Navy (don't be a dork and flame)

[LynnCreed]

Okay, we all know that a Navy would be too much like the cn air force for it to be any fun, right? well, what if a navy could do something other than what the air force does, which is take out infra and tanks? since it's banned to make a navy suggestion i figured I would post this here. i know it's a good rule to keep the n00bs from posting 15 navy threads a day but i didn't think there could be any harm in discussing ways to make a good navy suggestion.

*Edited to include specifics. Not done editing though.*

Obviously all details are subject to tweaking by the admin to make coding easier. The details are there to make the Navy more interesting but aren't essential.

Navies will have mostly indirect military objectives (in other words they’ll be used to defend against planes, blockade trades, etc instead of directly damaging the foe’s nation). Navy ships (except carriers) will have the same base costs and strength as Planes. Why? Several reasons:

Smaller nations won’t be able to afford a Navy if costs are too high, plus they’re balanced so that they’re about as powerful as (or less than) the planes anyway. There’s also three different classes to buy, so it will take most nations a while to get a full Navy and Air Force even with the costs as low as the planes. Plus it’s easier to code that way.

Because of the multiple ship classes, the max number of Navy ships will be 70 (80 with Water or something appropriate). Like tanks, ships have to be deployed. Each attack (up to 2) will consist of all deployed ships. Since this would make each attack very powerful, all above-water ships are vulnerable to bombing. Which enemy ships get sunk will be determined at random but will be effected by things like defense level.

Suggested complementary Improvement: merchant ships, add a percentage of income, up to 2 and you need a Harbor

Maintenance: $200

100 infra, 10 tech, $10,000 Strength 1

200 infra, 20 tech, $15,000 Strength 2

300 infra, 30 tech, $20,000 Strength 3

400 infra, 40 tech, $25,000 Strength 4

500 infra, 50 tech, $30,000 Strength 5

600 infra, 60 tech, $35,000 Strength 6

700 infra, 70 tech, $40,000 Strength 7

850 infra, 85 tech, $45,000 Strength 8

1000 infra, 100 tech, $50,000 Strength 9

Submarines: Submarines can be used to sink enemy battleships OR (would need a box to check before clicking ‘Attack’) to blockade enemy trades. Successful attacks sink enemy ships and successful blockades will cancel the effects of one resource at random per attack on next tax collection (if collection takes place the following day). In addition, a deployed submarine collects additional intelligence on the nation it is deployed against. Everything the war screen doesn’t already tell you – such as the fighter versus bomber make-up of a nation’s air force, for example – a deployed sub would. Submarines also have double the infra defense tanks do.

Cruisers: Can missile foe’s nation directly, but only does up to 5 infra in damage since its attacks will be limited to the coast line. Can also attack other ships (again, would need a check box). Cruisers will also act like defensive Fighters, and will shoot down incoming planes (maybe missiles too?).

Destroyers: Can be used to sink/defend all other ships. They’re the Fighters of the Navy.

Carriers: Carriers’ levels reflect defensive levels. In addition to their normal attributes, each level of carrier adds 2% to aircraft strength. Level 1 gives 2%, level 2 gives 4, etc. Having carriers in more than one level is not cumulative, (you’ll get the bonus for the highest level) nor does it matter how many in that level you have. Having a level 9 carrier will also give you a +5 aircraft limit. Must be deployed to receive bonus, and because they are so powerful each level costs $10,000 more than normal (in other words level 1 would cost $20,000). Other than that, no real military value. Having more than one per level really just helps make sure you don’t lose your bonus easily.

Edited October 25, 2007 by LynnCreed

[Drai]

I think something that could tie in with spy-efficiency would be neat, also maybe they could battle aircraft themselves.

[Imperial Empire]

Here's a suggestion that should be given more thought i think.

I believe that this person was on the right track.

[Viridia]

Wouldnt this belong in the Suggestion box?

[LynnCreed]

no, since it's discussion and not a suggestion, yet. i'll modify to include the stuff in the thread Small Force cited

[LynnCreed]

I think something that could tie in with spy-efficiency would be neat, also maybe they could battle aircraft themselves.

how would having boats help spy efficiency?

[Kingdom of Royalty]

I think the suggestions in the original post are pretty good, it would give something extra for bigger nations to purchase instead of improvements

The only problem I see though is that some seem improvement-like, and some seem military-like. I'm not sure how that would fit with the current interface/system which the war system is based upon.

Some general thoughts here, please dont shout at me :

As aircraft in the real world are generally purchased from other countries etc, ships take a long time to build, and so add a different dimension and strategy to the war system. Some ideas:

Cruiser - (Build time: 20 days): They are fairly expensive to produce, upkeep costs are quite expensive, instead of being deploy-based, make it aircraft-based and they can send 3 "missiles" a day to whomever at war (not cruise missiles, a new "missile" which does less damage). Number of cruisers allowed = Land *0.01 (1 per 50 land)...

Aircraft Carrier (Build time: 10 days): Adds an extra attack per day, only one deployed per nation at war... Number allowed = 1 per 100 land?

Submarine: (Build time: 15 days)Used to detect enemy cruisers, submarines per nation, reduces effectiveness/chance of a cruisers missile attack. Max 50 ?

Destroyers: (Build time: 5 days) Can engage with eachother and also attack mentioned above, different attacks can be used like with the military system (such as attack other destroyers, at will attack on aircraft carrier/cruiser), different strategies can work best in certain situations, for example if opposing nation has little destroyers then attacks on aircraft carrirs are likely, otherwise the best attack method is engage battle with destroyers, and you only are allowed one one attack per day, you therefore have to spend many days reducing the amount of destroyers before you have good chances of sinking an aircraft carrier/cruiser... This will sustain war for a duration of 5 days so thinking in advance is needed.

Of course most of that probably wouldn't work and would have to be thought out how it would work realistically, but maybe the ideas could be useful..

[LynnCreed]

you're looking at this from a U.S. perspective. if the countries that build planes for us were CN countries, they would have to deal with the plane-building time. i think if you're going to put a build-time on one it has to go on the other too.

[unbiased mod]

now this is a good idea, make it a good discussion and maybe admin will see and give thoughts.

[Kingdom of Royalty]

I like the suggestions though they seem too powerful, some restrictions would need to be put into place. Maybe not a build-time, but something else which realistically limits the amount you can have and to what extent they can be used.

The trouble with a cruiser is it would be too powerful to have more than 1, however just being able to own one seems pretty boring as everyone would purchase 1 and leave it as that. Hence I thought maybe a build time and also large upkeep costs to stop potential quick-attacks which may arsie (or something like that) and add a degree of strategy...

If build time does not fit in with the rest of the battle system, what about deploy time then instead? This would be realistic as we know aircraft can attack pretty quick whereas it would take a ship a few days to reach battle.It also costs money to deploy them, which is also realistic with fuel costs and so on. This would be based on the spy idea where once you have purchased the spies, it still costs extra money to attack with the spies.

If not, tone the navy features down so it is possible to purchase multiple ones so it would be more like the aircraft system..

I think if the system was based on a mix of the aircraft/spy/military system that would be intresting

Again, just thoughts and ideas

Edited October 21, 2007 by Kingdom of Royalty

[LynnCreed]

I'm gonna add levels and such and balance it out sometime during the week. There's the problems mentioned above and then there's the money issue. military items shouldn't cost so much. not even the spies cost as much as these ships.

Thanks Mr. Mod! I like Jackson better on Stargate but you probably already know he's better. :-P jk.

Edited October 22, 2007 by LynnCreed

[Jack Grist]

hmm, im just giving out a open minded thing here:

Ok, Submarines could be used and are set in your nations waters right? Well, maybe you can deploy your submarines and destroy enemy submarines, like spy's, and the nation that destroyed your sub will not always be found. You can only use a Sub once per day and can do the following thing:

Option 1: Gives you the ability to Luanch 2 more Cruise Missiles when your at war

Option 2: Destroy an enemy sub (wont always work, and could get your sub destroyed)

You can have a total of 20 Subs and when you destroy enemy sub the outcome will be measured by how high your tech level is.

If you hate this idea, please dont flame, just be nice about it and say, dont think it will work. Or make an improvement about it.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Jack Grist

[LynnCreed]

2 more missiles sounds a bit extreme

[Jack Grist]

What about 1 more missile then?

[Kingdom of Royalty]

I think you are struggling to get the admin to implement extra missiles UNLESS it is very balanced, it may otherwise affect the balance of the war system.. At most 1 extra missiles..

[Renolds]

I think it would be better to have the navy system revolve around aircraft carriers. in my idea aircraft carriers provide a given extra percentage of damage for aircraft strikes (much like the cruise missile improvements) and have destroyers/cruisers/battleships protect their nations aircraft carriers or attack the enemy's carriers.

Varying standards of carriers based on how much tech you have (much like the current aircraft purchasing system) give better percentages with aircraft attacks e.g. You have 500 tech and you can buy a level 2 aircraft carrier, this will give you x% extra damage per aircraft attack. The same can be done with the battleships.

[Fistandantilus]

Ive been agenst alot of navy ideas before, but im really likeing this one. Here are my thoughts on the subject:

-No build time(it just dosnt work well with the system).

-Im liking the aircraft caryer idea, but I think it just need some tweeking. Like aircraft carriers increces the effectiveness of youre planes(like how satalites do for missles, because adding another airstrike is just to powerful and it really raises issues on how to cap them). I also think aircaft carriers should be capped at 5(or the whol navey should have a certan strength cap, like the airforce). I would also reduce the cost to 1 mil and make the tech reqirement 150 tech(and you cant buy upgraded carriers/ships(for that would make them to much like aircraft), they just get better with tech). And I think that there should be 3 types of ships:

-Battle ships: attack enemy land and infa, 150k a pop

-Crusers: The figters of the navy, defend and attack subs and battleships. 100k a pop

-Aircraft carryers: Increse the effectiveness of aircraft, 1 mil a pop, limit 5

Also, there should be a limit of 1 "navy" attack per day(this way there no overpowered).

What do you guys think?

[Azure Mantle1]

The key to a proper implementation of a navy is to make them a support class, NOT a direct attack. We have enough direct attack as it is. And realistically, that's what the Navy has shifted towards in modern times.

Like what's already been suggested, the Navy must increase the speed, accuracy, and efficiency of the military. Ideas such as raising the aircraft cap, allowing extra cruise missile attacks, and improved intelligence gathering are all excellent examples. And even then, these are all simple enhancements, there are many more possibilities.

But allowing the Navy to improve or add twists to prexisting elements, it'll make the game a lot more interesting than if we were to simply tack on yet another attack option.

There should definitely be a cap to the number of ships you can create. Otherwise, the Navy system will inevitably become "boring." The most powerful nations won't have to worry about customizing their navy, they simply buy everything and get all the benefits. The key is to make the navy as customizable as possible from nation to nation, allowing players to choose their benefits to suit their playing style.

[Jack Grist]

What about Navy Seals

- They are like soldiers, except they could be more trained and powerful in battle (they would fly in from a chopper)

[Azure Mantle1]

How about Navy football?

Anyway, just because it has Navy in it doesn't mean it has anything to do with the Navy system. Besides, Navy SEALs = United States, and even if they were implemented it would be simply "Special Forces."

[gothmog3]

What about ships that defend against aircraft/missile attacks? Like a radar ship or something.

Just a suggestion *shrug*

[Jack Grist]

Actually, that would be very nice, but then, over the top. I think if that was to happen it would have to be randomized.

[LynnCreed]

i'll be taking all of your comments into consideration when i do the levels. any ideas on more boat types?

[Krashnaia]

Someone has pointed out that the Navy should not be a "direct attack" class, but a "support" class.

I agree. And, to my opinion, the Navy would serve one main purpose: Blockade the enemy nation.

Could work as follows:

If the enemy Navy is liquidated, you can Deploy your navy to blockade the enemy nation. Deployed ships can't be used on defense and her maintenance costs are increased.

A blockaded nation loses all his trade agreements (or has their effects nullified or reduced for the duration of the blockade - the higher the blockading navy, the higher the effect) and is unable to receive Foreign Aid (or has a random percentage of it lost to the blockading ships - the higher the blockading navy, the higher the effect).

Basically would work like a Team Sanction.

An aditional efect could be that the blockaded nation can't attack enemy nations with soldiers and tanks (can't deploy military, and all deployed military is lost) for the duration of the blockade (it can still attack with cruise missiles, aircraft and nukes)

Those effects would add a whole new dimension on warfare. Having your trade disrupted would have dire effects to your war effort, and even more if you are blocked from your banking nations!

Edited October 23, 2007 by Krashnaia

[LynnCreed]

blocking all trades seems pretty extreme to me, and is unfair to people w/ poor resources. how about instead for every Navy attack w/ a certain kind of ship the effects of a traded-for resource will be negated for the next day? you could go up to 2, it would be random, and it would keep people from abusing it while still making it a powerful attack