anenu Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) It defiantly changed the political environment. Q is gone and NPO is no longer the dominate power in the game and instead of one bloc being larger than any other multiple blocs are around the same NS range. Now if you mean will things like curbstomps, EZI/PZI and such continue well that will be up to individual alliances like it always really was. Edited June 7, 2009 by anenu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoDurkster Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Who ever thinks EZI's are gone are mistaken.. not saying NPO will keep them though i dont see whats stopping them... But EZI's are around for a reason and shall always remain until Admin makes the un-allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) It spread the power around a bunch. all it did was spread the power around to either a) people who don't deserve it. B.) people who don't know how to do with it. or c) people who simply can't get the job done. Real effective there. [edit] took out the dude with the stunna shades. Edited June 7, 2009 by astronaut jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 So if people don't demands reps as huge as you would it MUST mean they're giving in to PR pressure, right? Because there's no way they could just have a different perspective over what reps mean and how they're given out, yes. Is that what I said? No, that's not what I said at all. My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with reps, but karma essentially being a marginally lesser evil who are starting to use their new-found power, sitting atop the dung heap, to essentially force people through various means, to bow to their will. What exactly has changed? Nothing. Karma is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 This war hasn't solved a thing. The NPO will rebuild, the leechers will still leech off others (You know who you are.), their will be a new powerhouse alliance that will abuse its power. The only difference this war has made is that at every update instead of a tax collection you're getting a nuke instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixoux Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Is that what I said?No, that's not what I said at all. My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with reps, but karma essentially being a marginally lesser evil who are starting to use their new-found power, sitting atop the dung heap, to essentially force people through various means, to bow to their will. What exactly has changed? Nothing. Karma is a joke. Not that I'm inherently disagreeing with you, but what would you do in this position? Genuinely interested, not an attempt to flame. Edited June 7, 2009 by Mixoux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Oh, things definitely changed, be it the character of discourse on these forums or the generally more level playing field most alliances have to play with. But nothing near what people wanted to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 "Karma" was a joke from day one. Changed anything? Your definition of anything is a little broad, btw, but I suppose anything is, well, anything. Did it change superficial things? Names/faces? Yes. Can it change human nature? No. Remember kids: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The biggest proponants of Karma tended to be the biggest despots before NPO put them in their respective places, and they finally undermined their sentences. Good show, but this fight isn't about a better and brighter Bob. It's about a lust for a return to the power those on PZI lists used to abuse with reckless abandon. The majority of the people on the lists were there for a reason, as the world will soon find out. Anyone pointing a finger and screaming "ebil!" had best take a good hard look in the mirror. People talked about lines being drawn before the war, but I believe the lines were drawn during the course of the war. This war was a sham. The real war is going to roll around soon, and hopefully by then most logical people will see "Karma" for what it was. A bad joke. The majority of my opponents were wonderful, and I in no way mean to disparage them. I'm not specifying any particular alliance here, just the concept under which the shambling bloc stumbled to war. Tell me "Karma"... Do YOU even know your purpose? Oh right, "we're not a bloc, we don't have a standard, blah blah blah" Nice and nebulous shield to hide behind there, though you'll have to answer for your actions one day. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Is that your way of making it so the Hegemony didn't lose the war? just the concept under which the shambling bloc stumbled to war. There was no bloc to begin with so um, yeah? The phrase "Karma" was coined as its far easier to say one word than the dozens of alliances on that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Is that your way of making it so the Hegemony didn't lose the war? No. I never said that. Then again, I really don't feel as if I've lost anything, personally. I've gained quite a bit of respect for a large swath of people I never even knew existed before this war. There was no bloc to begin with so um, yeah? The phrase "Karma" was coined as its far easier to say one word than the dozens of alliances on that side. And there lies the rub. So break it down for me... Was it a group of "innocents" drawn into doing things they didn't want to do because they were contractually obligated? A power grab? What was it? What was your purpose? Not trying to be an $@!, I'm genuinely interested. I will admit it was amusing watching so many people try and shake off the "Karma" tag. Even the hardliners had ulterior motives though. Nobody's pure man, don't kid yourself. Edited for as much clarification as this monkey can muster. Edited June 7, 2009 by PrideAssassin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Apparently everyone thinks BLEU was in good standing with everything and they were some immaculate bloc.Look I loved BLEU and disliked Agora more than most anyone. But BLEU was a band of brothers who was hated by damn near everyone. Yes we were united but most alliances disliked us. I later realized that the other bloc to enter the last war fighting on the same side as BLEU, C&G, fought on that side in spite of BLEU and not alongside it. If you want to rebuild BLEU then the leaders will have to do a better job diplomatically. I'm just glad I don't have to fight anymore of its wars for it. That's just me, though. Good luck restoring the blue sphere into a united one again. MCXA will be easy with Gopher and Doctor Fresh at the helm, but I think Echelon will always show a little bit of defiance in that regard. No. I never said that. Then again, I really don't feel as if I've lost anything, personally. I've gained quite a bit of respect for a large swath of people I never even knew existed before this war.And there lies the rub. So break it down for me... Was it a group of "innocents" drawn into doing things they didn't want to do because they were contractually obligated? A power grab? What was it? What was your purpose? Not trying to be an $@!, I'm genuinely interested. I will admit it was amusing watching so many people try and shake off the "Karma" tag. Even the hardliners had ulterior motives though. Nobody's pure man, don't kid yourself. Edited for as much clarification as this monkey can muster. Karma was being built in late 2008 so...... They aren't so innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 And there lies the rub. So break it down for me... Was it a group of "innocents" drawn into doing things they didn't want to do because they were contractually obligated? A power grab? What was it? What was your purpose? Not trying to be an $@!, I'm genuinely interested.I will admit it was amusing watching so many people try and shake off the "Karma" tag. Even the hardliners had ulterior motives though. Nobody's pure man, don't kid yourself. Edited for as much clarification as this monkey can muster. A bunch of alliances realized that NPO was (again) going to try to roll people (in this case OV) and the affected alliances started planning, since, if going down in flames was required it would be far better to coordinate than to just take the hits. Slowly more and more alliances got involved, then NPO decided to start the war whilst negotiating, and more people were brought in etc. For convenience sake the label "Karma" was applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) "Karma" has been a work in progress for a very long time. read the propoganda posted here and you can see the progression. The way people worked openly to align others against the great and terrible Hegemony has been pretty blatant and overt for quite a while now. If you really believe this entire mess started over the OV thing, then I would have to assume you either don't frequent this area or you're not being entirely honest with me. The bloc has been prepared and lying in wait for NPO to slip up for some time now. Eidt: took out a needless word. Stupid lack of typing skillz. Edited June 7, 2009 by PrideAssassin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassman Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 My own opinion NPO are a good alliance and a good enemy. NPO have been beating anyone down who opposed them and making super power blocs to overwhelm any forming enemies. However as all bad guys go, they fall in a pit of lavva saying "Noooooo" or "I'll be back!". Anyway now all the opposing forces against NPO are joining together and making a new start. This is a win for the Karma side as it is clearly shown by statistics and political power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure I'd use the word 'solve', since that implies things are improved. I'm sure NPO preferred their situation two months ago over their present condition. But if you're asking if this war changed anything, absolutely. The Karma War has changed the planet more than any other event in my time here (approaching two years). edit: PrideAssassin, I think you're more than a little paranoid. Edited June 7, 2009 by Lord Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 "Karma" has been a work in progress for a very long time. read the propoganda posted here and you can see the progression. The way people worked openly to align others against the great and terrible Hegemony has been pretty blatant and overt for quite a while now. If you really believe this entire mess started over the OV thing, then I would have to assume you either don't frequent this area or you're not being entirely honest with me.The bloc has been prepared and lying in wait for NPO to slip up for some time now. Eidt: took out a needless word. Stupid lack of typing skillz. Then I guess it's funny that the NPO would attack such a blatant organized group of alliances when it was so obvious that they were jumping into a pit. And seriously, when you play the game the way the hegemony played it - beating up on random alliances whenever they wanted to - you should not be surprised when people stop falling in line with you and "worked openly to align against" you. What happened was the normal hodgepodge pile of alliances not directly allied to NPO didn't scatter like normal - they coalesced into a brick wall that NPO ran head first into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Not that I'm inherently disagreeing with you, but what would you do in this position?Genuinely interested, not an attempt to flame. Well, if you wanted real change, and to make a true break from the "evils" of the past, I wouldn't go parading around being a poor imitation of those alliances you've seeked to overthrow, while preaching that you're making real progress or change or whatever they're throwing around these days. You have alliances that fought on the side of karma who have openly tried to force other alliances on the same side as theirs to bend to their will. I've seen people tell others "these actions won't be forgotten" or some variation thereof (I'm paraphrasing), implying that certain alliances are going to get theirs, yet they're on the SAME SIDE. And the most obvious of all, you had people trying to openly disparage the name of Ragnarok and GOD, for what? For doing what was best for their alliances? There's no change there, it's just people staking a claim to the throne that have absolutely no business doing so. So first things first, I'd do away with that nonsense, I'd do away with all the talk of "we're different" or "we're better" because it's not fooling anyone any longer. I'd be honest about what's going on. It's a power grab by certain people, certain alliances. They think they're more just and more honourable, which they think gives them the right to do the exact same things, as if that's not in the least bit hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) edit: PrideAssassin, I think you're more than a little paranoid. Why thank you. I pride myself on my deficiencies. "Karma" still hasn't been explained to me though. A treaty chain with a little planning as a result of the OV incident (which was backed by grandoise claims, and all that good mess) vs. the hardliners' claim of a moral jihad to depose the tyrants... One or the other. I'm positive it's something in between. Edit: The post above mine = My thoughts (to a degree) conveyed better than my ability to convey them. ender land: Justifications are justifications. I'm doubting random alliances were beaten up for fun and giggles. That's a little too simplistic. It's just the alliances that got beat up got a thorough thrashing, and maybe some of them didn't deserve what they recieved, though some certainly deserved their fates. Edited June 7, 2009 by PrideAssassin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Why thank you.I pride myself on my deficiencies. "Karma" still hasn't been explained to me though. A treaty chain with a little planning as a result of the OV incident (which was backed by grandoise claims, and all that good mess) vs. the hardliners' claim of a moral jihad to depose the tyrants... One or the other. I'm positive it's something in between. Anyone who says it wasn't planned is either grossly uninformed, or lying through their teeth. This war was planned for awhile, people were preparing for it for awhile, they were just waiting for the last few pieces to fall in place before doing anything about it. All the pieces that were up in the air when NPO declared, and there were a few, fell into place against the NPO. That's all. I'm not saying that this shouldn't have happened, I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it while it was going on, or that I wasn't glad to see certain alliances get theirs.. I'm just saying Karma is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Why thank you.I pride myself on my deficiencies. "Karma" still hasn't been explained to me though. A treaty chain with a little planning as a result of the OV incident (which was backed by grandoise claims, and all that good mess) vs. the hardliners' claim of a moral jihad to depose the tyrants... One or the other. I'm positive it's something in between. If I'm positive 1 + 1 = 3 that doesn't mean it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 If I'm positive 1 + 1 = 3 that doesn't mean it's true. Whatever helps you sleep at night brothaman. Okay, so the bloc that you claim isn't a bloc, bloc'd up to defeat the NPO for attempting to roll on OV? Now I am most thoroughly confused... Not too far from my natural state, but wowee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Well, if you wanted real change, and to make a true break from the "evils" of the past, I wouldn't go parading around being a poor imitation of those alliances you've seeked to overthrow, while preaching that you're making real progress or change or whatever they're throwing around these days.You have alliances that fought on the side of karma who have openly tried to force other alliances on the same side as theirs to bend to their will. I've seen people tell others "these actions won't be forgotten" or some variation thereof (I'm paraphrasing), implying that certain alliances are going to get theirs, yet they're on the SAME SIDE. And the most obvious of all, you had people trying to openly disparage the name of Ragnarok and GOD, for what? For doing what was best for their alliances? There's no change there, it's just people staking a claim to the throne that have absolutely no business doing so. So first things first, I'd do away with that nonsense, I'd do away with all the talk of "we're different" or "we're better" because it's not fooling anyone any longer. I'd be honest about what's going on. It's a power grab by certain people, certain alliances. They think they're more just and more honourable, which they think gives them the right to do the exact same things, as if that's not in the least bit hypocritical. So essentially you're saying people disagreed and tried to get their way before the war and they're still going to disagree and try to get their way now? While you're absolutely right about this, what on earth made you think this was ever in question? You do realise when people said "we different" they were talking about not enforcing viceroys, EZI, forcing disbandments/eternal wars, bogus CB's etc, and not about disagreeing on reps figures right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoDurkster Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) yes this war has been planned for a while... and ni wouldnt be suprised if the whole spy thing was on purpose.. for the specific cause of starting this. Edited June 7, 2009 by KenoDurkster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 My own opinion NPO are a good alliance and a good enemy. NPO have been beating anyone down who opposed them and making super power blocs to overwhelm any forming enemies. However as all bad guys go, they fall in a pit of lavva saying "Noooooo" or "I'll be back!".Anyway now all the opposing forces against NPO are joining together and making a new start. This is a win for the Karma side as it is clearly shown by statistics and political power. Yes because some of NPO's cronies that are on the Karma side, get freed from their past sins since they DW on NPO. Great change there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Yes because some of NPO's cronies that are on the Karma side, get freed from their past sins since they DW on NPO. Great change there. That was pretty cute, huh? Remember though, they've changed for the better for sure. Mmmhmmm. Yessir. No more of that dirty evil in their souls. Edited June 7, 2009 by PrideAssassin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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