupidity!" and this whole !@#$storm would have been done. Instead you are trying to argue that everything thing should be ignored because a)its Penkala b)no real harm came out of it. You're just whining because you know Penkala got you again because of your own senators thin skin.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294528228' post='2568955']
Who are you? Go play with your legos and leave this to the big kids, mmkay?
[/quote]


LAWL is that your best attempt? You really are 12 or something. Also I'm pretty well known, I just don't tend to chat to idiots like yourself. But keep on trucking boy. You are doing a swell job of making yourself look stupid and childish, with the intellect of a spider monkey. No slur intended to monkeys.

Do you have a pull cord coming out your back?

[JWConner]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294528459' post='2568961']
Just because my opinion happens to align with that of others does not make me some sort of think groupie. All that you needed to do was say, "Whoops, our senator screwed the pooch. Sorry about that, here is a token thing of aid for his stupidity!" and this whole !@#$storm would have been done. Instead you are trying to argue that everything thing should be ignored because a)its Penkala b)no real harm came out of it. You're just whining because you know Penkala got you again because of your own senators thin skin.
[/quote]


It doesn't affect me in the least. While it's popular opinion that I was forced out or that Penkala ran me from VA, I left due to things that were completely unrelated to this incident. Things that had been in the works for months. It was merely coincidence I left when this crap was going on.

My point was that who it was (Penkala) and what damage it did (none) does come into play. The fact that it was put on the OWF is why it's been made into any issue. If it was anyone else, it would have been handled in private with most likely an apology and the sanction removed. But since it was Penkala, it was made into a huge ordeal, in public view. Don't try and pretend that if this was anyone else it would have been as big of an issue. I truly hope you're not that naive.

My points stand. No harm done on any front. Diplomatic incidents should always be handled in private first, and if unresolved, then go public. There was no intent on VA's part, but instead the act of one person. Just as a rogue tech raid isn't an act of war, neither was this. In fact, a rogue tech raid causes more damage and is usually handled much more professionally and diplomatically than this was. This was poor diplomacy on the part of VE and that should have been taken into consideration.

Please, dispute me here, I'd love to hear how I'm wrong.

[Penkala]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294529039' post='2568975']
Just as a rogue tech raid isn't an act of war, neither was this. In fact, a rogue tech raid causes more damage and is usually handled much more professionally and diplomatically than this was.
[/quote]

What? Of course it is. If a VA nation tech raided me they'd be paying reps too. What fantasy land do you live in? The pre-Karma one where your treaty with TPF let you do whatever you wanted?