So what's a point of environment worth now?

[ArgonV]

One point of environment used to be 0.4 happiness. But what is it now with the recent changes?

As I understand it, a bad environment also leads to a decrease in population, but has the happiness value changed at all?

[LJ Scott]

I depends on your nation. To find out the enviroments point worth I did the following.

I switched from Revolutionary Government (No enviroment effect) to Democracy (Positive enviroment effect). Because this change doesn't effect land (with the +5%) like switching from Monarchy to Democracy would.

Then just compare your previous happiness to your new one. Similarly for income.

It's like the standard "1 happiness equals $2" I think it changes as you get larger, like 1 happiness is now worth $4.15 for me.

[myruler]

I depends on your nation. To find out the enviroments point worth I did the following.

I switched from Revolutionary Government (No enviroment effect) to Democracy (Positive enviroment effect). Because this change doesn't effect land (with the +5%) like switching from Monarchy to Democracy would.

Then just compare your previous happiness to your new one. Similarly for income.

It's like the standard "1 happiness equals $2" I think it changes as you get larger, like 1 happiness is now worth $4.15 for me.

Just for the last part, 1 happiness=$2 and then you multiply by your modifiers.

[LJ Scott]

Just for the last part, 1 happiness=$2 and then you multiply by your modifiers.

Yeah thats what I meant

"1 happiness = $2" is the basic start up of no improvements etc factored in.

[ArgonV]

Hmm...

I just tried raising my soldiers. Above 60% population, my environment went up by 1 point, from 4.97 to 5.97. Happiness dropped by 0.41 and my citizens decreased by 1.73%.

[Noob Cake]

1 environment is now huge; I don't have the exact numbers but it causes huge decreases in population and minor ones in happiness.

[Syzygy]

yes, as the poster before has shown: -0.41 happiness and -1.73% pop. thats absolutely HUGE and not to forget: CRIPPLING.

@ topic: env now has an impact on a sliding scale, it removes not a fixed amount, but a PERCENTAGE from your happiness and population, which means, highlevel nations who have usually a lot more-modified happiness and pop values will get hurt more, while small nations receive very small penalties. But, definitely from a certain point on, fighting env with borderwalls, gov or water is DEFINITELY benefitial. but, that point depends on the setup of your nation, and everyone has to find it for himself by testing or thinking, instead of doing what a fixed guide tells him.

[Lusitan]

which means, highlevel nations who have usually a lot more-modified happiness and pop values will get hurt more, while small nations receive very small penalties.

I would almost agree with that.. if Technology wasn't an enviromment modifier. You see, Nations with maximum enviromment bonus from tech will have a better enviromment, logically. Which means that in the end it's the smaller, tech selling, nations who get the most damage because they have lower ammounts of tech.

To fight it, they can either live with a system that was supposed to benefit them but it's causing damage.. or they can start getting Tech themselves to fix the issue, which may dizimate Tech Markets.

[Syzygy]

technology benefits infra upkeep not environment (at least not in a way anyone would notice).

There is one betterment of environment from a certain value of technology [which is THAT small, even techselling nations have it].

There is one betterment of environment from a certain level of literacy rate [which is also THAT low, most small nations have it].

More effect of tech to env I was not able to track during my research and most likely does not exist, else I had noticed it for sure.

[iMatt]

I've always had a question about environment numbers:

If you have 1+GRL environment level (The best level there is), does it change anything to buy another border wall on top of this, or is there a cap on the best environment you can have?

I'm going to test this when I collect next, but that may be in a while, I thought someone may already have figured it out.

[Syzygy]

no, borderwalls can only fight env penalties produced within your nation, no radiation levels.

the base Env is 1, then adds the GRL (or GRL/2 if you have radiation cleanup). you cant get better than that, not with borderwalls, not with the NEO wonder.

[Aeternos Astramora]

With my calculations and tests, +1 environment equals a bit more at about +0.6 happiness (the values were 0.59, 0.60, 0.63, and 0.67).

[Syzygy]

as said, its a percentage of your happiness. nations with 100happiness will lose more than nations with 50happiness.

[Aeternos Astramora]

as said, its a percentage of your happiness. nations with 100happiness will lose more than nations with 50happiness.

Ah, I didn't know the happiness was a percentage too.

Appears to be about 0.9% o 1.0% then, possibly even having the percentage that it hurts you rise as you get more happiness.

Edit: To clarify, +1 environment = +0.9% to +1.0% of your happiness.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Aeternos Astramora

[ArgonV]

Edit: To clarify, +1 environment = +0.9% to +0.10% of your happiness.

Assuming you mean 0.9% to 1.0%, I can confirm it

[BigNastyPSU]

So does anybody happen to know (via experimentation) if there is a balance point to the environment like in (DAC)Syzygy's original suggestion, i.e. if your environment is less than X you actually get a pop increase?

Edited May 21, 2008 by BigNastyPSU

[Ephriam Grey]

An increase (which is negative - more enviroment is worse) of 1 enviroment point is equal to:

• -0.9% to -1.0% of your happiness.
  
• -1.73% of your citizen count
  

I've verified these with my nation to some degree - anyone else want to chime in?

[BigNastyPSU]

An increase (which is negative - more enviroment is worse) of 1 enviroment point is equal to:

• -0.9% to -1.0% of your happiness.
  
• -1.73% of your citizen count
  

I've verified these with my nation to some degree - anyone else want to chime in?

I can verify the happiness, I didn't bother to look at the citizen effect though

[Ephriam Grey]

I can verify the happiness, I didn't bother to look at the citizen effect though

The citizen effect is gonna be the big thing.

I'd suggest this - everyone here post their data, not just the change - we put down exactly what we all did, then we can all calculate the percentages more accurately, and hit an exact number. I've found this very helpful, as I've been working on it myself, but I haven't had enough data.

[ArgonV]

Happiness change: from 39.86 to 39.45 (-.41) ==> -1.03%

Citizen change: from 22,393 to 22,005 (-388) ==> -1.73%

Environment change: 4.97 to 5.97 (+1)

[Aeternos Astramora]

Assuming you mean 0.9% to 1.0%, I can confirm it

Yes, that's what I meant. I editted my previous post.

An increase (which is negative - more enviroment is worse) of 1 enviroment point is equal to:

• -0.9% to -1.0% of your happiness.
  
• -1.73% of your citizen count
  

I've verified these with my nation to some degree - anyone else want to chime in?

I've got those numbers too, except mine are reversed since I improved my environment. I checked the percentages both ways too to verify.

And as someone said, here's some data (copied and pasted from the super long thread). There is some experimental error in my higher percentages that I wasn't quite sure how to fix.

Environment | Border walls | Population | Happiness | % increase of population per environment point (taking into account the -2% population from a border wall) | Happiness increase (not including the +2 from the border walls) |

5.09 | 0 | 106,129 | 62.44 | --------- | ------- |

4.09 | 1 | 105,859 | 65.03 | +1.78% | +0.59 |

3.09 | 2 | 105,543 | 67.66 | +1.81% | +0.63 |

2.09 | 3 | 105,182 | 70.33 | +1.84% | +0.67 |

Now for a nuke change:

Starting environment: 5.09.

20 nukes to 19.

New environment: 4.99.

Result: +1 nuke = -0.1 environment.

That -0.1 environment:

Environment | Population | Happiness | % increase of population per environment point (so I multiplied the value by 10) | Happiness increase per happiness point (so I multiplied by 10 |

5.09 | 106,129 | 62.44 | --------- | ----- |

4.99 | 106,323 | 62.50 | +1.83% | +0.6 |

With the knowledge of the fact that I know I had some experimental error on the citizen count, the +1 environment = 1.78% seems to best since it nearly matches perfectly with the -1 environment = -1.73%.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Aeternos Astramora