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[Executive Minister]

[quote name='king of cochin' date='06 July 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1278440004' post='2361270']
It is for you to decide whether you want a defense system that would cause as much EMP havoc for your systems as well as damage equivalent to a blast effect ABM system. Why go for this unnecessary complication? If the Re-entry Vehicle is a dumb fall ballistic vehicle it would be easily EMP proofed and your exoatmospheric detonation would be pointless in SDI point of view. If you are looking to detonate them for the blast effect, you risk having the radiation fall on your own territory, ie, you do your enemy's job for them,

As regards lol CM attacks, best reply to that, in my opinion would be to go LOL CIWS, It is not all that hard to create a viable defense against cruise missiles in an organized manner. Also using nuclear tipped warheads against CMs would be as productive as throwing diesel to put down a small paper fire,
[/quote]

While I trust in your greater wisdom in regards to such things compared to me, if these things were the double edged swords you say they are, why did the US station the Spartan? Also, I recall reading somewhere that the Genie, an air-to-air 'street sweeper' against bomber masses detonated and caused no harm to unprotected personnel on the ground in a test.

[The FSM]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='06 July 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1278440572' post='2361277']
While I trust in your greater wisdom in regards to such things compared to me, if these things were the double edged swords you say they are, why did the US station the Spartan? Also, I recall reading somewhere that the Genie, an air-to-air 'street sweeper' against bomber masses detonated and caused no harm to unprotected personnel on the ground in a test.
[/quote]

In re; the genie, radiation from the genie test blast never reached the ground in any noticeable amount.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='The Flying Scotsman' date='06 July 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1278442522' post='2361300']
In re; the genie, radiation from the genie test blast never reached the ground in any noticeable amount.
[/quote]

Yeah, so can't I use that to my benefit as part of a SAM system for use against grouped CMs or bombers?

EDIT: OR Nukes? For some hot nuke-on-nuke action?

Edited July 6, 2010 by Executive Minister

[The FSM]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='06 July 2010 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1278442584' post='2361301']
Yeah, so can't I use that to my benefit as part of a SAM system for use against grouped CMs or bombers?

EDIT: OR Nukes? For some hot nuke-on-nuke action?
[/quote]

That just means you can use them as anti-missile weapons without worrying about giving all your people cancer

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='The Flying Scotsman' date='06 July 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1278442795' post='2361303']
That just means you can use them as anti-missile weapons without worrying about giving all your people cancer
[/quote]

Bu-bu-but i just said that they were tested with unprotected personnel on the ground, directly underneath them!

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='06 July 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1278449777' post='2361461']
Bu-bu-but i just said that they were tested with unprotected personnel on the ground, directly underneath them!
[/quote]
You better have plenty of lawyers since at least one of them are going to sue your government for exposing them to deadly radiation.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='06 July 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1278460647' post='2361760']
You better have plenty of lawyers since at least one of them are going to sue your government for exposing them to deadly radiation.
[/quote]

[quote]A live Genie was detonated only once, in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob"]Operation Plumbbob[/url] on 19 July 1957. It was fired by AF Captain Eric William Hutchison (pilot) and AF Captain Alfred C. Barbee (radar operator) flying a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-89_Scorpion"]F-89J[/url] over [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Flats"]Yucca Flats[/url] at an altitude of 4,500 m (15,000 ft). A group of five USAF officers volunteered to stand hatless in their light summer uniforms underneath the blast to prove that the weapon was safe for use over populated areas. They were photographed by George Yo!@#$ake who stood there with them. Gamma and neutron doses received by observers on the ground were negligible. Doses received by aircrew were highest for the fliers assigned to penetrate the airburst cloud ten minutes after explosion. [/quote][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIR-2_Genie#cite_note-1"][/url]

One of the benefits of RPing a regime like mine is the ability to bypass lawyers.

[HHAYD]

Which one is cheaper, anti-infantry landmines or bear traps with small amount of explosives?

Edited July 8, 2010 by HHAYD

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='07 July 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1278553558' post='2362980']
Which one is cheaper, anti-infantry landmines or bear traps with small amount of explosives?
[/quote]

Which one is easier to notice, an anti-infantry land mine or a big piece of metal?

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='07 July 2010 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1278553792' post='2362983']
Which one is easier to notice, an anti-infantry land mine or a big piece of metal?
[/quote]
You use extra large bear traps and bury them barely under the dirt. Today, anti-infantry mines can be ignited by the attackers using a long nylon rope attached with explosives fired out of a cannon without using massive amount of cannon fodders. Highly durable bear traps can resist the explosions unless if directly hit.

Edited July 8, 2010 by HHAYD

[The FSM]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='07 July 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1278554739' post='2363004']
You use extra large bear traps and bury them barely under the dirt. Today, anti-infantry mines can be ignited by the attackers using a long nylon rope attached with explosives fired out of a cannon without using massive amount of cannon fodders. Highly durable bear traps can resist the explosions unless if directly hit.
[/quote]

An explosion would mangle your beatrap at least to the point where the springs that activate the trap no longer function properly.

[HHAYD]

How effective would barbed pointed metal rod mats would be against infantry and vehicles? Once someone has his or her foot stuck on one of the barbed pointed rods, it would be very hard and painful to yank the foot out. Rubber tires would get stuck on the mats and would be deflated as soon as the rods are yanked out of the tires. Tank tracks would also get stuck on these and they would be shredded if too much force is applied.

The mats are hidden under a thin layer of mud. The infantry's and tire-based vehicles most effective way to counter the barbed pointed rods would be to use armored boots and tires, which would slow down the enemy's advance and make the vehicles' ride very uncomfortable. Another way would be to spam explosives to blow the mats away, but that is time and resource consuming, especially when hundreds of square miles of land that are covered with the mats has to be blown apart.

The pointed barbed rods would be spring loaded. It would contract as it is squeezed but expands as soon as the pressure is reduced. Here is a picture:

[img]http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9400/99102002.png[/img]

1: A boot is about to step onto the mat.
2: A picture of a pointed barbed rod before being stepped on.
3: Pointed barbed rod stepped on.
4: Pointed barbed rod expands within a split second later, preventing the victim from pulling his/her foot off the mat without tearing out a large chunk of his/her foot painfully. The victim is now thinking, "OH !@#$!" as bullets and other explosive stuff are flying around.

Times the pointed barbed rods that had impaled the foot by about a dozen time and it would be easier and faster to saw the foot off rather than sawing the the rods off or pulling the foot out. Even if the springs were busted, it would still be painful to have a dozen or so gaping holes in your foot while dodging bullets, shrapnel, and explosions.

Edited July 10, 2010 by HHAYD

[Il Terra Di Agea]

They would be semi-effective against infantry and light vehicles. The problem is, against vehicles, the spring-loaded mechanism would likely break when the vehicle moved forward, leaving what is essentially a cork plugging the hole. Against people, they would be devious.

The major problem is that something that is fairly intricate like that would take a lot of manpower, massive expense and a lot of time to keep up, a massive expense and a lot of time to build, and would still only be effective until the enemy started bolting steel soles into the boots, or employing a mine plow on their mobility vehicles. All in all, they would not be effective unless you are trying to close off small passages against a very poorly equipped army.

[HHAYD]

The purpose of the mats that I planned on using was to force the enemy to either conserve on resource, time, and effort by plowing through small narrow strips, which would create bottlenecks and that is a nightmare for attackers when the defenders focus their firepower on a small area that the attackers are trying to move through. Or. burn through resource, effort, and time to rip up the majority of the No-Man's Land which would also benefit the defenders by exhausting the attackers, strain the attackers' logistics, and give extra time for the defenders to hold their positions and fire back.

What would force the attackers to do one of the options above?

Edited July 10, 2010 by HHAYD

[king of cochin]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='10 July 2010 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1278720639' post='2365309']
How effective would barbed pointed metal rod mats would be against infantry and vehicles? Once someone has his or her foot stuck on one of the barbed pointed rods, it would be very hard and painful to yank the foot out. Rubber tires would get stuck on the mats and would be deflated as soon as the rods are yanked out of the tires. Tank tracks would also get stuck on these and they would be shredded if too much force is applied.

The mats are hidden under a thin layer of mud. The infantry's and tire-based vehicles most effective way to counter the barbed pointed rods would be to use armored boots and tires, which would slow down the enemy's advance and make the vehicles' ride very uncomfortable. Another way would be to spam explosives to blow the mats away, but that is time and resource consuming, especially when hundreds of square miles of land that are covered with the mats has to be blown apart.

The pointed barbed rods would be spring loaded. It would contract as it is squeezed but expands as soon as the pressure is reduced. Here is a picture:

[img]http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9400/99102002.png[/img]

1: A boot is about to step onto the mat.
2: A picture of a pointed barbed rod before being stepped on.
3: Pointed barbed rod stepped on.
4: Pointed barbed rod expands within a split second later, preventing the victim from pulling his/her foot off the mat without tearing out a large chunk of his/her foot painfully. The victim is now thinking, "OH !@#$!" as bullets and other explosive stuff are flying around.

Times the pointed barbed rods that had impaled the foot by about a dozen time and it would be easier and faster to saw the foot off rather than sawing the the rods off or pulling the foot out. Even if the springs were busted, it would still be painful to have a dozen or so gaping holes in your foot while dodging bullets, shrapnel, and explosions.
[/quote]


The mechanism what you have described is already in practice in the form of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop"]Caltrops[/url]. It is an effective passive anti-personnel weaponry, its effectiveness coming from its basic simplicity. Springs make anything complicated, springs also make things liable to fail and more expensive. Also I would suggest not making mats and just strewing the Caltrops in the general area and let nature provide it natural concealment, which would come rather fast either through dirt or leaves falling over it. Mats would break up the terrain camouflage permitting better detection chances.

Also Caltrops against vehicles are also moderately useful, but I repeat, only in a limited manner. We have seen the effectiveness of Caltrops in the numerous James Bond movies where the caltrops are strewn on the road from the Bond Car thus shredding opponents' tyres. It wont be as effective against armored tyres of APCs or tracks. However it is a useful attrition tool to have nevertheless.

[Executive Minister]

I have doubts of the effectiveness of these barbs against armoured boots and run flat tires currently used by most military-grade vehicles.

[HHAYD]

Would it be possible to program an anti-missile missile to hit an enemy missile in the lower side (upper: nose, lower: engine) to blow up the rocket engine and ignite the fuel tank? The purpose is to veer deadly KE missiles into an area that is determined to be less important and turn it into less harmful free-falling metal chunk.

[iKrolm]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='09 July 2010 - 08:45 PM' timestamp='1278733502' post='2365502']
Would it be possible to program an anti-missile missile to hit an enemy missile in the lower side (upper: nose, lower: engine) to blow up the rocket engine and ignite the fuel tank? The purpose is to veer deadly KE missiles into an area that is determined to be less important and turn it into less harmful free-falling metal chunk.
[/quote]

Is that not how current anti-cruise-missile/anti-ballistic-missile missiles work? (Not the KE anti-missile missiles, explosive ones.) Not sure how'd you veer it, but the missile would be disabled & loose guidance.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='iKrolm' date='09 July 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1278734506' post='2365514']
Is that not how current anti-cruise-missile/anti-ballistic-missile missiles work? (Not the KE anti-missile missiles, explosive ones.) [b]Not sure how'd you veer it, but the missile would be disabled & loose guidance.[/b]
[/quote]
If you were to throw a ball at a wall, it will hit the wall. But if another ball flies in from the right and hits the ball that you just threw, then it might end up hitting something else. Same thing with missiles. If a missile collides with another one from the left, then the missile that was hit will veer to the left from the impact.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='10 July 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1278736749' post='2365566']
If you were to throw a ball at a wall, it will hit the wall. But if another ball flies in from the right and hits the ball that you just threw, then it might end up hitting something else. Same thing with missiles. If a missile collides with another one from the left, then the missile that was hit will veer to the left from the impact.
[/quote]

Er... most often than not a missile hit with a missile will explode.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='09 July 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1278737183' post='2365574']
Er... most often than not a missile hit with a missile will explode.
[/quote]
Are you saying that if a HESH missile collides with a KE missile, the HESH missile itself and KE missile's engine and fuel tank won't explode? I don't see how that is possible unless if the KE missile had insanely thick armoring and spall liners.

[Zoot Zoot]

he said they WILL explode
you crash two missiles together and they will explode.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='10 July 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1278792287' post='2366094']
he said they WILL explode
you crash two missiles together and they will explode.
[/quote]
Oh, I see. I was talking about KE missiles' metal core being thrown off the KE missile's planned flight course once when the rest of the missile is blown to pieces.

Edited July 10, 2010 by HHAYD

[HHAYD]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='09 July 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1278727140' post='2365386']
Classified, updated border defenses plan:

[img]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2698/defenses.png[/img]

Railguns (blue squares): Each square has two 20mm railguns that have up to a 200km range and the railguns have six barreled cylinder system, each time a barrel is used, it is rotated out of the firing position and is replaced by a cooled down barrel. The railguns' armoring can withstand multiple direct 250mm AP shells. The purpose of the railguns are to wreak chaos on the congested pathways by destroying dozens of vehicles per shot.
[/quote]
What caliber and range would a railgun need if I want it to be able to tear through the first enemy unit and keep on slicing through vehicles and infantry until most of the line has been shredded? I plan on using the railguns as a close range crowd control (kinda like firing a .50 caliber bullet into a line of people) instead of sniping enemies far away.

Would it be possible to have a gatling gun's barrel installed onto a railgun? Each time a shell passes through a barrel, it would rotate out of the firing position and cool down with the help of liquid nitrogen while an already fully cooled down barrel slips into firing position.

Edited July 11, 2010 by HHAYD

[king of cochin]

[quote name='HHAYD' date='12 July 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1278881153' post='2367205']
What caliber and range would a railgun need if I want it to be able to tear through the first enemy unit and keep on slicing through vehicles and infantry until most of the line has been shredded? I plan on using the railguns as a close range crowd control (kinda like firing a .50 caliber bullet into a line of people) instead of sniping enemies far away.

Would it be possible to have a gatling gun's barrel installed onto a railgun? Each time a shell passes through a barrel, it would rotate out of the firing position and cool down with the help of liquid nitrogen while an already fully cooled down barrel slips into firing position.
[/quote]


A rail gun is an effective direct fire weapon but the light weight of rail gun projectile and its mechanical characteristics mean they may not exactly go through successive layers of opponents like the heavy bullets of .50 caliber in HMGs.

The gatling gun mechanism could be workable, but not sure.