Rayvon

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114431&st=680#entry3069543 No reparations asked.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1357667159' post='3072871'] As for the Tiber Septim sig; he just nominated himself for sig/avatar and I took his current ones as he didn't specify. If that was made by Mistra I will go ahead and change that. Can you confirm that though? [/quote] One in the votes [http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/cduggan81d/SithBiznus/holton2013_zpsf26ad2f9.png] is my work .. Not sure who did the TOP one Gairyuki links ..

What does NPO have to do with anything?

My stats [img]http://images.zaazu.com/img/male22-male-cry-tears-smiley-emoticon-000064-large.gif[/img]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1357498152' post='3072087'] To be fair, that [i]was [/i]the most poorly constructed sentence I've seen in a long time. [/quote] Chopped down to the pertinent part, sure. I had to show him exactly where I said it was false in the full sentence, was no need to post the entirety of it for that little piece if the entirety already put him off.

Sourcy should join Kaskus, seems like a match made in heaven by reading this thread

"[b]and yes we're all well aware that everything was false/lies[/b], no surprise coming from Smurf and that's part of the problem - [b]that he was working for/with MK/Ardus[/b]"

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357482172' post='3072024'] If you believe that this is the case, why don't you attack the real perpetrator in this conflict. Why don't you cut to the master mind? I just hope it is not because you guys are too scare to make that call just because they are too big. [/quote] I think you missed the point of the quotation marks, or why we're here [that 'Delusion' thread where Smurf claimed - and yes we're all well aware that everything was false/lies, no surprise coming from Smurf and that's part of the problem - that he was working for/with MK/Ardus] in this war.

And Kaskus has been flawless in their executions of 'destroy cruise missile' on CM-less nations and inciting gov of nations not in anarchy

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1357474775' post='3072003'] So the spying of a nuke while protected by a HNMS is not a fact, yet you're here saying you done it and saying I don't get facts right. mind melted. [/quote] "And seeing your leader trying to spy nukes away when people have [i]5 left[/i] with hidden silos." I corrected your numbers by saying "he had 1 nuke under his HNMS"

I bet you do cupcake. You wanna talk peace now? I thought you guys wanted to fight more. My terms are still there, they've not gone anywhere. Waiting for discussion whenever Tan wants to be serious.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1357470340' post='3071996'] Says the hard warrior sitting in peace mode. [/quote] Says the hard warrior (you enjoy hard warriors, eh? Should meet Furqan, you guys would get along famously) who just got out of peace mode. (War is an option for Tora Tora Tora since 1/2/2013. -- or was this another cunning shuffle?) And he had 1 nuke under his HNMS, I've been through 8 combatants now - sorry I missed one wonder late at night. Try, just [i]try[/i] and get one fact straight before this is done. Please? Do it for yourself, not for me.

As long as they don't double the posts

No one's ever said anything more than 5 or 6 since we began tracking - you're the only one who's brought attention to or mentioned all the rest of your cyclers .. There's logs in that other 'bodies' thread (and probably in this one, lost track through all the dumps and 40 pages) from right up to the 9th referencing 'continued' talks.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1357371897' post='3071577'] Just fyi a bunch of Kaskus AA wearers (myself and Tan and some others included) just cycled their AA to make it look like we had a lot of bandwaggoners when we did not. [/quote] Jawara jumping in from NEW 17 days ago, Hiro in from Hooligans and Southern Comfort in from TSI [although he's a known wanderer from what I understand and may not have actually been a TSI member] are the first three examples -- couple days prior to your cunning AA shuffles. [quote]It is one of the best systems I've seen. I believe the current system used was brought to NSO by me. Correct me if I am wrong.[/quote] If you invented the watching-the-new-nations-creation-and-mesaging-them-with-coordinated-messages-recruitment-system [aka the one used since dawn of time], then sure. Credit is all yours. The success comes from the messages themself though, all of which have been written and re-written multiple times and evolve with the team. [quote]I'm sorry you feel that is the case but if you actually look back at the posts by kaskus members you will see only a handful, if any, are condescending. Most are quiet and post only once or twice.[/quote] The mannerism itself in which the Kaskus gov tried to handle it and treat us was condescending. It's been right from the onset. [quote]From our eyes you must understand that NSO said they would not hit Kaskus' "brother" but then did later once said "brother" was put into government. From kaskus' perspective NSO is going back on their word.[/quote] The gov change announcement went up on the 11th, we were still talking through the 8th, 9th and 10th [10th may have been a day of silence, not at on the right computer to retreive logs and there was so many days of silence through the whole ordeal from Kaskus].

[quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1357178813' post='3070708'] Be interesting to see who the main recruiter is for each AA so we can have a better understanding on whether its a team thing or just a certain individual. I wonder who has the best retention rate of new recruits. [/quote] KirstenMichelle is ours, though there's about a half dozen of them using coordinated messages .. So I guess it's a team thing in our case ..

[quote name='Mayzie' timestamp='1357316923' post='3071229'] They've grown in member numbers because they recruit. Look at the alliance seniority, NS & age of those new members. It only looks to me like one person jumped to NSO since the war started. He's got 16k NS and no MP so is only going to get his nation wrecked anyway. E: Now I see two. Another lower tier nation without nukes who got his !@#$ blown up. [/quote] Ashock and Holton (Longshadow and Tiber Septum) are back-back, not just bandwagoning - if those are the two you mean lol .. Also indeed - Kirsten, Furqan and their recruitment team never rest. Our applicant AA currently has around 30 (with a couple ghosts, and some applicants who have completed their academy since the war started but aren't fight capable)

[quote name='Lord Bit' timestamp='1357242309' post='3070972'] we have great communications [/quote] !@#$%^&*, you've spent how much time claiming time zones are [i]hindering[/i] your communications?

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1357230363' post='3070932'] So I was a GOONS spokesman and a spokesman for every alliance I've sat under? And so is everyone else that posts here? Wow, this place is just full of spokesmen, it's great, I feel happy being amongst my own kind. I'll remember that and take every word from everyone on any given subject is that of their alliance and government, being spokesmen for their alliances and all. [/quote] When you wear an AA, and you open your mouth, yes you very much are. From Day 0 of wearing that affiliation. Being a 'spokesman' and being the authoritative figure in charge are two entirely different bags.

Your loss is well worth all the education our noobs experiencing their first war are getting [at least 70 of our nations fit this category - congrats on your [i]amazing[/i] prowess against these nations btw]. It'll make your surrender that much sweeter.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357124577' post='3070407'] That is not a fair assessment. Smurf has been straightforward to us from the start. We decided to protect him anyway because he is not just any ordinary member for us. He is someone who had bleed together with us in the war against GOONS, when he clearly had no obligation to do so. We decided to help him even if that means we may have to be in the receiving end of the punishment NSO feels they have to hand out. Thank you. We understood the situation full well from the start. Rayvon, Dilber, and I discussed the situation and he also knew that I understood the situation completely but insisted on extending the protection to Smurf beyond what is mandatory (on your standard).[/quote] We didn't 'discuss' anything, you said you wanted him. And offered no middleground [oh yay, you offered us a favour down the road - you've done nothing to prove honesty or reason to trust you]. Diplomacy doesn't work like that. You don't just simply demand what you want, and shut up and wait to get it. You TALK for a middle ground. You stopped talking to me, and YOU FORCED the war - and accuse me of being the one who started [Smurf started the war]. You did not want to find a respectful middle ground (agreement), you simply expected us to do exactly as you wanted because you don't care about or respect anything or anybody. Neither you or Smurf give us any reason to take the offer seriously. And your lack of ability to continue to talk, but rather to point fingers and say "you did this" just shows a continued child-like pattern that I'm still not ready to deal with. [quote]You can call us !@#$%^&, for not giving him up for his past offense. But we do this not to mess around with you. We do this as the least we could do to repay what he had given for the alliance in the last war and for the friendship we maintained post the war. He was a non-member who felt like a member to us even when he officially was flying other alliance flag. May be your alliance would have given their member and friends up in the first sign of trouble, which is why you have had trouble understanding why we made the decision we made. We had done the right thing, we defend what/who is matter to us.[/quote] I don't call you my idols for not giving him up, I call you inept at leadership for being unable to carry on and handle a basic, straight-forward conversation and hiding behind imaginary lines. You took an incident that EVERY OTHER ALLIANCE for 6 years has cleared in one easy conversation, and drug it out deceptively. [quote]It is truly unfortunate that it is you that we have to end up fighting. Why cannot it be someone else who we actually dislike or share atrocity to begin with.[/quote] It is unfortunate, but that's what happens when you are not willing to talk and reach an agreement. [quote]I thought we both has had understanding on this one. We defend him out of our gratitude for what Smurf did for us in the past and because he has been a good friend to us. We understand you have the valid CB to attack him, which is why we humbly ask for your mercy and favor to let him re-start fresh with us. We wished you have been willing to forgive him, because, really, what could you possibly gain from attacking him? A little spoil of tech? If you had chosen to forgive him back then, you will have earned our friendship and thanks, which we would be glad to repay you later when you are in dire need, one day down the road in the future. But instead you choose to attack him anyway, even when you know for sure that it will lead to full scale alliance war. You chose to carry on the punishment anyway instead of shake hand and earn our gratitude in return. Justifiable choice but unfortunate one.[/quote] It's not about what we gain, it's about him taking accountability for his actions -- and now, about Kaskus condoning them and taking accountability for [i]his[/i] actions. [quote]It looks like you still focus on what [b]it should have been[/b] in the [b]past[/b]. There is nothing in the past that we can change for you, not that we would want to anyway. What is happening in the [b]present[/b] is we are retaliating for the attack you launched against Smurf just like we promised we would. Drop me a message when you are ready to start talking about what should happen in the [b]future[/b]. Take your time.[/quote] Yes, I am still focused on the past, we have not solved the root issue and cannot move forward until we have done so. His actions in the past are what created the present. Your actions are what will create the future. [quote]If this is NSO official standing on this matter, we have nothing left to discuss now, really.[/quote] Oh don't stop now, you're just starting to get the hang of conversation.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357100464' post='3070351'] So what is the problem here? [/quote] The problem is, for all the twisting you want to do, this would not be a situation had Smurf not chosen to involve you. There is zero reason for anything to exist between NSO and Kaskus if not for Smurf RETURNING to Kaskus. This all started before Kaskus had any involvement period. This 'defending our member' !@#$%^&*, is because he became a member [b]after[/b] the offenses you wish us to spare him from.

[quote name='blackorchid' timestamp='1357098081' post='3070332'] Don't trust google translator. Dengan hormat, Aliansi kami tidak ingin berperang dengan Anda. Tapi kami sudah menyatakan akan membela rekan kami. Saya harap Anda bisa memahami ini. [/quote] I'll take my chances with it .. "Kolega" Anda tidak kolega Anda pada saat ia memulai kegiatan yang kami telah mengejarnya. Dia menjadi rekan Anda untuk menyembunyikan dari kami dan menggunakan Anda untuk melindunginya. Anda telah menjadi perisai yang diinginkannya, dan Anda masih duduk di sini menuduh kami.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/j0PO6.png[/img] [img since can't embed multiple quotes] There's multiple logs of me saying you tried to end it also, moron. Including right there at the end of that first line in which you quoted. I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Tan [one whom actually matters]; further emphasizing the fact that the accusations of us aggressing this by [i]attacking Kaskus[/i] are nonsense.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357091634' post='3070305'] By the way, the post I requested you to answer/reply to is this one below, not my response to Brehon. It looks like it has been incidentally hidden in your post as "spoiler" that you cannot properly respond to it. [/quote] I've responded to those exact words multiple times for the past 2 weeks. You might enjoy repeating yourself like a broken record [perhaps you're exhausting your abilities of ESL, I dunno], but I'm getting sick of repeating myself. I spoiler'd it so as not to fully ignore it, but recognize that it was there still - though not warranting ANOTHER response as just stated. Again, we'll break this down for you. Make it as simple as possible for you. - Smurf no Kaskus - Smurf while ghost of MK, starts !@#$, generally aquires target on head - Smurf hide in PM, aware of situation via KainIIIC - [b]Smurf now Kaskus[/b] - Kaskus willingly becomes Smurf meatshield - Kaskus accuse NSO of 'hit and run test' [test???] Smurf started this incident, NSO undertook efforts to not make full scale war, Smurf perpetuated it, NSO continues diplomatic efforts, Smurf tries to end it, Kaskus says 'no - war', Kaskus stopped responding to diplomatic discussion, Kaskus accuses NSO of aggression and mongering, NSO continues trying to talk, Kaskus regurgitates sputum accuses NSO again, [i]rinse and repeat[/i].