Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 So you're saying if one member from Athens raided one member from Unprotected Micro Alliance X, it is one hundred percent acceptable for that raided alliance to declare war on Athens and proceed to declare wars against everyone but the one that committed the act of raiding? Without attempting to talk to see what was up? Of course its 100% acceptable. The only requirement for it to be 100% acceptable, is for them to do it. I have no place trying to force upon someone what is acceptable and what is not. If the raided nation had a clue as to our recent mishaps, and came to the conclusion that dealing with us diplomatically would be unfruitful, yeah, I would completely understand that. I am under no delusions that the honus is now on Athens to reshape its image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I don't think anyone is challenging R-LIMBO's right to enact stupid policies that end in severe harm to them. We are merely commenting on just how stupid the policy is, and is no replacement at all for allies. For perspective of their 11 nations in war mode, 10 are in anarchy. They have accomplished nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Rush Sykes if you were in their position would you have done the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Clearly RLMMO should have went to the raiders and accepted a token sum of cash to allow their soveriegnty to be stomped all over. After all, this is the "accepted practice" on this planet. Every time any situation arises on this planet, people rush into the discussion seeking to wrap everything up to into a nice neat little package as to how it should be dealt with. I, for one, applaud this course of action by RLMMO. Entities outside of RLMMO have no business whatsoever imposing their "standards" on RLMMO, or anyone else for that matter. It is not a stretch, nor an unreasonable conclusion, in the eyes of RLMMO, given who the raiding alliances were, that they would be summarily dismissed. It seems reasonable to me, that RLMMO believed that so long as they fell into the raiding alliances' "accepted" size to be ok for raids, that more raids would be in their future. I believe that RLMMO felt that this was the only logical course of action. Of course, most people won't bother to take an impartial look at it, because, they did not follow the "standards." And, we all know, that "standards" are a must. Watching all of the boasting of the military prowess by the side that has numbers almost Hegemonomical-like on their side, is both classy and reminiscent...which is a good thing...it is always good to remind the world of why things happen as they do. That being said, carry on with your war. Final note, to all of those people using ROFL, or LMMAO..Or any of the other disrespectful twistings on RLMMO's name, show just a little bit of class and respect. You are neither cute, nor funny. I'm reminded why I love Athens and why I am enjoying fighting Jack Diorno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Basically what Sardonic said. They can do what they want and I don't particularly have too much of a problem with how dumb the decision was. It just doesn't make any sense to me, even from their perspective, to attack nations that had not attacked them without first coming to Kronos diplomatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 You are implying that RLMMO had a plan, from what I have heard and seen they dont have any sort of plan at all. Well unless you count a pointless suicide rush. Yes, I clearly implied they had a plan. Reading comprehension FTW! I said it is perfectly reasonable to look at a war screen, see who is raiding, and then determining, based on reputations and past actions, whether or not a trip down the diplomacy lane, would be worth it. Lets face it, if the raid was legal, and they came seeking a diplomatic solution, and even if they got one...future raids would STILL be legal. Its not unthinkable that they would come to the conclusion that all 14 of them are probably destined to be raided anyways. So, they decided to cut out all the intermediary nonsense and take the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 So you're saying if one member from Athens raided one member from Unprotected Micro Alliance X, it is one hundred percent acceptable for that raided alliance to declare war on Athens and proceed to declare wars against everyone but the one that committed the act of raiding? Without attempting to talk to see what was up? Puppet, you know my view, if your goverment authorizes such attacks via it's charter or personal approval then the alliance accepts responsibility for it. If you authorized spying on an alliance and one guy did it, your alliance suffers. Aggression is aggression, and as long as your goverment authorizes it it is being done by the alliance and not one member. A tech raided target could infact attack two smaller members in the alliance that is attacking him if he has no chance in doing harm to his attacker, because you've authorized the attack and all in the alliance are to be held accountable for it. I don't know why Kronos .gov don't take responsibility for what they permit their membership to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) So you're saying if one member from Athens raided one member from Unprotected Micro Alliance X, it is one hundred percent acceptable for that raided alliance to declare war on Athens and proceed to declare wars against everyone but the one that committed the act of raiding? Without attempting to talk to see what was up? It has absolutely nothing too do with the amount of raiders. They are making a point across all of Cybernation. Whether or not they relinquish their actions will be decided further down the road. This is what an alliance should do when raided. I for one do condone raiding, but when this is their solution more power to them. They are preventing you from gaining profit and forcing you too rethink your raiding policy. (Now the GOONS have a different view on war so this statement does not apply to them) Edit:Grammar Also FYI The purposes of a raid may include: * to demoralize, confuse, or exhaust an enemy * to ransack or pillage a location * to obtain property or capture people * to destroy goods or other things with an economic value * to free POWs * to kill or capture specific people * to gather intelligence. Edited December 4, 2009 by Tick1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) I don't think anyone is challenging R-LIMBO's right to enact stupid policies that end in severe harm to them. We are merely commenting on just how stupid the policy is, and is no replacement at all for allies.For perspective of their 11 nations in war mode, 10 are in anarchy. They have accomplished nothing. What are accomplishments measured in exactly? And who exactly are you, a member of an alliance who earlier in this thread, reiterated that pixels mean nothing to you (a view I happen to share, by the way), to measure what someone else's accomplishments. They have lost pixels, which by your own definition, mean nothing. What exactly is it that makes them have accomplished nothing, if they have lost nothing? Edit on accomplishments.... Athens was utterly decimated in the noCB war. I believe at the time that terms were signed, we were 42 members, all in anarchy I believe. We clearly accomplished nothing. I hope that puts what I am trying to say into perspective. Edited December 4, 2009 by Rush Sykes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 If there was ever any question of our diplomatic willingness to resolve rogue actions peaceably, ask any of the numerous people we have resolved issues with. Of course we probably wouldn't have paid reps, as their alliance isn't connected to anybody important, but we might have let them go. At least once they got a proper protectorate agreement with somebody anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zearth Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Reps? nah honestly that was not even in the matrix. Here is the thing that Rush Sykes touched on and I think people are not understanding very well. As your resident alien hanging out in the swamps of south america I will atempt to explain this. First off: you can call this tiff what ever you like, we don't care. sorry. Second: "most" of RLMMO I think I can say safely, are much more interested in seeing you all posture and pose in your stances about how high and righteous over this you are. Again to be honest I have a feeling "most" of my group in RLMMO does NOT care, some I am willing to bet you a plasma torpedeo fuse are laughing about all of this. (IT IS A GAME NOT REAL LIFE) On a personal note: I find it interesting that you all honestly expect everyone to play by your "rules." The way you have all set things game up with your webs of alliances and concepts that you can decide what size of alliance you can raid/attack/etc and still be morally on the side of right is interesting. When some group comes along like RLMMO and basically questions such things you are horrified and outraged. Now to be fair like the real world you all can expect !@#$%* to work and play nice per your rules BUT when a nation state comes along that really could care less if they live or die, then the power behind your "rules" loses any traction with them. The same is going on here, RLMMO members openly stated that ANY attack will be responded to. Raids for tech are an attack, so the response was predictable. Now most of the larger respectable power blocks I am going to guess did not think or expect us to do what we did and are horrified that we are not playing by your rules. I am sorry for this. asumption, but to the best of my knowledge there was not treatly or geneva convention document like object that we signed on to. Yes you can roll us, you can zi us (and probably will), but you can not expect us to play by your rules when we never agreed to them. anyhow, bottom line do not get your feelings hurt over this, we will still respect some of you in the morning and others not so much. unto Wyrdgar Ruler of Auctor thanks for a fun fight. brb need to nuc this guy horning in on your fun! Edited December 4, 2009 by zearth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 If there was ever any question of our diplomatic willingness to resolve rogue actions peaceably, ask any of the numerous people we have resolved issues with. Of course we probably wouldn't have paid reps, as their alliance isn't connected to anybody important, but we might have let them go. At least once they got a proper protectorate agreement with somebody anyway. See. this statement does nothing but SCREAM that they made the right choice. We MIGHT have let them go? You really did prove that they took the only course available to them. Its not a knock on you, run your alliance how you see fit, but, they clearly made the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes, I clearly implied they had a plan. Reading comprehension FTW!I said it is perfectly reasonable to look at a war screen, see who is raiding, and then determining, based on reputations and past actions, whether or not a trip down the diplomacy lane, would be worth it. Lets face it, if the raid was legal, and they came seeking a diplomatic solution, and even if they got one...future raids would STILL be legal. Its not unthinkable that they would come to the conclusion that all 14 of them are probably destined to be raided anyways. So, they decided to cut out all the intermediary nonsense and take the plunge. Yes I can read, can you? I assume you havent read this entire thread, because if you did you would realize that they had no plan what so ever. They didnt even think of coming to a peaceful resolution. They didnt plan anything, they didnt blitz, they didnt militarize, most didnt even change defcon, they didnt take into account that several of their nations will be bill locked or destroyed. To say that they based anything at all of past dealings is pointless because they didnt. The funny thing is I think Kronos and ROFL could have been pretty good friends had they been smart enough to use a diplomatic course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes I can read, can you? I assume you havent read this entire thread, because if you did you would realize that they had no plan what so ever.They didnt even think of coming to a peaceful resolution. They didnt plan anything, they didnt blitz, they didnt militarize, most didnt even change defcon, they didnt take into account that several of their nations will be bill locked or destroyed. To say that they based anything at all of past dealings is pointless because they didnt. The funny thing is I think Kronos and ROFL could have been pretty good friends had they been smart enough to use a diplomatic course of action. There is that word plan again. I dont see anywhere where I said they had a plan. I said they arrived at a not so illogical decision that this was the only means they had to defend themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes I can read, can you? I assume you havent read this entire thread, because if you did you would realize that they had no plan what so ever.They didnt even think of coming to a peaceful resolution. They didnt plan anything, they didnt blitz, they didnt militarize, most didnt even change defcon, they didnt take into account that several of their nations will be bill locked or destroyed. To say that they based anything at all of past dealings is pointless because they didnt. The funny thing is I think Kronos and ROFL could have been pretty good friends had they been smart enough to use a diplomatic course of action. This is the difference between someone who cares and someone who doesn't. Not everyone is an infra huger or addicted too this game, they play it just to pass by time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 See. this statement does nothing but SCREAM that they made the right choice. We MIGHT have let them go? You really did prove that they took the only course available to them. Its not a knock on you, run your alliance how you see fit, but, they clearly made the right choice. No, the right choice was to be a nice little insignificant alliance and get a protectorate. They should have known damn well what they were getting themselves into by making such brash claims of resistance with not a single ally to their name. You can't change the system. They have every right to try, but it's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 No, the right choice was to be a nice little insignificant alliance and get a protectorate. They should have known damn well what they were getting themselves into by making such brash claims of resistance with not a single ally to their name. You can't change the system. They have every right to try, but it's not going to happen. Sardonic where have they stated that they are mad about everyone attacking them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sardonic where have they stated that they are mad about everyone attacking them? They didn't. But there are enough people vicariously whining for them that it was worth saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes, I clearly implied they had a plan. Reading comprehension FTW! There is that word plan again. I dont see anywhere where I said they had a plan. Oh really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 They didn't. But there are enough people vicariously whining for them that it was worth saying. Yes people, not affiliated in anyway with RLMMO. Once again you point out the wrong people, the only people you should be concerned with is RLMMO. Not the moralistic front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zearth Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) wait a minute!!!!! we were supposed to have a PLANT??????? Dammit I have tons of ferns here. as for Sardonic, umm we all have a very clear idea what was going to happen, we never said otherwise. this does not equate to being a spinless jellyfish that you desire, so sorry anjiin. (edit) before I forget you can ask soldus and caffine, they will tell you that we are absolutly insane and loose cannons, poor guys had to suffer us for a while. (/edit) Edited December 4, 2009 by zearth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 No, the right choice was to be a nice little insignificant alliance and get a protectorate. They should have known damn well what they were getting themselves into by making such brash claims of resistance with not a single ally to their name. You can't change the system. They have every right to try, but it's not going to happen. Cant change the system? Thats a load of crap. There is no system. If there were a system, it would be universal. See, there are alliances who allow raids on AAs of <15...other <10....others <5. It is each alliances choice. From the view of the alliance that only allows raids <5 , for example, they are playing just fine within the system, they have banded together sufficiently so as to make them off limits. When the system is fragmented into several sub-systems, who is to say what "the smart thing to do" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is the difference between someone who cares and someone who doesn't. Not everyone is an infra huger or addicted too this game, they play it just to pass by time. I never once said anything about hugging infra, the closet thing I said was there decision could pointlessly kill their friends. Trust me Im not an infra hugger, I was planning on joining Khybers new alliance but the stupidity is just to much for me at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Oh really Really..I will wait while you find it and quote it...Take your time, I am patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is the difference between someone who cares and someone who doesn't. Not everyone is an infra huger or addicted too this game, they play it just to pass by time. I never once said anything about hugging infra, the closet thing I said was there decision could pointlessly kill their friends. Trust me Im not an infra hugger, I was planning on joining Khybers new alliance but the stupidity is just to much for me at this point I'm merely pointing out that their alliance could careless about their pixels. So why do you care about their pixels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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