CNRP OOC Thread

[King Kevz]

Again, not necessarily. The funding issue wouldn't be so bad for a large, technologically advanced nation (such as Rebel Army, or RL U.S.).

Leaks can be patched, radiation (and temperature) can be dealt with by simply living a little ways underground (caves are perfect for this). We currently have the capability of making artificial Electro-Magnetic Fields not unlike our own planet's EM Field, which could provide further insulation from the radiation. And speaking of insulation--it's not that hard to make materials that keep the heat in.

The drilling for water would probably be done with an unmanned probe first.

Bio, no, it's not. It is someone attempting to reason it out.

Of course the funding issue would be a serious issue. Right now the American space program probally costs quite a bit and that is with just getting stuff into space, imagine trying to set up a colony on a different planet.

Are you saying we have the technology to send people and equipment to mars with the ability to establish a fully functioning self contained colony now or within the next twenty years?

One of the main reasons that this is available is simply that it is able to be done In-Game. If there were not Mars and Moon Bases In-Game, no, they would probably not be available here, however with Lavo, and I believe V's completion of the IG wonder it becomes available. Much as we do nearly everything around here. If you have it IG, you have it in the RP.

Sarah I have nukes in game. Shall I make them have a warhead of say 1000000000000 megatons? No? Why not I have nukes in game so I guess I can have 100000000000 megation nukes in the rp.

Edited November 2, 2009 by King Kevz

[Subtleknifewielder]

One of the main reasons that this is available is simply that it is able to be done In-Game. If there were not Mars and Moon Bases In-Game, no, they would probably not be available here, however with Lavo, and I believe V's completion of the IG wonder it becomes available. Much as we do nearly everything around here. If you have it IG, you have it in the RP.

Although we do provide exception for the Nuclear Power Plant--not having it does not mean you can't RP nuclear power, just that you are limited to fission, and having it means you can RP Fusion power.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Of course the funding issue would be a serious issue. Right now the American space program probally costs quite a bit and that is with just getting stuff into space, imagine trying to set up a colony on a different planet.

Are you saying we have the technology to send people and equipment to mars with the ability to establish a fully functioning self contained colony now or within the next twenty years?

With a degree of foresight, and enough funds, yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Although obviously a few things would need to be shipped every so often, but on the whole, yes, we can establish a self-supporting colony with the technology we have right now.

Sarah I have nukes in game. Shall I make them have a warhead of say 1000000000000 megatons? No? Why not I have nukes in game so I guess I can have 100000000000 megation nukes in the rp.

Now, Kevz, that would be completely ridiculous, as such a concept is not even considered within the realm of possibility for the next century...

Edited November 2, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[King Kevz]

With a degree of foresight, and enough funds, yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Although obviously a few things would need to be shipped every so often, but on the whole, yes, we can establish a self-supporting colony with the technology we have right now.

Now, Kevz, that would be completely ridiculous, as such a concept is not even considered within the realm of possibility for the next century...

We can then thats pretty awesome. As for the second point no it isn't Sarah said you have it IG you have it in RP. I have nukes IG ths I have nukes in the RP. However, there is no limit to the warhead size IG thus there is no limit in the RP.

[Subtleknifewielder]

We can then thats pretty awesome. As for the second point no it isn't Sarah said you have it IG you have it in RP. I have nukes IG ths I have nukes in the RP. However, there is no limit to the warhead size IG thus there is no limit in the RP.

Trust me, the nukes we have ingame are not that powerful...so you can't have them...

There, is that a better answer?

[Sarah Tintagyl]

We can then thats pretty awesome. As for the second point no it isn't Sarah said you have it IG you have it in RP. I have nukes IG ths I have nukes in the RP. However, there is no limit to the warhead size IG thus there is no limit in the RP.

Yes but as has already taken place, Lynneth has refused to acknowledge Lavo's Mars base because it has not had enough Role-Play behind it. I agree with you Kevz, it is far-fetched, but the rule of IG=RP still stands. As to your 100000000 tonnage of nukes, besides the fact that people will !@#$%* and moan to no end about that, not recognize it, blow up the world after you do so, or not role-play the nuclear damage correctly. So there we come to another problem, I like sensible RP, I also like un-realistic RP and considering that Lavo's RP will essentially have no such effect on Earth because you cannot use space weapons against earth forces, besides I believe what considers the SDI, I honestly do believe its such a big deal. I would be more than welcome to RPing a space journey to Mars that is non-canon or whatever which I personally believe is much more rewarding than a small news blurb saying we've reached Mars. It all depends what you're trying to do here, are you just trying to get ahead in a RPG or are you trying to come up with something tangible that can entertain people reading?

To that you can have a Mars Colony any time you want, its just non-canon. There's no real way to get around it as the community has always agreed on something like this. Do I wish the Mars Colonies as wonders could have never been considered and there by making this problem? Of course, but it comes down do you want a news blurb or do you want a story? You can have the story anytime you want, you have to wait for the news blurb, it all depends, what is more rewarding.

[King Kevz]

Yes but as has already taken place, Lynneth has refused to acknowledge Lavo's Mars base because it has not had enough Role-Play behind it. I agree with you Kevz, it is far-fetched, but the rule of IG=RP still stands. As to your 100000000 tonnage of nukes, besides the fact that people will !@#$%* and moan to no end about that, not recognize it, blow up the world after you do so, or not role-play the nuclear damage correctly. So there we come to another problem, I like sensible RP, I also like un-realistic RP and considering that Lavo's RP will essentially have no such effect on Earth because you cannot use space weapons against earth forces, besides I believe what considers the SDI, I honestly do believe its such a big deal. I would be more than welcome to RPing a space journey to Mars that is non-canon or whatever which I personally believe is much more rewarding than a small news blurb saying we've reached Mars. It all depends what you're trying to do here, are you just trying to get ahead in a RPG or are you trying to come up with something tangible that can entertain people reading?

To that you can have a Mars Colony any time you want, its just non-canon. There's no real way to get around it as the community has always agreed on something like this. Do I wish the Mars Colonies as wonders could have never been considered and there by making this problem? Of course, but it comes down do you want a news blurb or do you want a story? You can have the story anytime you want, you have to wait for the news blurb, it all depends, what is more rewarding.

As long as the Mars Colony is non-canon then I will have no problems with it. No problem at all. However, if it is classed as canon then I will continue to make my points against its existence. The reason why I do this is not becuase I want one because of the possible problems it causes. Space craft that can reach mars and back in a few months is allowed okay? But then say some one puts weapons on said space craft and so does some one else and then boom we have the first space war and the next and the next and the next you see the problem here?

[Sarah Tintagyl]

As long as the Mars Colony is non-canon then I will have no problems with it. No problem at all. However, if it is classed as canon then I will continue to make my points against its existence. The reason why I do this is not becuase I want one because of the possible problems it causes. Space craft that can reach mars and back in a few months is allowed okay? But then say some one puts weapons on said space craft and so does some one else and then boom we have the first space war and the next and the next and the next you see the problem here?

Well it is canon, at least to many people in the RP. As to your concern of war beginning in space, I will try as hard as I can to keep this from happening and I'm sure the community would be against anything such as space war. I would love to see a regular war in space, but it is unfair for the rest of the community and so we have to do it in another RP, as CNRP in Space was created. If you want Lavo to do more RP behind his Mars Program, I can take that up with him. However as far as I'm concerned at the moment, with the creation of a Mars Colony you can then have it RP. However, fighting in space is banned as far as I'm concerned and it will stay banned unless it is classified as non-canon.

[King Kevz]

Well it is canon, at least to many people in the RP. As to your concern of war beginning in space, I will try as hard as I can to keep this from happening and I'm sure the community would be against anything such as space war. I would love to see a regular war in space, but it is unfair for the rest of the community and so we have to do it in another RP, as CNRP in Space was created. If you want Lavo to do more RP behind his Mars Program, I can take that up with him. However as far as I'm concerned at the moment, with the creation of a Mars Colony you can then have it RP. However, fighting in space is banned as far as I'm concerned and it will stay banned unless it is classified as non-canon.

Fighting in space is not banned sarah. Dropping giant steel rods from space onto earth is banned there is nothing anywhere that says we can't fight in space.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Fighting in space is not banned sarah. Dropping giant steel rods from space onto earth is banned there is nothing anywhere that says we can't fight in space.

I've always been told that fighting in space is banned and if it is not I will make sure it is brought up to make sure that it is banned in the future. If that will put your heart to ease, I can do that.

[King Kevz]

I've always been told that fighting in space is banned and if it is not I will make sure it is brought up to make sure that it is banned in the future. If that will put your heart to ease, I can do that.

Nope Sorry. If you ban space fighting which would be possible then you have to ban space travel as well. You shouldn't be able to have one or the other. In otherwords both or neither is the only real option that should be avaliable.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Nope Sorry. If you ban space fighting which would be possible then you have to ban space travel as well. You shouldn't be able to have one or the other. In otherwords both or neither is the only real option that should be avaliable.

Kevz if you can give me a sensible argument to present to the community to try and get Mars stuff banned, fine, but the problem is, is that people who have it aren't going to want to give it up, we've had space elevators and other things that may or may not be possible and I'm sure the more tech-savy people here would be happy to argue with you and each other until the world ends about how somethings are possible and somethings are not. If you're going to complain about it, that's fine, but I would rather see a solution to the problem than just simply saying, 'no we can't have it'. A complaint can begin an argument, but it cannot finish it. Be assured I will listen to whatever you present to me.

[King Kevz]

Hmm well I just did some small research there, ources from wikipedia only though, and whilst it is possible to land on Mars there are a number of unknown factors that could make in unfeasible. Currently we don't know if these factors could halt any attempt at colonisation of Mars and until we do it might be best to not have any colonisation attempt on mars' soil.

However, if you and the community decide to allow space travel and colonisation then you must allow space warfare. Space warfare is in a way just another part of space travel and so I can find no concrete reason why it should be disallowed.

Also I don't know if many remember but ther euse to be a rule against anything travelling further than the moon but I am guessing that doesn't count anymore.

[Sargun II]

We can have a Moon Base by 2020 in real life, and the largest problem for the Mars Base is not building it but keeping it supplied.

[King Kevz]

We can have a Moon Base by 2020 in real life, and the largest problem for the Mars Base is not building it but keeping it supplied.

I see. Well the problems that my source state are as follows:

Mars has a gravity 0.38 times that of the earth and a density of the atmosphere of 1% that on earth.[16] The stronger gravity than the Moon and the presence of aerodynamic effects makes it more difficult to land heavy, crewed spacecraft with thrusters only, yet the atmosphere is also too thin to get very much use out of aerodynamic effects for braking and landing. Landing piloted missions on Mars will require a braking and landing system different from anything used to land crewed spacecraft on the Moon or robotic missions on Mars.

* The question of whether life once existed or exists now on Mars has not been settled, raising concerns about possible contamination of the planet with Earth life. See Life on Mars.

* Advocates of a return to the Moon say the Moon is a more logical first location for a first planetary colony, perhaps using it as practice for future manned missions to Mars. However, the moon has no atmosphere, no analogous geology and a much greater temperature range and rotational period. These differences make Mars more in common with Earth than the Moon. Antarctica or desert areas of Earth provide much better training grounds at vastly lesser cost. Also, the Moon has extreme poverty in several of the key elements required for life, most notably hydrogen, nitrogen and carbon (50 - 100 ppm), as well as the high delta-v required for takeoff and landing.[18]

* It is unknown whether Martian gravity can support human life in the long term (all experience is at either ~1g or zero gravity). Space medicine researchers have theorized on whether the health benefits of gravity rise slowly or quickly between weightlessness and full Earth gravity. One theory is that sleeping chambers built inside centrifuges would minimize the health problems. The Mars Gravity Biosatellite experiment was due to become the first experiment testing the effects of partial gravity, artificially generated at 0.38 g to match Mars gravity, on mammal life, specifically on mice, throughout the life cycle from conception to death.[19]. However, in 2009 the Biosatellite project was cancelled due to lack of funds.

* Mars' escape velocity is 5 km/s, which, though less than half that for Earth, is reasonably high compared to the Moon's 2.38 km/s or the negligible escape velocity of most asteroids.[20] This could make physical export trade from Mars to other planets and habitats less viable economically.

* There is likely to be little economic return from the colonization of Mars whilst Lunar and Near Earth Asteroid industry is likely to be exporting to Earth.[21]

* Mars has dust storms which can reduce solar power. The largest of these storms can cover much of the planet.

Now some of these will not be taken into effect for obvious reasons but that one point about gravity worries me the most. It is unknown if the Mars gravity wouldn't be a detriment to our health but by allowing us to have these colonies we are ignoring that fact.

There is also point number one. The Rebel Army vessel used to land on Mars is huge and yet accorrding to this the landing systems needed to land a large vessel such as Rebel Army's don't exsist yet. Therefore it would be impossible for Rebel Army's vessel to land in the first place.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Hmm well I just did some small research there, ources from wikipedia only though, and whilst it is possible to land on Mars there are a number of unknown factors that could make in unfeasible. Currently we don't know if these factors could halt any attempt at colonisation of Mars and until we do it might be best to not have any colonisation attempt on mars' soil.

However, if you and the community decide to allow space travel and colonisation then you must allow space warfare. Space warfare is in a way just another part of space travel and so I can find no concrete reason why it should be disallowed.

Also I don't know if many remember but ther euse to be a rule against anything travelling further than the moon but I am guessing that doesn't count anymore.

Kevz, I recall no such concrete rule. As for space warfare...

If you can show me a weapon that would work, and accurately, in space without throwing off the equilibrium of the ship it was fired from, I'm all for it.

We can have a Moon Base by 2020 in real life, and the largest problem for the Mars Base is not building it but keeping it supplied.

I agree that the way Lavo did it was a tad unrealistic, but if you did it in stages, you could give them the resources they need to make their own supplies.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[King Kevz]

Kevz, I recall no such concrete rule. As for space warfare...

If you can show me a weapon that would work, and accurately, in space without throwing off the equilibrium of the ship it was fired from, I'm all for it.

I agree that the way Lavo did it was a tad unrealistic, but if you did it in stages, you could give them the resources they need to make their own supplies.

What about a simple ballistic weapon with minimal target tracking. Stick a small enough weapon with a recoil dampner on a decent sized ship and I doubt it would throw off the vessel too much. After all you don't need to go and blow up the enemy vessel fill them with enough holes and they will leak out oxygen.

Or what about a grappler ship? Build a large enough ship with a pair or single large grappiling arm and either crush your enemy vessel to death or hold it long enough for a boarding team to cut their way inside.

[Sargun II]

I see. Well the problems that my source state are as follows:

Mars has a gravity 0.38 times that of the earth and a density of the atmosphere of 1% that on earth.[16] The stronger gravity than the Moon and the presence of aerodynamic effects makes it more difficult to land heavy, crewed spacecraft with thrusters only, yet the atmosphere is also too thin to get very much use out of aerodynamic effects for braking and landing. Landing piloted missions on Mars will require a braking and landing system different from anything used to land crewed spacecraft on the Moon or robotic missions on Mars.

It is unknown whether Martian gravity can support human life in the long term (all experience is at either ~1g or zero gravity). Space medicine researchers have theorized on whether the health benefits of gravity rise slowly or quickly between weightlessness and full Earth gravity. One theory is that sleeping chambers built inside centrifuges would minimize the health problems. The Mars Gravity Biosatellite experiment was due to become the first experiment testing the effects of partial gravity, artificially generated at 0.38 g to match Mars gravity, on mammal life, specifically on mice, throughout the life cycle from conception to death.[19]. However, in 2009 the Biosatellite project was cancelled due to lack of funds.

Now some of these will not be taken into effect for obvious reasons but that one point about gravity worries me the most. It is unknown if the Mars gravity wouldn't be a detriment to our health but by allowing us to have these colonies we are ignoring that fact.

There is also point number one. The Rebel Army vessel used to land on Mars is huge and yet accorrding to this the landing systems needed to land a large vessel such as Rebel Army's don't exsist yet. Therefore it would be impossible for Rebel Army's vessel to land in the first place.

Took out the ones that have no real issue with building the base.

1. The only source in that statement is the "has a lower gravity", which sort of makes your entire point invalid.

2. Build sleeping chambers inside centrifuges.

[Lynneth]

For the curious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonisation_of_mars

Kevz, I recall no such concrete rule. As for space warfare...

If you can show me a weapon that would work, and accurately, in space without throwing off the equilibrium of the ship it was fired from, I'm all for it.

I agree that the way Lavo did it was a tad unrealistic, but if you did it in stages, you could give them the resources they need to make their own supplies.

Railguns, lasers. Both are possible right now, but the former needs zero friction while the latter consumes a tad too much energy.

Friction in space? What is that?

And spaceships could be supplied much more easily than ground-vehicles with the power necessary to power a laser.

[Tahsir]

Guns can work in space. You just course correct if you need to. Or get system that turns the recoil into its own course correction.

[Lynneth]

Took out the ones that have no real issue with building the base.

1. The only source in that statement is the "has a lower gravity", which sort of makes your entire point invalid.

2. Build sleeping chambers inside centrifuges.

1. Does it?. Mars does have gravity, but it may still be too weak for people to healthily live on the planet while being too strong for Lavo's ship to land. There's too many unknown factors in the equation.

2. Easily said, but not as easily done. Centrifuges work well in zero-G, but in gravity, even Mars' gravity, they are much harder to do.(I'm no expert on centrifuges, though)

[Sargun II]

1. Does it?. Mars does have gravity, but it may still be too weak for people to healthily live on the planet while being too strong for Lavo's ship to land. There's too many unknown factors in the equation.

2. Easily said, but not as easily done. Centrifuges work well in zero-G, but in gravity, even Mars' gravity, they are much harder to do.(I'm no expert on centrifuges, though)

1 and 2. The source says it'll work, so it'll work.

[Lynneth]

1 and 2. The source says it'll work, so it'll work.

Which source. The wiki article? That one says "it might work".

[King Kevz]

Also we kind of missed one of my points here. What i said was I would be okay with recongising space travel and colonisation if we also recognised space warfare. Otherwise it would be like saying air travel with fighters and bombers and water travel without battleships.

I am fully prepared to go along with this space travel stuff as logn as we have space warfare.

[Sargun II]

Which source. The wiki article? That one says "it might work".

"might work" means it'll work but we're too far into a buggery session with this recession we don't feel like funding it.

More importantly, and this trumps all of your arguments no matter how much you whine, !@#$%*, scream and act like a little child:

He has it in-game.