muffasamini

Well broken tape player... 1. Umm, no, I havent. Your point? All I'm saying is they are setting a precedent for terms here. So you wont be a unified bloc, yall will probably hate each other, but you are at a critical point in which collectively you will state what kind of terms CN should consider appropriate. 2. I have no idea what your talking about. I'm talking about the Karma war, please have your maker record a new tape.

Ah, the Karma Web-bot Azhrarn repeats again! 1) It wont stay as a unified bloc, but the ideas and methods it collectively agrees are acceptable now will hold some precedent. 2) Those werent the focus of the war, they were given white peace so you could hone in on the real target. || But really, your technically your right, and I'm aslo right on my side notes, and think everyone knows it. So why keep repeating? I await your robotic reply stating the same things you stated last time.

Good luck Fire

Protip: Whatever you hear is a lie spun out of proportion and over-dramatic, but its the only way to get heard here. Edit: corrected

"Why the wait" ? Thats an easy one. Those current terms are ridiculous, and if you've seen them then you know it, but most importantly, they are worse than continuing this war. We are not going to accept the terms as they are, but this cannot continue, so the ball is indeed in your court.

Dead on. I can see exactly the topic. Someone posts a thread how we went a smudgen against the terms not once, but twice (collective gasp!) and hostilities are re-opened. Theres a big long page of logs and numbers and how *sad* you are to see this have to come. The first several posts are "and dont think this is right" but then thats followed by about 100 pages of "didnt you do this to FAN? You tottally deserve it!" Then several of us are going "we knew this would happen!" But the CN web-bots keep posting that we did it to FAN, we deserve it, something about TDSM8, but now theres no way out of the war at all, and were screwed. No thank you.

Then end it! The NPO does not have the power to end this at this moment. We have been working tirelessly for a peace agreement, and we've been pretty clear about how willing we are to accept extremely harsh terms. Karma has the ability to end this war tomorrow. But again, we cannot accept peace that could result in the insolvency of this alliance, and were not going to accept peace terms that will hurt us MORE than continuing war. That simply doesnt make any sense.

Umm, isnt that the only way? Its been very very difficult to sit down with all or even mots of Karma at once. We indeed have been talking to alliances individually, and even talking to friends of alliances to see whats going on. If theres anything we can do, we've been trying it.

I can assure you that we are working tirelessly to achieve peace via diplomatic channels. Its a shame others aren't as interested.

I highly doubt anything we do will appease you

"But he started it!" And now its up to you to finish it. I dont understand why people love this argument. OK? We "started it"? Well, we lost, and its time to end it. We have stated not what we dont want to accept, but what we CANNOT accept. Now its your turn. The onus of peace is on you. And if you think its on us, we are at a serious impass that needs to be fixed. Unless of course you dont want it fixed, but I need to get the tin-foil for that.

Might makes right amaright?

Cause the TWiP was allways 100% truth . The apology is one of the terms we've stated were ok with. We got yelled at last time we stole karma's thunder giving Moldavi. (apparently a shallow PR stunt) We'll say it during the terms so Karma can look moore like a badass.

Oh dear lord where have you been. Try an almost complete policy revision and diplomatic mindset. Try the removal of the doctrine that defined ourselves for many of our members. Try the dozen threads in our forum about (I'll quote the titles) 'What we have done wrong" "Poll:New Home Page" (many find it too arrogant) and others. I dont know really what you need, but if all of our IO's hadnt personally apologized for what has happened, and the entire alliance wasnt committed to re-thinking our methods, we wouldnt be as coherent as we are now. Do you really think we can go through something like this without change?

You have much to learn. 1. 2/3rds of us have less than 300 infra 3/4 of us have less than 1000 infra We have over 400 members in our lowest strength division. We lost, and we lost through war. Dont you say that I havent fought yet. 2. For the bankers. So, if they just tomorrow came out of peace mode "things would change"? We'de just magically get peace? Ha ha, dont try.

Oh really? We hurt your feelings for revealing why we cannot accept your ridiculous terms Poor baby. You and I both know that is ridiculous. You have found a reason, however tiny, to turn this into an eternal war, and your going to ride it out. People now know what the terms were, and you feel like it would be "going soft" on the NPO to retract them, but an inch, so that they were possible. You wanted to do this from the start, and now you've found your "explanation."

--Please review Karma's goals, how they convinced everyone to join them. But we havent said that in weeks, were really focused on just trying to get peace. That argument is already lost. --They are fair. By your standards only of course, but we lost, and thats what we have to go by. Sry to burst your bubble. Just remove the tiny part that makes them impossible. --Most of them were. We did many of our activities for the benefit of our allies (which results in benefit to ourselves). But thats over now, were focusing on our actual friends now. --The reparations are possible. They will take longer than you think they will. So maybe your more wrong about what our lines are? Or maybe more importantly your lines are kinda outdated. By a month actually But its pointless, you've been spouting the same line for weeks, I'm pretty sure your a web-bot actually.

This war will end the moment Karma wants it to end. The NPO has repeatedly stated its willingness and desire to accept a peace agreement, including a punishing one who's onus will haunt us for a considerable time. But it will not, CANNOT accept an agreement that could result in the insolvency of this alliance. You know that your terms are just an inch to far. You know that its a tiny change that needs to happen to get peace, yet you wont budge. The burden of peace is on Karma. I sincerely hope that that is not the opinion of Karma leaders. Keep saying that The NPO has never intended to be disrespectful to Lando. Our arguments are with the terms, not him, as IO's have stated early on. It is unfortunate that he has taken it as a personal insult, but it was never meant to be that.

That is your personal opinion on how to run an alliance. Others may find the attempt to lure members away from an alliance an egregious breach of sovereignty. You do not set the international rule of how an alliance views its membership commitments

And thats the biggest problem here. That is illogical. Everyone know's Karma whooped NPO very very badly. Its silly to say that they would rather keep this war going then give up a small side clause. They are worried that that would concede a "defeat" for KARMA. Its not! Thats called negotiating, and its expected that there will be concessions on both sides. Were only asking for an inch so we can get to paying karma alliances the largest terms in history.

another person that is misinformed as to the reasonings behind our actions. We did not decline those terms on the basis that they were too harsh. And, moo is indeed suffering from this war, we have almost 400 members now in our lowest NS bracket. The NPO has repeatedly stated its desire to accept peace and terms that even extremely harsh, are possible. We have stated that we'll accept them if them if certain added clauses making the terms impossible (we wont sign a document we know we'd be in violation of) are removed. We have been defeated, now the burden of peace is on you.

Wait, is this a rhetorical question and you agree? You wrote it like one. When you join an alliance you pledged war slots to defend that alliance. Just the same when you signed a MDAP you pledged your alliances wellbeing to support that alliance. So yes, they are the same thing.

Everyone in their right mind knows those negotiations were a farce. They just wanted to do the same thing they accused us to have done to OV.

Do you honestly think we have some super secret plan in which we are making exceptions in all our systems that ban people who dont have an AA of NPO? Were just telling our PA "hey, there are these members who are going to change their AA, but dont ban them... um, they arent spies, really.. just dont ask questions" Or maybe were all in on this conspiracy, yet all the members who have left are just tight lipped about it. I dont understand. Doitzel only has the truth on mind, even when the truth helps the NPO, of course. I mean, its ridiculous. Imagine the logistics of what it would take to make that work, and then remember that all those people involved have to be in on the secret, and have no moral qualms and not blab. So, the Bank Execs have to be in on it, the IO's have to be in on in, all of MI who monitor suspicious aid have to be in, all of the Proterian Guard has to be in on it (as well as all the NPO members have to not notice that their citizen tips on the nation arent going heeded), as well as several FA members who need to cover up any inter-alliance stir, and not mention that they are a current NPO member if asked. In NPO's massive bureaucracy that's what, 20 people? 30? Does that seem possible, that all those people need to be know about some shady secret bank program, and no one found it morally wrong and blabbed? Do you really think that were that shallow. I'm in one of those groups listed and if I found out about something as slimy as that, I would leave the NPO immediately. And furthermore, what would we stand to gain by secrete banks that we cant from our normal banks? I cant think of anything. We dont wake up in the morning to think about how evil and despicable we can be today Azhrarn. If you actually used your brain long enough to do more that come up with anything to further your own beliefs, you might realize that everything you hear about the NPO isnt true, and whatever fantasies you can cook up are nothing more than that.

Is the fact that I'm from A&M (WHOOP!) a problem?