Cataduanes Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) This is a strawman. So you start a debate and i add my thoughts and this is the sort of reply i can expect? nice...i can see now that this thread is a complete waste of time Edited September 1, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I'm not saying that at all. So GATO members who join after they got stomped by NPO have no right to inherit that history but NPO members are ok to inherit history from something that occurred 6 years ago in another realm? If not, what is it you are saying because you appear to be all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So GATO members who join after they got stomped by NPO have no right to inherit that history but NPO members are ok to inherit history from something that occurred 6 years ago in another realm?If not, what is it you are saying because you appear to be all over the place. I'm saying that the history of their alliance doesn't provide them with reasons to hate NPO's leadership on a personal level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So you start a debate and i add my thoughts and this is the sort of reply i can expect? nice...i can see now that this thread is a complete waste of time You just worked that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 You just worked that out? To my shame yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So you start a debate and i add my thoughts and this is the sort of reply i can expect? nice...i can see now that this thread is a complete waste of time I explained why it was a strawman, it wasn't as if I just dismissed it. Sorry, dude, I didn't mean to piss you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I'm saying that the history of their alliance doesn't provide them with reasons to hate NPO's leadership on a personal level. GATO's history provides a reason for their members to dislike the NPO on a personal level moreso than the NPO's history in another realm provides a reason for NPO members in this realm to celebrate a 6 year anniversary of something that never happened in this realm. You are a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 To my shame yes It is just another Francesca cry for attention and an attempt to ingratiate herself with NPO leadership. As a failed leader and a 3rd rate politician she is left with only these vacuous "essays" as a means to desperately claim any relevance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Karma was a diverse coalition of forces, everyone in karma had different views on ethics and what was right and wrong, some people wanted NPO to die completely and I'm sure some people wanted 100% white peace for them. NPO wasn't forced down forever in war and no hegemony alliances disbanded, I would say that when you look at the potential harm that could of been done to hegemony, and the real harm that was done to them, hegemony got off pretty ok. The only reason the "hegemony" got "off pretty ok" is because "Karma" sucked at war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The only reason the "hegemony" got "off pretty ok" is because "Karma" sucked at war. Yeah, we had too much tech apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 GATO's history provides a reason for their members to dislike the NPO on a personal level moreso than the NPO's history in another realm provides a reason for NPO members in this realm to celebrate a 6 year anniversary of something that never happened in this realm.You are a hypocrite. GATO's history presents GATO's members good reasons to dislike Pacifica, but not on the same way that I have issues with TSO. It is just another Francesca cry for attention and an attempt to ingratiate herself with NPO leadership. As a failed leader and a 3rd rate politician she is left with only these vacuous "essays" as a means to desperately claim any relevance. Why don't you try rebutting my arguments rather than make pointless ad hominems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The only reason the "hegemony" got "off pretty ok" is because "Karma" sucked at war. I was more reffering to surrender terms and the potential for them to be worse, war related, Karma was pretty shoddy and uncaring at the end of the NPO war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Karma wasn't unified enough to have a single outlook on ethics; it's not hypocritical if it doesn't have a standard for doubling to begin with. Individual alliances leader may be, but the coalition of alliances wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Why don't you try rebutting my arguments rather than make pointless ad hominems? Pointless would be subjective in this case as Tyga's rational seems to be based on accurate observation of your activities as of late. Of course he dosent need me to make that argument, but as a devouted observer myself and occassional member of the peanut gallery I completely agree with his assessment. That being said, please keep proceeding as per normal your path has been a most entertaining one to watch. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 GATO's history presents GATO's members good reasons to dislike Pacifica, but not on the same way that I have issues with TSO. But you said they have no reason to hate or dislike Pacifica. Is this a concession that what you said about GATO was wrong? Why don't you try rebutting my arguments rather than make pointless ad hominems? Your "arguments" have been rebutted months ago. Your "arguments" are based on a myopic view of Karma that you now conveniently settle on because it now suits you to do so. Why did the STA join the Karma coalition, Francesca? Do tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Pointless would be subjective in this case as Tyga's rational seems to be based on accurate observation of your activities as of late. Of course he dosent need me to make that argument, but as a devouted observer myself and occassional member of the peanut gallery I completely agree with his assessment. That being said, please keep proceeding as per normal your path has been a most entertaining one to watch. Cheers The ad hominems are pointless because they don't rebut my arguments, and after all, this thread was intended to strike up some debate, and not defend myself from attacks on my character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 But you said they have no reason to hate or dislike Pacifica. Is this a concession that what you said about GATO was wrong? As I made quite clear, this was on a personal level. Perhaps I was not clear enough about this. If so, I apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Karma wasn't unified enough to have a single outlook on ethics; Precisely. Karma alliances had a variety of motivations to fight the Hegemony which is why Francesca's argument is a feeble one. The peace terms debacle was a major public display of the difference in ethics and motivations within the Coalition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The ad hominems are pointless because they don't rebut my arguments, and after all, this thread was intended to strike up some debate, and not defend myself from attacks on my character. They are only pointless if they arent true, which is subjective. When one presents an essay or a theory it is perfectly acceptable to look at the charecter of the presenter and apply a reasonable analysis of it based on past behavior that would infer the current intent. Thats what he did, so yes from your point of view i guess it would be pointless but that dosent make it pointless for those that agree with his assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Precisely. Karma alliances had a variety of motivations to fight the Hegemony which is why Francesca's argument is a feeble one. The peace terms debacle was a major public display of the difference in ethics and motivations within the Coalition. Correct. Karma fought for a variety of reasons, the most prominent one being revenge. The fact that they didn't just say so right from the start makes me hold them in some contempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 As I made quite clear, this was on a personal level. Perhaps I was not clear enough about this. If so, I apologise. No, you made it quite clear, it just makes no sense at all. You are saying that a member of GATO who joins and looks over GATO's history and sees what was done to their alliance has no basis for a personal dislike of the NPO yet a new NPO member is quite able to show pride in a celebration of an event they never took part in nor witnessed. I think that in your desperation to push the "if you weren't there, you can't be upset" angle with regards to GATO members you inadvertently painted yourself into a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Correct. Karma fought for a variety of reasons, the most prominent one being revenge. The fact that they didn't just say so right from the start makes me hold them in some contempt. Who was the STA seeking revenge against? We fought Molon Labe and DOOM. If STA were motivated by revenge, wouldn't we have jumped Valhalla? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I was more reffering to surrender terms and the potential for them to be worse, war related, Karma was pretty shoddy and uncaring at the end of the NPO war. Karma was shoddy and uncaring from start. You're allied to Sparta, anyways, if Sparta didn't suck so badly at war NPO wouldn't have had sanction right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 They are only pointless if they arent true, which is subjective. When one presents an essay or a theory it is perfectly acceptable to look at the charecter of the presenter and apply a reasonable analysis of it based on past behavior that would infer the current intent. Thats what he did, so yes from your point of view i guess it would be pointless but that dosent make it pointless for those that agree with his assessment. Even if they were true, they would contribute nothing to destroying my points, and are therefore pointless and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Who was the STA seeking revenge against? We fought Molon Labe and DOOM. If STA were motivated by revenge, wouldn't we have jumped Valhalla? I'm sure you can satisfy yourself by jumping their allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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