The Dolomus Files

[Vend3tta]

[quote name='Ardus' date='28 June 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1277765885' post='2353291']
The reasoning was that attacking a professed "neutral" would incur massive backlash during a period of cold war and possibly result in a global war from a poor PR position. Nobody wanted to hand what would become Aegis the neutrals on a silver platter. We didn't care, it was the most clear-cut CB somebody could have asked for, and we wanted blood. We actually threatened to go it alone and were willing to do so--VE was more top heavy, could land a first strike, and actually had war experience. I don't recall what prevented us from doing so.
[/quote]
Philo and Dilber talked Egore down. I was not happy about it.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Vend3tta' date='29 June 2010 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1277789867' post='2353644']
Philo and Dilber talked Egore down. I was not happy about it.
[/quote]
None of us were. [b]None[/b] of us.

[Cornelius]

Hell, I'm supposedly the hippy of the alliance, and I hated that we didn't roll /b/ then. Especially considering they went ahead and rolled us themselves right after during GW3.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Cornelius' date='29 June 2010 - 02:58 AM' timestamp='1277794685' post='2353704']
Hell, I'm supposedly the hippy of the alliance, and I hated that we didn't roll /b/ then. Especially considering they went ahead and rolled us themselves right after during GW3.
[/quote]
Well, they tried to at the very least. "Rolled" suggests a degree of success.

[Vend3tta]

[quote name='Ardus' date='28 June 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1277792348' post='2353681']
None of us were. [b]None[/b] of us.
[/quote]
Philo always had a way of influencing Egore. He actually thought the OE was a great and groundbreaking idea, if I remember correctly, which influenced Egore's attitude on the project and I think gave him a sense of approval from the NPO.

[Cornelius]

[quote name='Ardus' date='29 June 2010 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1277821106' post='2353917']
Well, they tried to at the very least. "Rolled" suggests a degree of success.
[/quote]
You're right, I guess "attacked" would be a better term.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Bergerland' date='29 June 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1277785540' post='2353602']
I agree. My main point was that Ardus is not the current Lord of Viridia, and hasn't been for some time, and that his past actions shouldn't reflect so strongly on our membership. In all honesty he probably fits the profile of your typical Shroomer more than he does the typical Viridian, which is probably why he's there and not in VE.
[/quote]
I've been in the Kingdom's government. I can assure you that there have been countless times where my views ran contrary to what became policy, both while I was in government (before and through Karma) and in my time as a general member. Sometimes I've been proven right, sometimes I've been proven wrong. As a whole the alliance is more idealistic than I am, but there's a healthy mix of strategy and idealism in here. I'm here because I'm enjoying myself and I like the people.

[Bob Sanders]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='21 June 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1277135991' post='2345257']
CnG wouldn't exist today had I and a few others taken this attitude. And NPO would probably still be in power if no one had broken from playing the realpolitik game, as we did. NPO was much better at that game than anyone else, and the rules had to be changed in a fundamental way for Karma to even happen. Had it not been for the example of C&G disregarding the established rules of politics, with every alliance in it willing to be hit until disbandment just to claw at the Enemy on the way down and [b]not let our friends die alone[/b]... Had it not been for the sacrifices and spying of the leaders of Vox Populi, which helped break up the Continuum by kicking the natural paranoia of its signatories into high gear... Had it not been for FAN, stubbornly refusing to die or beg NPO to be allowed to live...
[/quote]
Are you currently allied to any alliance that has attacked a mutual ally without consulting you? Seriously? The VE cancellation on NpO was as standard and obvious as it gets.

[quote]Had it not been for an alliance called Sparta seeing something special in what a small and broken alliance called Athens had just done, and [b]choosing to ally us and abandon realpolitik themselves[/b]...

Then the world would have never changed.

Without the broad support from everyone that ended up being Karma, that war would have most likely been just the stomping of Superfriends and their allies.[/quote]

That was realpolitick, Sparta had made their decision to fight against Q and NPO in the next war which became known as Karma. Along the same realpolitick vein they choose to stay in Q and function as stool pigeons. Don't believe me? Just look at my sig.


[quote name='Bob Janova' date='25 June 2010 - 07:31 AM' timestamp='1277469085' post='2349937']
You cannot be serious.

[OOC: If you want to read that in a John McEnroe voice, go right ahead.]

VE has quite a record of putting itself in politically rather difficult places because of its idealism, both before and since Ardus's Lordship. It's true that after the Viridicide – getting killed because of pure idealism – we necessarily added an element of pragmatism to our approach, and while I wasn't here at the time, the choice between coming back under the NPO's wing and Algae Accords or not coming back at all should be obvious, even if it offends the pure idealists. VE was one of the first alliances to break cover and cancel ties with the Hegemony in the build-up to Karma, a very dangerous political move, and completely counter to the 'realpolitik' move at that time.

(That's the cue for Hal to come in and say that it was an obvious Karma victory from 1995 onward so I'll just pre-empt that by pointing out now that it wasn't obvious until after the war had started and Hegemony (i) screwed up their deployment and timing and (ii)[b] alienated NpO, MHA, TOP and Sparta into not following their ties.[/b] When VE cancelled, Citadel and SF were still firmly tied into NPO MDPs and Continuum was still mostly together.)
[/quote]
I'll give you a possible on NpO. MHA and Sparta were firmly committed to leaving Q and fighting against it for months. TOP claims that they wavered but I don't believe them. Your entire post is delusional drivel meant to further the insane myth that Karma was a spontaneous defense of OV. It was a planned military trap and the trigger was not relevant, the next war that NPO declared was getting the same response. The trigger just happened to be OV.

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='25 June 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1277505207' post='2350409']
The cancellations were purposefully dragged out over the course of two weeks to give the impression of increasing isolation on NPO's part, which is just to say that we thought it'd be funny and have more impact than a mass cancel.
[/quote]
Well played. Thank you for not spewing fairy tales like the two other guys I quoted.

[im317]

before i start talking let me point out that i am no longer a member or VE, and that i am not nor have i ever been a government member of RIA.

[quote name='hawk_11' date='20 June 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1277091959' post='2344592']
I'd like to continue, but this is more than a year in the past and, at the time, a fair amount of it happened above my pay-grade. I still feel more could have been done though.
[/quote]

at that time it was all VE's government could do to keep the membership from constantly attacking NPO publicly. granted not all of the membership was against NPO but a lot of us were including most of the influential non government members. i dare say that even a decree from Admin himself that we kiss and make up could not have saved the relationship(note that i have no clue what that relationship is like now)


[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='20 June 2010 - 10:59 PM' timestamp='1277092777' post='2344631']
[color="#0000FF"]I'm saying you're a lot more responsible for it than you'd like to admit. The NPO didn't really take part in it. They simply sat by. VE on the other hand enable Andromeda to do what it did, and the VE also took an active role in helping. You can bring up the NPO as much as you'd like, but face it, LoFN's blood is on your hands and VE's. Not the NPO's. Not this time.[/color]
[/quote]

my memory on what Ephy said he did on his own and what he said he did by order of NPO is not very clear so this part is a tad less detailed. sufficient to say that at least half the stuff Ephy did was following orders from his handler in NPO, up until when he asked to do something(i forget what)which GGA then asked NPO to not let him do. at the very least NPO let him fake the logs, at the worst he did it to carry out there orders. key to point out that NPO used Ephy via there handler to do stuff they didn't want to be directly tied to. as i lack a lot of the knowledge on the subject i will go no further then saying that Ephy was at least in part a NPO tool that bordered on NPO spying(if Ephys handler wants to he clarify but i wouldn't hold your breath)


before i go i will clarify the issue of VE and sanctioning during Karma. there was some mis-communication with VEs senator at the time, VE parliament became aware it was happening when Sooner got on irc and had a fit over Mary having been sanctioned(i wish i had the logs of that) the VE senator was verbally ripped a new one for it(wish i had those logs too) and was told to stop.

im done now and will not be posting in this thread any more. oh another disclaimer i embody the words in the name RI as i read this on a random whim and i may well be insane.