NPO: Better With or Without?

[Matthew Conrad]

Talking in hypotheticals regarding history that actually occurred is a waste of time.

"Some unknown individual may have arrived and changed everything. WE MAY NEVER KNOW!?!?"

That's stupid. You're not even claiming anything, just making a baseless, unfounded statement that is devoid of any content.

The only force NPO-enough in its disposition capable of doing anything had the game survived an unfiltered LUE gross assault would have been FAN, and that would not have occurred for at least six months after LUE had arrived, and even longer before they were strong enough to take on a position powerful enough to enforce anything.

Let me tell you something...You know who advanced military strategy development in CN? Who introduced those things and made GWI itself a possibility? The NPO. Our R&D is what advanced gameplay. Our leaked game guides, our shared secrets with allies that would betray us, our emulators, all of that, was ultimately linked back to us.

Even FAN as a hypothetical NPO-like entity would likely not have become so fearsome anywhere near as fast had it not been for Pacifica. Let alone have the diplomatic finesse required to challenge the undisputed masters of the Cyberverse. Let me remind you again, all those big alliances? They were peaceniks, and uninterested in warfare, save the ODN in which case it wanted to eliminate the NPO. So, there would not have been any actual military conflicts going on, and this is even considering that CN would still possess a forum at this point. Or working at all.

You claim to not be contesting the issue of the forums. Thats nice, but what exactly are you contesting? What exactly is your belief founded upon? From what I can tell, it's nothing.

Once more, hypothesizing about generalized fantasies is stupid. And trying to defend that waste of time is even more stupid. And then attempting to present such ideas as legitimate historical analyses is the most stupid of all.

You realize you were the one replying to me at first right? I was answering a hypothetical scenario an NPO member put forth. You're the one stupid enough, looking around for arguments, to try to make one out of my posts which has nothing to do with you. Everything on here has to be an argument! You're the one who doesn't know how to post without trying to argue instead of putting in talking points. You sure like to line your posts with petty insults when you don't get your way.

I'm stupid for answering a hypothetical scenario with one of my own right? What Was I Thinking!!!! How about you post something of worth that's relevant to the post you quote?

[TehChron]

You realize you were the one replying to me at first right? I was answering a hypothetical scenario an NPO member put forth. You're the one stupid enough, looking around for arguments, to try to make one out of my posts which has nothing to do with you. Everything on here has to be an argument! You're the one who doesn't know how to post without trying to argue instead of putting in talking points. You sure like to line your posts with petty insults when you don't get your way.

I'm stupid for answering a hypothetical scenario with one of my own right? What Was I Thinking!!!! How about you post something of worth that's relevant to the post you quote?

Debunking your points is relevant to your post.

Im not saying you are "stupid" for trying to disprove something you disagree with, I am simply saying that the manner in which you decided to do it was one of the least intellectual options available to you. I also proceeded to, as already pointed out, debunk your ideas.

When you refused to back down, I became more and more blunt as you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the flaws in your reasoning as they were presented. Im hardly arguing.

Im telling you how it was. This isn't a debate.

[Matthew Conrad]

Debunking your points is relevant to your post.

Im not saying you are "stupid" for trying to disprove something you disagree with, I am simply saying that the manner in which you decided to do it was one of the least intellectual options available to you. I also proceeded to, as already pointed out, debunk your ideas.

When you refused to back down, I became more and more blunt as you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the flaws in your reasoning as they were presented. Im hardly arguing.

Im telling you how it was. This isn't a debate.

I don't want to break it to you, but you're hardly as clever as you believe yourself. It astounds me how set you are that you are the authority on everything. Let me put it in perspective.

You try to argue, yes argue, that I have somehow not provided a good basis for my scenario. I've pointed out historic evidence, something you grip dearly to, explaining that NPO started in a "world" generally like ours but that she didn't establish such culture there. You also use historical evidence trying to refute my points. Then, you proceed to insult me and call me petty names while ignoring the fact that I use the same method by which you make your arguments. You press on, saying that my scenario is clearly impossible. Clearly.

I refute that, once again, historical evidence points towards its possibility. After posting the same content for the 3rd time, you then turn to calling me intellectually deficient despite, once again, the fact that I have used the same methods as you in forming my hypothetical scenario.

Tell me, what does this say about you?

[TehChron]

I don't want to break it to you, but you're hardly as clever as you believe yourself. It astounds me how set you are that you are the authority on everything. Let me put it in perspective.

You try to argue, yes argue, that I have somehow not provided a good basis for my scenario. I've pointed out historic evidence, something you grip dearly to, explaining that NPO started in a "world" generally like ours but that she didn't establish such culture there. You also use historical evidence trying to refute my points. Then, you proceed to insult me and call me petty names while ignoring the fact that I use the same method by which you make your arguments. You press on, saying that my scenario is clearly impossible. Clearly.

I refute that, once again, historical evidence points towards its possibility. After posting the same content for the 3rd time, you then turn to calling me intellectually deficient despite, once again, the fact that I have used the same methods as you in forming my hypothetical scenario.

Tell me, what does this say about you?

Issue 1. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. In that "world" the NPO was a superpower much like it has been here. Due to the nature of that other "world" domination like what had been achieved here was impossible due to game mechanics.

Issue 2. What "points"? No, really. I don't see any.

Issue 3. Im not making arguments. That's what you seem to not be getting. I am making factual statements. I apologize if I was not clear before on that subject.

Issue 4. You have given no "historical evidence" to support your "Knight in Shining Armor" speculation. If you did, Id frankly be shocked to have missed it. I fail to see how your "methods" are the same as mine considering that, once again, what Ive been saying are almost entirely factual statements.

What it implies about me is that I know what Im talking about, whereas you? You are simply trying to defend your worldview and fantasies from that harsh mistress, reality.

[Matthew Conrad]

Issue 1. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. In that "world" the NPO was a superpower much like it has been here. Due to the nature of that other "world" domination like what had been achieved here was impossible due to game mechanics.

Issue 2. What "points"? No, really. I don't see any.

Issue 3. Im not making arguments. That's what you seem to not be getting. I am making factual statements. I apologize if I was not clear before on that subject.

Issue 4. You have given no "historical evidence" to support your "Knight in Shining Armor" speculation. If you did, Id frankly be shocked to have missed it. I fail to see how your "methods" are the same as mine considering that, once again, what Ive been saying are almost entirely factual statements.

What it implies about me is that I know what Im talking about, whereas you? You are simply trying to defend your worldview and fantasies from that harsh mistress, reality.

1. It's a shame, you've completely missed my point (ironic right?). I pointed towards the fact that NPO was not the developer of behavior as she was in this "world". Thus, I point out that such ability is not somehow magically inherent to NPO. This leads to the possibility of someone else filling the role NPO played at the beginning of civilizing CN. The fact that she is a superpower there is irrelevant. The fact that someone else, or as a collective of the public, developed a culture generally similar to ours without NPO being there is.

2. My point: Evidence points towards the probability that a similar culture to ours would have eventually developed in CN with or without NPO. How long it would have taken is relevant to NPO.

3. Okay, you're using historical facts to dispute the possibility of my claim. I have also used a fact (see #1)

4. Historical Evidence: see #1

I find you to be cowering from said harsh mistress.

[TehChron]

1. It's a shame, you've completely missed my point (ironic right?). I pointed towards the fact that NPO was not the developer of behavior as she was in this "world". Thus, I point out that such ability is not somehow magically inherent to NPO. This leads to the possibility of someone else filling the role NPO played at the beginning of civilizing CN. The fact that she is a superpower there is irrelevant. The fact that someone else, or as a collective of the public, developed a culture generally similar to ours without NPO being there is.

2. My point: Evidence points towards the probability that a similar culture to ours would have eventually developed in CN with or without NPO. How long it would have taken is relevant to NPO.

3. Okay, you're using historical facts to dispute the possibility of my claim. I have also used a fact (see #1)

4. Historical Evidence: see #1

I find you to be cowering from said harsh mistress.

Of course not. Because so many large groups had formed with the sole purpose of opposing Pacifica in that world, and since it would be impossible for any one group to enforce standards of behavior due to the circumstances there, the NPO did not. If you knew anything about that "world", you'd know full well that its only saving grace was the fact that it did not allow pictures to be posted in its forums. Your last sentence in your first point doesnt make any sense. And no, as I said, the communities that formed are the communities that would have formed as they would have formed. The lack of a Pacifica would not have magically lead to another group of people suddenly deciding they wanted to join CN.

Perhaps you are just underestimating how incredibly exceptional the NPO of that era truly was? And what was neccessary for the deeds that occurred to take place? If so, that can't be helped. As I said before, it's pointless to try and educate you on something you can't wrap your head around. Much like the fact that you have presented no "historical evidence" to validate your claims and speculation.

I really dont see what you're getting at with the rest of that post.

[Matthew Conrad]

Of course not. Because so many large groups had formed with the sole purpose of opposing Pacifica in that world, and since it would be impossible for any one group to enforce standards of behavior due to the circumstances there, the NPO did not. If you knew anything about that "world", you'd know full well that its only saving grace was the fact that it did not allow pictures to be posted in its forums. Your last sentence in your first point doesnt make any sense. And no, as I said, the communities that formed are the communities that would have formed as they would have formed. The lack of a Pacifica would not have magically lead to another group of people suddenly deciding they wanted to join CN.

Perhaps you are just underestimating how incredibly exceptional the NPO of that era truly was? And what was neccessary for the deeds that occurred to take place? If so, that can't be helped. As I said before, it's pointless to try and educate you on something you can't wrap your head around. Much like the fact that you have presented no "historical evidence" to validate your claims and speculation.

I really dont see what you're getting at with the rest of that post.

Exactly, NPO didn't enforce standards of behavior there, thus it didn't have the same effect as it did here. Some other entity or limitation developed it. This provides an example in which similar behavior, though more RP heavy, can develop without NPO. You seem to assume all boards suddenly become unreadable and barbaric if there is no one besides mods there to enforce proper behavior.

Once again, the absence of NPO would have led to those communities eventually evolving into another form. Even NPO itself has changed through the years. You present nothing new to your argument as you are just speculating the alliances of CN would remain unchanged without NPO. Did it not only take one person to begin the change in which NPO rose? Are you so blind as to suggest such a person would never take reign in CN in NPO's absence?

[TehChron]

Exactly, NPO didn't enforce standards of behavior there, thus it didn't have the same effect as it did here. Some other entity or limitation developed it. This provides an example in which similar behavior, though more RP heavy, can develop without NPO. You seem to assume all boards suddenly become unreadable and barbaric if there is no one besides mods there to enforce proper behavior.

Once again, the absence of NPO would have led to those communities eventually evolving into another form. Even NPO itself has changed through the years. You present nothing new to your argument as you are just speculating the alliances of CN would remain unchanged without NPO. Did it not only take one person to begin the change in which NPO rose? Are you so blind as to suggest such a person would never take reign in CN in NPO's absence?

Issue 1: They WERE unreadable and barbaric. Once again, you're speaking from a position of inexperience.

As for the rest of your post....You really are a fool. The NPO under Ivan Moldavi was perhaps the single greatest collection of political minds any online game has ever seen. It was not "one person", it was all of them. ALL OF THEM. I'll repeat myself again, here; Im not making an argument, I am pointing out what actually happened, to you, who was not there to experience it.

You can dismiss what im saying as a mere "argument", but the sheer ignorance you possess of what actually occurred, blinds you to what happened. You don't get it. It was the sheer exceptionality of the New Pacific Order that allowed it to accomplish what it did. The fact that you blindly assume that they were a replicatable group does nothing more than underscore your sheer ignorance of CN history, and how that should exclude you from ever trying to act like an authority on it.

[Matthew Conrad]

Issue 1: They WERE unreadable and barbaric. Once again, you're speaking from a position of inexperience.

As for the rest of your post....You really are a fool. The NPO under Ivan Moldavi was perhaps the single greatest collection of political minds any online game has ever seen. It was not "one person", it was all of them. ALL OF THEM. I'll repeat myself again, here; Im not making an argument, I am pointing out what actually happened, to you, who was not there to experience it.

You can dismiss what im saying as a mere "argument", but the sheer ignorance you possess of what actually occurred, blinds you to what happened. You don't get it. It was the sheer exceptionality of the New Pacific Order that allowed it to accomplish what it did. The fact that you blindly assume that they were a replicatable group does nothing more than underscore your sheer ignorance of CN history, and how that should exclude you from ever trying to act like an authority on it.

There were not barbaric without the NPO. The NPO did not tame the boards. They developed civility without your revolution. You are so ignorantly blind that you can't put one and one together.

Have you honestly played every online game there is? I can honestly tell you there are many that are far more complex in scope and politics than CN. But no, NPO clearly had the most brilliant collection of individuals ever seen by the world. Perhaps they should form their own real country and take over. I mean, they are that brilliant right? Your sheer arrogance is what is astounding. Just because you were a part of that group, you have that unbias observation that they were a team of invincible men and women right? If they were ever remotely as brilliant as you hold them to be (not saying he didn't have a pretty crack group of people, many of whom lead successful alliances today), I guess they wouldn't have lost the Great War I. I guess their political maneuvering would have been so genius as to most of Planet Bob would have joined them, no? You really are an old burn out who can't see beyond your past glory.

[TehChron]

There were not barbaric without the NPO. The NPO did not tame the boards. They developed civility without your revolution. You are so ignorantly blind that you can't put one and one together.

Have you honestly played every online game there is? I can honestly tell you there are many that are far more complex in scope and politics than CN. But no, NPO clearly had the most brilliant collection of individuals ever seen by the world. Perhaps they should form their own real country and take over. I mean, they are that brilliant right? Your sheer arrogance is what is astounding. Just because you were a part of that group, you have that unbias observation that they were a team of invincible men and women right? If they were ever remotely as brilliant as you hold them to be (not saying he didn't have a pretty crack group of people, many of whom lead successful alliances today), I guess they wouldn't have lost the Great War I. I guess their political maneuvering would have been so genius as to most of Planet Bob would have joined them, no? You really are an old burn out who can't see beyond your past glory.

What is that first sentence? Its just rambling and makes no sense. Where was barbaric without the NPO? What boards? Who developed civility? And the phrase is "two and two"...Wait, or are you implying Im blind and therefore cant do math? Thats an offensive and stupid comparison to make.

Are you calling blind people mentally handicapped now? How incredibly crude.

Insofar as the founding Pacificans go? I was not part of that group, at most I was an errand boy, but let me tell you something. The arrogant one here is you. They would have won Great War I save for the Legion's uncalled for backstabbing.

The fact of the matter is, the bandwagoning of the CoaLUEtion was the result of a lot of backstabbing and jealousy among the CoaLUEtion alliances. Not the result of failures on their part.

If you're going to accuse a group that actually took on the entirety of the rest of the game and came out stronger for it of incompetence...You clearly have lost all grip on logic. But hey, I wasnt accusing you of using it to begin with.

[Matthew Conrad]

What is that first sentence? Its just rambling and makes no sense. Where was barbaric without the NPO? What boards? Who developed civility? And the phrase is "two and two"...Wait, or are you implying Im blind and therefore cant do math? Thats an offensive and stupid comparison to make.

Are you calling blind people mentally handicapped now? How incredibly crude.

Insofar as the founding Pacificans go? I was not part of that group, at most I was an errand boy, but let me tell you something. The arrogant one here is you. They would have won Great War I save for the Legion's uncalled for backstabbing.

The fact of the matter is, the bandwagoning of the CoaLUEtion was the result of a lot of backstabbing and jealousy among the CoaLUEtion alliances. Not the result of failures on their part.

If you're going to accuse a group that actually took on the entirety of the rest of the game and came out stronger for it of incompetence...You clearly have lost all grip on logic. But hey, I wasnt accusing you of using it to begin with.

My apologies for "there" I meant "They". Anyways, is your vocabulary so small that you really can't think of insults better than "stupid"? If you're going to take pot shots, at least diversify! Honestly, I could go your route and just call your argument stupid and... what is that word I'm looking for... oh yeah. Stupid. Or I can take a mistype and call it "rambling". Let me go find the grammar police for this job! Eh, never mind, I'd rather not stoop to your level.

Were you not among the first batch of GWI veterans or were you just speaking out of your $@!? I'd choose the first if I were you.

Only the fool blames his failures on others. If that group of leaders were as brilliant as you idolized them to be, then they would have planned and made sure betrayals wouldn't have happened by whichever method they wished. Be that by incentive or fear it matters not. The fact is that they play the game well enough to win the war. Rebuilding was a result of their drive to improve and they played the game better after wards. But, they were clearly not as invincible as you make them out to be.

[Haflinger]

I don't think any major alliance allows tech raiding anymore (correct me if I'm wrong).

Uhh... what?

Sanctioned alliances that allow raiding include IRON, FOK, Fark, and Ragnarok. There are plenty of other large alliances that allow it.

[Matthew Conrad]

Uhh... what?

Sanctioned alliances that allow raiding include IRON, FOK, Fark, and Ragnarok. There are plenty of other large alliances that allow it.

My mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

[TehChron]

My apologies for "there" I meant "They". Anyways, is your vocabulary so small that you really can't think of insults better than "stupid"? If you're going to take pot shots, at least diversify! Honestly, I could go your route and just call your argument stupid and... what is that word I'm looking for... oh yeah. Stupid. Or I can take a mistype and call it "rambling". Let me go find the grammar police for this job! Eh, never mind, I'd rather not stoop to your level.

Were you not among the first batch of GWI veterans or were you just speaking out of your $@!? I'd choose the first if I were you.

Only the fool blames his failures on others. If that group of leaders were as brilliant as you idolized them to be, then they would have planned and made sure betrayals wouldn't have happened by whichever method they wished. Be that by incentive or fear it matters not. The fact is that they play the game well enough to win the war. Rebuilding was a result of their drive to improve and they played the game better after wards. But, they were clearly not as invincible as you make them out to be.

I was. I did not lead Pacifica, but I helped the war machine in every war post PWI. I was always a foot soldier for Pacifica. But let me tell ya something...When an argument is devoid of logical reasoning, thought, or even substance "stupid" is an apt adjective to describe it. I am hardly "insulting" you by calling your arguments for what they are, if you came up with better ones, I would address them on their merits.

Presently, your points have none, and therefore will be treated as such.

Equivalency does not exist. It is a false assumption made by those who feel bad for individuals who speak out of their asses regarding issues they know nothing about. In historical context there are only two defintions that matter:

What did happen, and what did not happen.

And ironically, that equates into....What is correct, and what is not. You fall into the latter category. All of your attempts to rationalize your statements as being equal in substance and value to my own are utterly and completely futile. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The NPO went after LUE after securing the promises of GATO, ODN, and Legion at the time to either stay out or help them take down LUE. Considering that at the time, those three alliances were headed by individuals and groups which were only interested in taking down the Orders Hyperpower hegemony during that period, it really isnt too much of a stretch that they would stab the NPO in the back the moment it appeared they had a viable shot at winning.

Legion only stepped in at the fulcrum point when they felt they had a good enough excuse to do so. Securing promises only to be lied to? Sorry, but blatant betrayals like that can't be prepared for, period.

Considering all this. And considering how your point is that another NPO-like entity would have emerged prior to LUEs arrival had we never formed...Surely, by now, you realize the depth of your ignorance in claiming that a perfect storm like what occured with Pacifica's creation would have taken place regardless of our existence?

Edited May 10, 2009 by ReturnOfChron

[Matthew Conrad]

I was. I did not lead Pacifica, but I helped the war machine in every war post PWI. I was always a foot soldier for Pacifica. But let me tell ya something...When an argument is devoid of logical reasoning, thought, or even substance "stupid" is an apt adjective to describe it. I am hardly "insulting" you by calling your arguments for what they are, if you came up with better ones, I would address them on their merits.

Presently, your points have none, and therefore will be treated as such.

Equivalency does not exist. It is a false assumption made by those who feel bad for individuals who speak out of their asses regarding issues they know nothing about. In historical context there are only two defintions that matter:

What did happen, and what did not happen.

And ironically, that equates into....What is correct, and what is not. You fall into the latter category. All of your attempts to rationalize your statements as being equal in substance and value to my own are utterly and completely futile. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

The NPO went after LUE after securing the promises of GATO, ODN, and Legion at the time to either stay out or help them take down LUE. Considering that at the time, those three alliances were headed by individuals and groups which were only interested in taking down the Orders Hyperpower hegemony during that period, it really isnt too much of a stretch that they would stab the NPO in the back the moment it appeared they had a viable shot at winning.

Legion only stepped in at the fulcrum point when they felt they had a good enough excuse to do so. Securing promises only to be lied to? Sorry, but blatant betrayals like that can't be prepared for, period.

Considering all this. And considering how your point is that another NPO-like entity would have emerged prior to LUEs arrival had we never formed...Surely, by now, you realize the depth of your ignorance in claiming that a perfect storm like what occured with Pacifica's creation would have taken place regardless of our existence?

Your rationalization is flawed and only exist to cover your failures. It holds nothing of value to the argument as you have once again stated the meaningless reasons as to why you lost. The point is that you lost. Yes, NPO learned and became stronger for it but you still could not hold your allies to their word. Your rambling won't change the fact that NPO just couldn't play the game well enough at the time. You can argue history as much as you want but you're just stating opinions as to what you think those alliances would have done in NPO's absence. You are now disparately grabbing for any rationalization you can find but your opinions about what would have happened are hardly facts.

Honestly, if you can't find any adequate response I wouldn't keep contradicting yourself. I mean, you were and are stating opinions but no, I though you were only stating facts? If you really want to do another futile argument about that fact, I can look up the definition of opinion and fact for you.

[TehChron]

Honestly, if you can't find any adequate response I wouldn't keep contradicting yourself. I mean, you were and are stating opinions but no, I though you were only stating facts? If you really want to do another futile argument about that fact, I can look up the definition of opinion and fact for you.

Please do. But then again, at least Im remembering what this lecture was about to begin with. And it wasn't about whether or not the NPO lost the Great Patriotic War. And what do you mean by "I wouldn't keep contradicting yourself".

Are you losing your sense of identity in addition to your sense of logic? If so, I apologize. I also apologize for when, in the near future, I point out how your thoughts dont even meet the criteria required to qualify as an "opinion.

[aboooe]

Wow 168 people, including me sure do like cake.

[Matthew Conrad]

Please do. But then again, at least Im remembering what this lecture was about to begin with. And it wasn't about whether or not the NPO lost the Great Patriotic War. And what do you mean by "I wouldn't keep contradicting yourself".

Are you losing your sense of identity in addition to your sense of logic? If so, I apologize. I also apologize for when, in the near future, I point out how your thoughts dont even meet the criteria required to qualify as an "opinion.

You're not lecturing me on anything. I doubt many care for your arrogance in reciting what everyone knows already happened. It really doesn't matter what you think about my opinion as now you are contesting the definition of an opinion.

o⋅pin⋅ion

   /əˈpɪnyən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA

–noun

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

As you will certainly notice, or are you blind in your own arrogance, that my views are personal views and appraisals. Why don't you argue against the dictionary?

And yes, the NPO definitely lost GW1, I really don't give a rat's $@! how you try to rationalize your obvious failures. Also, I see I might need to teach you the definition of contradiction in my next post as you seem to have lost its meaning (or never understood it in the first place).

[Orkules]

NPO made this game what it is today. I wish it weren't true but it is. They made this world, they are reaping what they have sown. Truthfully, I am sad that is has come to this reckoning in order to just be somewhat free but it has.

I'm going to take your question as from here on out and I believe yes. They are still a power and I hope they will be after this war someday. Hopefully if the anticipated factions do form then Pacifica will eventually arise to lead or participate in one of them. I also hope that they've learned to choose their friends wisely, though until that day comes I seriously doubt it. But yes, Pacifica deserves to be here after we're done and I think the game is better for it.

[TehChron]

You're not lecturing me on anything. I doubt many care for your arrogance in reciting what everyone knows already happened. It really doesn't matter what you think about my opinion as now you are contesting the definition of an opinion.

o⋅pin⋅ion

   /əˈpɪnyən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA

–noun

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

As you will certainly notice, or are you blind in your own arrogance, that my views are personal views and appraisals. Why don't you argue against the dictionary?

And yes, the NPO definitely lost GW1, I really don't give a rat's $@! how you try to rationalize your obvious failures. Also, I see I might need to teach you the definition of contradiction in my next post as you seem to have lost its meaning (or never understood it in the first place).

So then why are you arguing with me again? Didnt you have a so-called "opinion" back there somewhere?

I see you...flaming me and making claims? You don't cite any reason for them, and then resort to going offtopic in some ill-advised bid to one-up me. If you have presented a personal view, attitude, or appraisal of any situation, feel free to tell me what it is. Because I have yet to see it.

Insofar as the first definition goes...Well, frankly. I believe that since you conceded I was pointing out stuff everyone already knows to be correct, you have acknowledged lacking even a belief or judgment of any kind that contradicts my testimony of CN history.

Feel free to try again, though. I find im rather enjoying this.

[Matthew Conrad]

So then why are you arguing with me again? Didnt you have a so-called "opinion" back there somewhere?

I see you...flaming me and making claims? You don't cite any reason for them, and then resort to going offtopic in some ill-advised bid to one-up me. If you have presented a personal view, attitude, or appraisal of any situation, feel free to tell me what it is. Because I have yet to see it.

Insofar as the first definition goes...Well, frankly. I believe that since you conceded I was pointing out stuff everyone already knows to be correct, you have acknowledged lacking even a belief or judgment of any kind that contradicts my testimony of CN history.

Feel free to try again, though. I find im rather enjoying this.

I sincerely doubt I'm the one flaming here. Leave your backseat moderation claims elsewhere as you were the one to initially call me and my posts stupid if I'm not mistaken. I've noticed through the course of this that you will resort to simply calling anything you disagree with stupid without even the tiniest hint of feasibility. You've pointed out history. I've pointed out history. Okay, nice work there... I guess you've conceded that my points are correct too. Tell me once where I've gone off-topic of my argument. I really don't see why you are still trying to prove me wrong seeing as you have no basis.

If you don't want to argue, then don't. I was originally referring to the first person I quoted until you found yourself necessary to intercede for some god given reason.

[willirica]

too early to tell, we will see how long it takes for the next war

[TehChron]

I sincerely doubt I'm the one flaming here. Leave your backseat moderation claims elsewhere as you were the one to initially call me and my posts stupid if I'm not mistaken. I've noticed through the course of this that you will resort to simply calling anything you disagree with stupid without even the tiniest hint of feasibility. You've pointed out history. I've pointed out history. Okay, nice work there... I guess you've conceded that my points are correct too. Tell me once where I've gone off-topic of my argument. I really don't see why you are still trying to prove me wrong seeing as you have no basis.

If you don't want to argue, then don't. I was originally referring to the first person I quoted until you found yourself necessary to intercede for some god given reason.

Yet you have not pointed out history. At all. Feel free to quote yourself, I wait with baited breath for the examples. And as I said already, if I see something I disagree with that has any merit, I will address it in a matter befitting what it deserves. I do not see how I have said anything unfair or can be considered "flaming" if it is correct.

Alrighty then, here is how you are off-topic:

What does your previous post have to do with the likelihood of another, unknown force arising in Pacifica's absence prior to the LUE invasion to bring about some form of standards of acceptable conduct? Because that was what you were claiming.

If you actually believe something so utterly baseless, then I would be frankly shocked, because you never actually described it as something you held to be true. And I assumed, based off your posting, that you were just being incendiary and trying to catch everyone's attention with such unrealistic hypothesizing.

And I dont recall ever "arguing" with you, you're certainly arguing with me...and losing...and I find that entertaining. But I am telling you what happened, and what you are doing. I am not disproving your talking points, I am describing them for what they are, and then dismissing them utterly as pointless and irrelevant.

[unruly]

Lord Acton put it best in the real world "absolute power ... "

[Matthew Conrad]

Yet you have not pointed out history. At all. Feel free to quote yourself, I wait with baited breath for the examples. And as I said already, if I see something I disagree with that has any merit, I will address it in a matter befitting what it deserves. I do not see how I have said anything unfair or can be considered "flaming" if it is correct.

Alrighty then, here is how you are off-topic:

What does your previous post have to do with the likelihood of another, unknown force arising in Pacifica's absence prior to the LUE invasion to bring about some form of standards of acceptable conduct? Because that was what you were claiming.

If you actually believe something so utterly baseless, then I would be frankly shocked, because you never actually described it as something you held to be true. And I assumed, based off your posting, that you were just being incendiary and trying to catch everyone's attention with such unrealistic hypothesizing.

And I dont recall ever "arguing" with you, you're certainly arguing with me...and losing...and I find that entertaining. But I am telling you what happened, and what you are doing. I am not disproving your talking points, I am describing them for what they are, and then dismissing them utterly as pointless and irrelevant.

If you would so kindly look at which I first pointed towards the development of behavior in another "world" before Pacifica's existence there, I think that would fit the definition of history, no?

As you will also notice, my hypothesis clearly described a situation in which a force would "eventually" arise to take NPO's place, after the establishment of LUE. Perhaps if you would read my posts rather than scan through them and then post nonsense not even in context of whatever of mine you quote you would make yourself look less like someone lurking for something to defame (and you're quite poor at it). Looks like you need to try harder next time. But keep going by all means, your struggle to find valid attacks is quite amusing if nothing else.