I'm baffled NPO

[Stumpy Jung Il]

You are not the GPA. And of course others were just as responsible. You are not GATO or Legion and again others were as involved. Many, many alliances have until recently imposed EZI.

However it is You who are imposing the harshest terms ever.

Your not as as 'bad' as us. You are worse than us.

He was in GPA, does that count?

[KingEsus]

You are purposely ignoring the terms, which state that the amount to be paid is up to that amount, meaning that the amount would not exceed that amount, and could be less.

Another part of the terms reads as something similar to when NPO has complied we will assess the terms and come up with numbers that we believe NPO can pay.

So just like the previous 'pre-terms' your saying, "Stand there." "Okay now i'm going to puch you in the face really really hard... for 14 days" "Then be nice and let you go", "or you might have a 6 months of slavery"...

Great thanks.

Glad you guys came along to save the game!

[Petrovich4]

But not justified by the alliances imposing them. If we were fighting GATO and they wanted to impose a term regarding peace mode nations, perhaps, but karma just want profit now, your goal is no higher than that. They are not reallocating aid to the alliances which were victims of supposed wrongdoing.

Hey! Maybe Vanguard wants the reps we gave to Legion back in August given back to us via NPO (who was one of many to tell Legion to extract reps from us)...with interest!

[Caliph]

You are not the GPA. And of course others were just as responsible. You are not GATO or Legion and again others were as involved. Many, many alliances have until recently imposed EZI.

However it is You who are imposing the harshest terms ever.

Your not as as 'bad' as us. You are worse than us.

So how are "we" worse than you, when you have imposed the harshest surrender terms in history before, have held Viceroyships for over a year, extorted alliances for an unspecified amount of reps for an unspecified amount of time, and attacked an alliance that is so neutral they were neutral about their own beatdown and curbstomping?

Karma never specifies exactly who, or what form, the retribution will come. Karma, this time, has come in the form of alliances you have not (with the majority of them) wronged in the past. That is a perfectly acceptable definition of Karma.

[KingEsus]

He was in GPA, does that count?

No. Because the GPA aren't the ones imposing the terms.

[Azaghul]

You are not the GPA. And of course others were just as responsible. You are not GATO or Legion and again others were as involved. Many, many alliances have until recently imposed EZI.

However it is You who are imposing the harshest terms ever.

Your not as as 'bad' as us. You are worse than us.

I was in MK when you made many of our members decommission wonders and imposed hard terms on us because we simply defended an ally. I watched several old friends delete in GPA when you attacked them that I had known from my stint in GPA. One of my best friends in the game who I still talk to IRL quit because an NPO guy kept attacking him after peace was declared even though the guy knew it was declared. Does that count?

[Petrovich4]

Glad you guys came along to save the game!

Don't thank us. Thank Stumpy. He saved us all. He always does.

Please invite other NPO members to continue posting here.

[KingEsus]

I was in MK when you made many of our members decommission wonders and imposed hard terms on us because we simply defended an ally. I watched several old friends delete in GPA when you attacked them that I had known from my stint in GPA. One of my best friends in the game who I still talk to IRL quit because an NPO guy kept attacking him after peace was declared even though the guy knew it was declared. Does that count?

You honestly think little me was part of any of this?!

So an eye for an eye. HAH. Great.

Leading by example. No you just let the cycle continue.

[Seerow]

You honestly think little me was part of any of this?!

So an eye for an eye. HAH. Great.

Leading by example. No you just let the cycle continue.

And now we're back to "You're going to be as bad as we were!"

No, you just let the cycle continue.

[Caliph]

So just like the previous 'pre-terms' your saying, "Stand there." "Okay now i'm going to puch you in the face really really hard... for 14 days" "Then be nice and let you go", "or you might have a 6 months of slavery"...

Great thanks.

Glad you guys came along to save the game!

See, when you organize a ghosting campaign with the sole intent of accusing them of violating surrender terms, like what you did against FAN, you tend to think that everyone will do the same to you if placed in that same situation.

The fact is this: 90% of your alliance must come out of peace mode. 90% of your top nations must come out of peace mode. Karma leaders have stated on these forums they would be willing to do some sort of nation tracking to make sure that no nation coming out of PM stays in war more than 2 weeks, and once the 2 weeks has been up for the 90% of your alliance and 90% of your upper tier, then the rest of the terms can be started.

Besides, you cannot go more than 20 days without checking in, otherwise you delete. Is NPO's internal ghost busting program so bad that they can't send out PM's to the required number of nations, and can't check to see who has read those PM's?

You are, simply put, pulling outrageous numbers out of your $@! and attempting to pass them off as fact. At most it would be 3 weeks until everyone required is out of PM, and an additional 2 weeks of war, however Karma alliances have stated that they could do a nation tracking program to make sure that each nation coming out of PM would only see the required 2 weeks of war.

[Essenia]

You honestly think little me was part of any of this?!

Members are responsible for the actions of their leaders. What alliance has always repeated this slogan to no end.

[Cortath]

You are purposely ignoring the terms, which state that the amount to be paid is up to that amount, meaning that the amount would not exceed that amount, and could be less.

Another part of the terms reads as something similar to when NPO has complied we will assess the terms and come up with numbers that we believe NPO can pay.

So we have an entirely different story after reading the terms. NPO will face harsh terms, but with some of the bets economic minds in the game assessing them they will be doable by the NPO.

If you have nations that leave, good riddince. You don't need hypocrits and bullies in your ranks, who enjoy extorting others in agressive wars, but when they lose an agressive war they quit. You are better without those types of people.

*chuckles heartily*

I get a kick out of this argument. So, because the terms might be less, we should accept them? But Karma won't tell us what criteria will bring them down, will they? And Karma won't tell us what criteria even determined the original numbers, will they?

Asking the people you want to surrender to take your word for it is a peculiar strategy. These things are written down in terms for a reason.

[Petrovich4]

You honestly think little me was part of any of this?!

So an eye for an eye. HAH. Great.

Leading by example. No you just let the cycle continue.

This has been repeated several times in the past and in the current situation by both sides, but you inherent the good and bad when you join an alliance, regardless of your ignorance of their past. Next time study alliances more carefully. Ignorance is not an excuse in this case. You were fortunate to benefit from NPO during the 'golden days', now you are unfortunately benefiting from their twilight days.

If this cycle were to continue (because of NPO) based on everything staying the same as it is now, I will be here in 2011...where will FAN-wannabe NPO be? Where will you be? This cycle will stop once your leaders let go of their inherent agressive tendencies...which I doubt

[KingEsus]

See, when you organize a ghosting campaign with the sole intent of accusing them of violating surrender terms, like what you did against FAN, you tend to think that everyone will do the same to you if placed in that same situation.

The fact is this: 90% of your alliance must come out of peace mode. 90% of your top nations must come out of peace mode. Karma leaders have stated on these forums they would be willing to do some sort of nation tracking to make sure that no nation coming out of PM stays in war more than 2 weeks, and once the 2 weeks has been up for the 90% of your alliance and 90% of your upper tier, then the rest of the terms can be started.

Besides, you cannot go more than 20 days without checking in, otherwise you delete. Is NPO's internal ghost busting program so bad that they can't send out PM's to the required number of nations, and can't check to see who has read those PM's?

You are, simply put, pulling outrageous numbers out of your $@! and attempting to pass them off as fact. At most it would be 3 weeks until everyone required is out of PM, and an additional 2 weeks of war, however Karma alliances have stated that they could do a nation tracking program to make sure that each nation coming out of PM would only see the required 2 weeks of war.

I have absolutely ZERO interest in your proposed bureaucracy to ensure destruction.

My point is you are the biggest hypocrites in the history of this game.

You have no claim to to the moral high ground. If you wanted to make a point. You should of beaten us down (as has happened) and then lead by example.

But instead you want billions upon billions of aid to profit your own coalition on behalf of an entirely different group of people. And ... and this is unprecedented ... you have singled out a specific group of people who are to pay for this.

[Caliph]

*chuckles heartily*

I get a kick out of this argument. So, because the terms might be less, we should accept them? But Karma won't tell us what criteria will bring them down, will they? And Karma won't tell us what criteria even determined the original numbers, will they?

Asking the people you want to surrender to take your word for it is a peculiar strategy. These things are written down in terms for a reason.

Actually, Karma does, in fact, tell you exactly what criteria will bring them down.

Reparations of up to 300,000 tech and $7,000,000,000 will be assessed upon the New Pacific Order. This shall be determined dependent on their ability to pay after the aforementioned period of war, in the judgment of the Karma signatories of this document. All reparations of technology must be paid by nations with greater than or equal to 1000.00 technology at the end of the above-mentioned 14 day period.

Taken from http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=60464.

Great economic minds will be assessing this, including those who have had to organize similar such payments to the NPO and allies in the past.

I fully trust their judgement as to how much the NPO can pay, not how much you guys want to pay.

I have absolutely ZERO interest in your proposed bureaucracy to ensure destruction.

My point is you are the biggest hypocrites in the history of this game.

You have no claim to to the moral high ground. If you wanted to make a point. You should of beaten us down (as has happened) and then lead by example.

But instead you want billions upon billions of aid to profit your own coalition on behalf of an entirely different group of people. And ... and this is unprecedented ... you have singled out a specific group of people who are to pay for this.

1) I am in RAD. We are not engaging NPO, and such have no say in NPO's terms.

2) NPO has no claim to moral high ground, due to their actions in the past, and for their actions that have started this war, because this war did indeed start because of NPO's DOW.

3) An alliance is responsible for the actions of its leaders, regardless of if the leaders are currently present in that alliance or not. The NPO has gone to war over this premise repeatedly.

You keep bawwing about harsh terms, saying "it wasn't me, it wasn't me", when in fact your alliance hasn't cared one bit when the boot was on the other foot. So you'll excuse me while I simply don't care one bit over the prediciment you find yourself in now.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Caliph

[Petrovich4]

*chuckles heartily*

I get a kick out of this argument. So, because the terms might be less, we should accept them? But Karma won't tell us what criteria will bring them down, will they? And Karma won't tell us what criteria even determined the original numbers, will they?

Asking the people you want to surrender to take your word for it is a peculiar strategy. These things are written down in terms for a reason.

I'm guessing your paranoid because of what your alliance has done in the past will be done to you (FAN style). Guess what, we are not you...and all of us never want to be you. Sure you can yell on the rooftop that we have become 'death' like you, but we know who we are.

Once again, it is your past paranoia that is dictating the way you behave towards us. Your PR campaign to make Archon look like a liar is also quite amusing and off track. I expect this whining to continue for another week before you come back to us.

Wait nm, that happened yesterday.

[KingEsus]

And now we're back to "You're going to be as bad as we were!"

No, you just let the cycle continue.

There is a popular phrase on the NPO forums regarding you Seerow. But i cannot repeat it here.

But no. Karma are much, much worse. At least the NPO never hid the fact that it was what it was.

[Azaghul]

All your allies got a relatively easy peace, so quit with the "we are just as bad as you game!"

I also believe NPO forced GATO to "trust them" far more than these terms require NPO to trust Karma when GATO was given an indefinite period of being under a Viceroy. Not having the cards in your hand to control things is part of being defeated in a war. Too bad.

[Essenia]

There is a popular phrase on the NPO forums regarding you Seerow. But i cannot repeat it here.

You mean "$%&@ Seerow"? And then there is the fact that NPO members joked about raping him, this from the alliance that sanctimoniously declared many times that "$%&@ is never funny".

[Caliph]

You mean "$%&@ Seerow"? And then there is the fact that NPO members joked about raping him, this from the alliance that sanctimoniously declared many times that "$%&@ is never funny".

Or how about the destruction of the GOON Order of Neutral Shoving over "OOC attacks"?

Its funny how the outrage against "OOC attacks" only works when it benefits them.

[King DrunkWino]

You mean "$%&@ Seerow"? And then there is the fact that NPO members joked about raping him, this from the alliance that sanctimoniously declared many times that "$%&@ is never funny".

(insert sound of a needle scratching a record)

Wait, what now?

[Cortath]

Actually, Karma does, in fact, tell you exactly what criteria will bring them down.

Taken from http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=60464.

Great economic minds will be assessing this, including those who have had to organize similar such payments to the NPO and allies in the past.

I fully trust their judgement as to how much the NPO can pay, not how much you guys want to pay.

1) I am in RAD. We are not engaging NPO, and such have no say in NPO's terms.

2) NPO has no claim to moral high ground, due to their actions in the past, and for their actions that have started this war, because this war did indeed start because of NPO's DOW.

3) An alliance is responsible for the actions of its leaders, regardless of if the leaders are currently present in that alliance or not. The NPO has gone to war over this premise repeatedly.

You keep bawwing about harsh terms, saying "it wasn't me, it wasn't me", when in fact your alliance hasn't cared one bit when the boot was on the other foot. So you'll excuse me while I simply don't care one bit over the prediciment you find yourself in now.

Ah yes, I shall trust in their just judgment.

I'm guessing your paranoid because of what your alliance has done in the past will be done to you (FAN style). Guess what, we are not you...and all of us never want to be you. Sure you can yell on the rooftop that we have become 'death' like you, but we know who we are.

Once again, it is your past paranoia that is dictating the way you behave towards us. Your PR campaign to make Archon look like a liar is also quite amusing and off track. I expect this whining to continue for another week before you come back to us.

Wait nm, that happened yesterday.

Again, this isn't about our paranoia. Terms that are necessary to keep us down for this long is about Karma's paranoia and their fear that we will ruse up and destroy them

All your allies got a relatively easy peace, so quit with the "we are just as bad as you game!"

I also believe NPO forced GATO to "trust them" far more than these terms require NPO to trust Karma when GATO was given an indefinite period of being under a Viceroy. Not having the cards in your hand to control things is part of being defeated in a war. Too bad.

That's incorrect, actually. We told GATO very early on what they would have to do to get released after 6 months. These goals were made after discussing them with GATO leaders. The single goal they didn't meet was finishing their Charter convention. Come April, it hadn't finished after many, many months, so we decided to let them go with their old Charter to remain.

[KingEsus]

Not having the cards in your hand to control things is part of being defeated in a war. Too bad.

Wow. That sounds familiar... After this is all over i suggest you apply to be an IO in the NPO, circa 2008.

That's not a complement. I don't think too highly of them either.

[KingEsus]

(insert sound of a needle scratching a record)

Wait, what now?

I have never, ever seen any reference to $%&@.

Libel.

edit: filtered out the 'r' word.

And seriously i have never seen that.

Please don't start making things up please.

Edited June 14, 2009 by KingEsus

[Petrovich4]

Again, this isn't about our paranoia. Terms that are necessary to keep us down for this long is about Karma's paranoia and their fear that we will ruse up and destroy them

Oh, but you will. Try at least. It will not be so obvious as it has been in the past, but based on your past, and more importantly, the way NPO members continue to conduct themselves (grunt to emperor), your mentality has not changed.

We are just ensuring you are occupied with other things while the multipolar world (led by evil Citadel, according to an NPO IO) leads the world in sexiness, frustration and charming wit.