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Junkalunka

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Posts posted by Junkalunka

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #7

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    Ah, yes. Because you are such a dangerous and formidable opponent now.

    Again, you misunderstand things. I no longer consider you and your alliance my opponent, because the conflict is practically over.

    The IAA war is over, now we merely see NPO's amusing, bitter vindictiveness at work. Rather futile, I think, but amusing none the less.

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #7

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    No, you are merely more delusional. Were you more esteemed, were you more respected, you would have had more allies and would not have fallen like a brick when faced with real combat.

    Altogether rediculous and (if I may say so) delusional. We lacked allies not because we could not get them in normal circumstances, but rather, because we were perceived to be anti-Order in nature and policy (rediculous). Or, more specifically, the NPO was anti-Empire.

    And regarding the "real combat" remark, the IAA held up extremely well in a 40-1 combat odds situation. I will concede we could have been better, FAN would have done better than us... but then again FAN never fought 80,000,000 NS either, to my recollection.

    To use that remark further, if the IAA conflict constituted "real combat," then the NPO has never been in a real war.

    In anycase IAA performed extremely well, morale held up, our stormtroopers kept up the fight against impossible odds, loyalty was greater than ever, and a few really tore chunks into attacking nations. The main thing that hampered us was obeyng (and indeed going beyond) Moo's peace mode doctrine, that hurt us militarily and on retrospect I wish we had not done so.

    ...Which should be noted by future military analysts, do not constrict yourselves by "rules" given by the Enemy.

    You are confusing cause and effect. IAA had no esteem, nor respect, thus, they had few (if any) allies. Thus, when they stepped on the wrong toes and awoke the wrong sleeping giant, there was no one around to help them out. It is not our fault, nor that of our allies, that the people who choose to make themselves our enemies have no friends whereas we had the foresight to plan ahead.

    You may want to step away from the 2-minute hate projection rooms and take a proper military analysis of things. The IAA, largely with my direction, analyzed the situation, developed objectives, engaged Pacifica, and completed all objectives. The IAA conflict ended in successful completion of objectives, a victory in my eyes. You would do well to learn from it (oh, perhaps you did, which would explain much of Pacifica's spite and anger against myself and former Imperials).

    You underestimated us, and we took advantage of it... A common flaw amongst many historical tyrants.

    If your former alliance came back, would you go back to it?

    in Open World Forum

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    Strangely, I got an email the other day about the "Allies of War" reforming. :lol:

    I was there for about 6 hours when I first started playing.

    The IAA absolutely destroyed them back in the day, before I was a member, even more so than they crushed Valhalla. It will be interesting to see if they can do anything with themselves this time around.

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    I think you're just having me on now. Everyone who disagrees with you is either being forced at gun point or is the one holding the gun, and nobody agrees with you because [asinine excuse pending]. You know I dislike the replacement of science with conspiracy theory and are trying to spin one so outlandish and circular that my head explodes, thus allowing you to feast on the messy goo inside (presumably to gain my strength).

    Ah well, I enjoyed the laughs while it lasted. ^_^

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    Well ok then, perhaps I ask for too much. What about someone who was dragged off in the middle of the night by a secret police after suggesting that they had a good idea? No?

    *chuckle

    Another common tactic, exaggerate claims made by another to make them sound utterly rediculous. Certainly, I have felt my share of laughs in this thread.

    But what we do have is tens, hundreds, of comrades who will come here and testify that not only have they have voiced their opinion on subjects, not only lived to tell the tale, not only had their idea been implemented and improved the Order, but on top of all this they have actually been praised and promoted in the process.

    Comrades who, of course, could well be compelled to do so. ;)

    So we've shifted from evidence to motive, and now that that has fallen through we're shifting on again to self-interest.

    I have never offered direct evidence (perhaps because it would be impossible for me to provide hard proof), and the motive has always been the same: self interest.

    And again I have to disagree. It can be entirely within the self interest of a rogue to attack the Order --

    Oh certainly, there are sometimes special reasons for going rogue. The IAA itself had special reasons for attacking the NPO (probably reasons not fully understood by yourself). But I used the phrase "most/all" to note that it is not in the self interest of nations to attack the Order... and thus such a prediction or assessment that they would falls apart.

    This is conrasting the obvious self interest in the Order leadership having the capability to view PMs.

    I could go deeper into how nonsensical these plans are that you're dreaming up for us -- how they would fail any cost/benefit analysis

    The benefits would seem obvious to me: the ability to flush out dissenters, conspirators and the like would be extremely useful.

    If you are going to state something as a fact then you have to be able to back it up with more than just your own statement of it as fact.

    Except I am not intending to publicly prove it as fact for obvious reasons, but merely as part of my reasons for my opinion regarding the Order. ;)

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    Rats, the Glorious Feederite Revolutionaries have discovered my true nature and hatred for the worker-nations! But it's not over yet, the Cheeserite Oppressors are not yet defeated! :awesome:

    As Comrade Strudeldorf pointed out, you still have zero basis for your assertion. And what circumstantial evidence? That you assume us to do it? That's no more evidence than my assumption that you are made of cheese.

    I am not here to name sources. This is a two way discussion about francoism, and I have expressed the idea that do to previously noted reasons the NPO may not be a francoist institution. If I am right the NPO is probably not francoist. If I am wrong, it may be.

    Your logic could be used to claim just about anything. In fact, perhaps I should recommend to the Emperor that we launch attacks on all non-Pacifican nations because they have the means and motive to go rogue on us. Sure, there's no evidence for it, but it's vaguely sort-of imaginable, in a strange insane sort of way, and this of course makes the claim entirely credible.

    There is a stronger motive for having the ability to view PMs over the motive to go rogue against the NPO. The former would be very much in the self interest of the leadership, the latter would in most/all cases be against self-interest. The two are not at all comparable, any more than the cheese comparison is.

    I would further point out that in fact we have neither the means nor the motive to check through hundreds/thousands of PMs every day. It would be a massive waste of manpower.

    Of course, but I make no such claim. Searching the PMs of suspicious characters, or even installing keyword software is a much more probable proposition.

    In any case... When was the last time you have relied only on 100% scientific, proof based decision making to decide things? Every one of us rely on sources, some more trusted than others, to get things done and make educated decisions. Most historical and even real life knowledge is not based on actual witnessed proof but on what others have told, written, or shown us indirectly.

    It is largely abstract notions like trust and reason that shape our decisions, more so than hard proof does.

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted

    Then do not bring it up. Equivocating or not, you did use leaders in the same sentence. When you bring up a Josef Stalin, a Mao Zedong, a Adolf Hitler, a Benitto Mussoilini, these leaders are tied to specific images which are placed in the readers head. It is a common tactic that most familiar with oratory and written political tactics consider a shot below the belt, you need not engage in it. :rolleyes:

    It is also a common tactic to dismiss valid comparisons by setting up straw men and claiming that the reference was intended to be a personal attack. My point was that there were comparisons between the flawed-but-effective propaganda styles of the Soviet Union and New Pacific Order, and backed this with an example. Instead of replying to said example, you try to claim I was making an argument that I did not (i.e. Stalin = NPO).

    It is not possible to analyze an organization that completely if you have never seen the inner workings, or experienced the unadultered culture of said organization. Don't tell me that these "interviews" give you information about our leaderships workings?

    I have researched and analyzed many organizations I hold/held no membership in, why can I not analyze the NPO?

    Man, I sure am glad that IPB has that snooping on PM's software installed into it. Just wanted to throw that out there.

    After-market modifications, so to speak?

    It is fortunate then that the onus of proof is entirely on you. That it cannot be definitively proven one way or the other does not give both sides of the argument equal merit (especially when it is logically impossible to prove the negative vis-a-vis 'spying').

    Premise: I can randomly assert that Junkalunka is made out of cheese without any evidence whatsoever.

    Premise: We cannot prove this one way or the other.

    Conclusion: It is rational to work on the assumption that Junklunka is made out of cheese.

    Replace a couple of variables and suddenly your position doesn't sound quite as scientific.

    Of course you cannot prove that I am made of cheese. But previous experience and knowledge would force one to abandon the idea that I am made of cheese, even if one cannot truly know for certain. In reverse, one may surmise that someone may well do something based on circumstantial evidence, means and motive, even if hard evidence does not exist.

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    On another note, I hope that this is the last time we have an IRL butcher compared to any leader on CN.

    You misinterpret my point. I was referring to the article as a excellent example of doublethink propaganda, and a comparison of the NPO's and Soviet propaganda, not as a comparison between two unlike leaders. :rolleyes:

    I'll post after I'm done managing IBRAM corporation's assets for the day (OOC: work).

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted

    Vladimir and many other Francoists are the leadership of Pacifica. Your reason and logic sound like insane conspiracy theories. If you knew anything about the Order you would know that our leadership is strictly against spying, and to do so on our own members is unthinkable.

    It is, to me, neither insane nor unthinkable. Perhaps things like eavesdropping are not utilized... but it would make sense, since it preserves security. OOC: And as my snippet from Stalin earlier noted, it's easy enough to cleverly speak against something and yet utilize it.

    This argument, anyway, will not get anywhere, because it's not possible to prove one point or the other.

    Have you ever been in the NPO? In either of the games? Francoism is not what you want it to be, its what it is, and you seem to think yourself an expert on something you know something about but hardly understand.

    I do not claim to be an expert it the subject field, and I have not been a member of the Order. However, via experience elsewhere, reasearch, interviews and reason, I have determined both that francoism has merit, and that the NPO is not purely francoist. In a similar manner, I can analyze most other organizations, historical, present, and fictional, 99.9999+% of which I have never held membership.

    As for Z'ha'dum's comment I cannot speak for him, but most of what he said is true in my opinion. I hold no ill will against those alliances now, but looking back its still a bitter betrayal. If your concerned about vengefulness in our alliance leadership, the NPO will leave you unless you wrong them. Emperor Revenge is extremely cool tempered and I assume you know that Dilber and Vladimir are not especially hot headed.

    I am not concerned by motives of vengeance, although I think they are sometimes petty; rather, I believe that such motives can interfere with rational governance. And I do agree, Moo and the IOs you mentioned are cool headed and intelligent (but that does not necessarily mean they are not motivated by vengeance, I have seen this first hand).

    During my four month term of governance I made it a goal to govern without the interference of negative emotions. Indeed, I can only think of one situation in which something moved me to real anger (It was not Order related, btw), but I never sought revenge over it. Such things open up weaknesses and pull leaders astray from what they should be doing.

    Principles of Pacifica Weekly Address #6

    in Global Politics

    Posted · Edited by Junkalunka

    So you ignore the viewpoints of people saying "the NPOs great", "the NPOs alright", "the NPO are a nuisance" and "the NPO are horrible" and go straight to the "the NPO have secret death squads!" veiwpoint? What you are spewing out is also extremely hard to believe, and sounds a lot like propaganda from a certain other game used a long while ago.

    Next you will accuse me of being theDoc. :rolleyes:

    But in any case, I do not accuse the NPO of utilizing "death squads," but rather, perhaps, not being quite the perfect francoist meritocratic institution its Public Relations Personnel illustrate it to be. Personal experience, discussion, observation, interviews, reason and logic have all shaped my point of view regarding the NPO. Vladimir and other fancoists have convinced me of the merits of francoism, but not that Pacifica, or perhaps more accurately, its leadership, is necessarily francoist in nature.

    How, exactly, can the leadership be the objective francoist voice of the Body Republic when it's leadership seems primarily motivated by vengeance, spite and vindictiveness (as can be illustrated in this post here)?

    Being a Meritocrat myself, if I had believed the NPO to be the francoist meritocracy it purports itself to be I would have joined months ago, before I was even a member of the IAA (although I was not aware of francoism at the time).

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