Kevlar
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Posts posted by Kevlar
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o/ Kevlar
o/ Cata
o/ First non-GATO post in this thread.
Good luck to you, my friends.
potato!!! And yarly, we miss you
Benji, you know how I am with memos
-Kev
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Kevlar sounded like a military type thingy, so I figured why not. Long story short, that's how it was the best summer ever.
Oh, and congrats and toodlepip to those other people
Wait...war? You guys didn't tell me this when I ran
-Kev
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Well, things sure shifted quickly from "don't worry, we're still friends with and treatied to Polar!", didn't they? I'm finding it hard to fathom that they could have screwed up so badly so quickly to warrant even further scaling back of ties. Or is this over the same thing you kicked them out of One Vision for?
Things being blown out of proportion... I've never heard of such a thing...
If I can cage my sarcasm for a moment, you do have a point. No going back now, however. Despite the various wars I've had to wage with Polaris during this war, I still do hold respect for them and their Emperor. Pity when diplomacy starts to dissolve.
-Kev
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What about us (NpO)?
Too sexy? Instead of a thread, would need a whole forum dedicated to it.
With ES back at top, it's moved up to one of my favorite alliances
-Kev
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katsumi still visits us now and then, and that is
-Kev
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Your understanding of my statement is wrong. Your fault or mine? I can't tell.
Your needless trolling aside, I don't disagree with you, nor I change a word of what I said. You've been trying to change since GWIII, that doesnt mean that the NPO should love you now. Also that doesnt mean that you've changed enough to make them forget the past.
Needless trolling?I was simply stating from the standpoint of being a member of GATO, I think you've got the representation of us a bit wrong (particularly so as someone who has witnessed and had their hand in a lot of GATO history). Nothing to take offense to, simply my side of the argument. Take it or leave it, love it or hate it, whichever you prefer. No harm meant.
I personally never expected NPO to come to love us by now, nor do I think we necessarily deserve that sort of relationship. I'm not all that convinced that we should have been friends by now, either. We were certainly pushing for it, but I don't fault either side for it not happening. We still had ground to cover and they still needed to be convinced. Point isn't to make anyone forget the past. History is important, both from a learning standpoint as well as a common and shared background standpoint. Plans shouldn't involve the forgetting of past events, but the understanding of them and why they happened, and in eventuality how to either pursue or avoid like events. I wouldn't ask NPO to forget an important piece of their history, or forget our role in it. I'd just ask that they see GATO from GWI different from GATO of the present. Which I imagine they do do for the most part. Again, it doesn't imply any sort of obligation toward friendship or peaceful co-habitation, but certainly opens up the right lanes toward pursuing them. As I stated previously, it will take a lot of right stuff to get the opportunity.
And West of Eden: As far as I can recall, this is only the second war against GATO (GWIII being the obvious other). If you're referring to GWII as a third, then it may help to know that it was GATO that declared (alongside NAAC) against the Initiative, not the other way around. A move to this day that I believe to be ridiculously foolish.
-Kev
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West of Eden, I see your point. And believe me, I have no intention in trolling you or anything like that. I like GATO and I know you are a good bunch.
But let's face the facts, and I speak from the point of view of an alliance that in the end of GWIII was in the same situation that GATO, defeated and enemy of the Order. We at ODN worked, and are still working to make our relationship with NPO better. We had a little bit more success than you guys and the Legion, but still was no easy thing.
GATO was for a long time the leading anti-NPO alliance in the game. You did everything you could to bring the Order down, and were you given the chance back then, you would not have wasted it.
Now you are trying to change. As the Legion was and as we are. That doesnt mean that the Order should forget that once we were their enemies and start liking us as old buddies. I would have done things differently, but I understant their position. I wont even try to argue the CB, or stuff like that, because that's not the case here.
The one thing I'm saying is: you cannot blame NPO for not liking GATO, you cannot blame them for treating you badly, you cannot blame their membeship for wanting to destroy you. One year ago you were the ones hating them, wanting to destroy them and treating them badly.
The only thing you can do is try to change and make the Order like the new GATO. Show them that you are no longer that alliance that they call WAE and they will treat you accordingly. Show them no change, and they will destroy you.
It's as simple as that.
It looks like you're trying to paint this as GATO trying to bring down the NPO for ages, and now only as it's getting ganged up on it wants to resolve past issues and move on. Wonder what game you've been playing for the past year.
My joyful sarcasm aside-- Anti-Order sentiment has been a thing of the past in GATO for some time now. If you would've made that statement prior to GWI, or in the period between GWI and II, then I could believe it. Ill will during GWIII was forced upon us, as we were pushed into defending ourselves against a common foe. Since then, this supposed "anti-NPO alliance" that you speak of is nonexistent. We paid our debts in a timely manner following GWIII. The primary focus of foreign affairs since GWIII has been resolving the conflict with Pacifica and her allies so that we could at least co-habit the game. We were even able to end one of the oldest and bitterest grudges in the game between GATO and NpO. Nobody expected the ToF we signed with them. There were admitted wrongs in the past on our part in our relationship with Polaris, we worked hard to overcome that, and I believe even ES himself spoke about how we had changed (in his Ask Sponge thing, which I'd recommend to anyone).
The problem hasn't been change. We are constantly changing, constantly evolving. Not because we feel pressure from the outside world, but because that is how our community is. The problem has been the unchanging perception of GATO outside of our doors. I think people like to believe we're still the same people we were from the first Great War, that we're still the opposites to Pacifica, and that we're hellbent on some sort of revenge, or vengeance, or some defining victory against the Order. But we're not. The community that was anti-Order is so long gone. It seems like I'm trying to point blame on everyone but ourselves, but I'm not attempting that either. We don't really portray ourselves well outside of GATO because our focus has been primarily internal (as well as to allies). There have been mistakes on our part that remind people of the alliance we no longer are. Not much we can do about the past at the moment.
May as well tell a man to keep breathing. We've changed. We're changing. We'll keep changing. War, no war. Sanctioned or not. Our community defines us, not variables and statistics in a game.
Those of us who fought in GWI and were around to see the following events knew that friendship was a long ways away with Pacifica, particularly for GATO and Legion (ODN as well, really, and it's phenomenal you have been able to patch things up as far as you have). Pacifica felt betrayed by us, and rightly so. They were fighting for a moral purpose, for a reason that really the CN community was behind, but got screwed on a technicality after a premature strike (by someone who wasn't a member of Pacifica, no less). Then people turned against them. I would likely be in a similar mode of thought had I went through that as well. Right or wrong, it happened. The people who controlled the alliance then and the community that witnessed it is essentially gone or evolved. There's nothing we, or even they, can do to change the past. What has happened, happened. Best we can do is try to resolve our differences and try to co-habit the game as best we can. We've always been aware that it wasn't going to be a simple task. There was a long road to travel when we started, and we obviously still have a long ways left to go, but we're still trying to get there.
Will we ever actually attain it? Who knows. I'd like to think we can, as I'm sure we'll keep trying. Given the history of the two alliances, it'll take a lot of right stuff just to get the opportunity.
-Kev
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Let me put it at its simplest:
It is not the power of survival that makes a thing great, or the Cockroach would be the pinnacle of evolution, but the ability to survive through learning lessons and changing because of those lessons.
GATO may have within it the kernel of a successful alliance, but the soil it prefers does not engender much growth. Learn to change, GATO, or perish.
Think you missed a part there. What seems to be being pushed around these days is "Learn to change, but mostly in a way that benefits us." We've gone through quite a bit of change since GWIII, and most certainly so since GWI. We aren't the ones blind to the change, as we did it ourselves. This war is only saying, "You committed a mistake, change doesn't matter."
So clearly this changing bit isn't quite as important as it seems. If it had been, then it would've been taken into consideration.
-Kev
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Anyone that would bother whining about the war have already taken the surrender terms.
EDIT:
Kevlar, I can't believe you didn't mention our best MoDA ever.
Hungchang held that office for like a billion and a half months.
I didn't mention Hung because he left shortly after GWIII and the topic of discussion, at least as I pursued it, focused primarily on post-GWIII government structure. Could mention magicninja though or Raistlin
Or maybe that new MoDA of ours 
-Kev
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There are 7 non-gov congress members (going off your charter), which means you vote for 15 people. Finding 15 highly skilled people with nonslip shoes in even a large alliance is a tricky task.
You also have too much 'churn', that is, turnaround of staff. Congress votes every month? Ministers every two months? What? When a week is taken up by the electoral process?
No more than three terms for your effective leader? The old Legion had a similar churn and the complaints we got were that other alliance leaders never got to have a long term relationship because the faces kept changing.
I know from bitter experience that elections for so many people become avatar judging competitions all too often.
All this is meant in a friendly spirit, I hope your replies share that same spirit.
In a similar friendly spirit, you don't know what you're talking about. We operate under this charter and have done so for over a year. At a passing glance, you see the number 15 and can easily think "Gosh, that's big." In reality, the primary government is in only 5 of those positions, the Assembly Chairman and the four Ministerial positions. The High Court is typically held by the same people for the duration of their stay, and Congress is a representative body of the whole, so there should be both good and bad in it, as we aren't all perfect. There seems to be a large misconception about our Congress that it is an emphatically important body. While yes, it does serve an important purpose, it is in the grand scheme of things much more minor when compared to the executive roles.
As those who are aware of our past know, we originally had a system where the entire alliance debated and voted on pacts and agreements and the like. The system, while very democratic, was slow and could get off topic easily. Congress was a solution to reduce the size of the deliberative body while maintaining its democratic nature. Any piece of legislation that affects you the viewers outside of GATO is still directly proposed by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The actual Congress members themselves focus on internal legislation, regulation, etc.
And your comments on tenure have already been noticed well in advance. The original system had something like two-week terms (we're talking veeeery early). The charter was amended to increase this to month long terms. And then later amended to two month terms. We adjust as we feel necessary, because it is, after all, our government and we ultimately decide how we want to pick and choose them. If it doesn't work out for you, that's fine, just stick in the alliance you're in and problem solved
As for term limits, that had actually been a topic of discussion. However, the war has interrupted our discussion of government reforms. We will resume these once the war has finished.We like to do things our way, you like to do things your way. People speak of efficiency, or speed, or power, but honestly to each his own. Our government is based on the community we reside in, one that likes to have its opinion heard a lot. If you want a government that will make certain decisions for you, more power to you. I have nothing against the various government systems in this game. We're all a little unique in our own ways, and I much prefer it that way. We will adjust our government as necessary, as I'm sure you would if you ran into a problem. Right now the only major issue I think we need to fix is the size of Congress, as we've had a reduction in membership. Other than that, we'll save talks for after the war.
And for those saying it's too easy to get into our government, it's also a bit of a misconception. Getting into Congress isn't an exceptionally hard task if you take the time to connect with people, but there are certainly GATOers who will tell you otherwise. That would be the place with the biggest opportunity to get in, and that's really its purpose. The Ministries and the Assembly Chairman typically are not affected by newcomers vying for a position. Our AC spot was held by a two people in the course of 10 months, we had a MoD for 7 straight months, and the next one filled it for something like 4-5 months. Our MoF will be going into his 7th and 8th months with this new term. I held the MoFA spot for 5 months. And when there is a transition in these positions, it is typically to a high ranking officer within that Ministry. So that leads us to how someone could take these positions. The first is if these high ranking officers are newcomers, and the second is if the veteran ranking officers and the incumbent Minister choose not to run. It has happened on occasion and I don't doubt that it'll happen again. In the rare event, a newcomer will actually prove themselves eloquent in the given area, connect with people, and actually grab the attention of the electorate.
And finally, as per harboring perma-ZI people (to whoever it was who mentioned it, I'm too lazy to go back and check), I'm unaware of any member who is on a perma-ZI list. My inclination is that you're referring to Chris_Kaos and the Gladius reincarnation, but that would be folly as CK was never sentenced to perma-ZI, he was simply restricted from office, administration, and advisory roles. Thus far, we're being faulted for him creating an illegal multiple account through a proxy, and that account gaining a position in Congress (in the final seat of Congress by a single vote; funny how a single vote can make such a difference). In retribution, shouldn't the punitive measures be proportional to the wrong committed? We've been pushed to a point where few alliances have to go, we've been beaten, so really what's left to do? We would very much like to discuss an end to the conflict so everyone can get on with their merry little lives.
-Kev
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Quoted for emphasis.
Gato is like an old pair of slippers: she may look awful from the outside, but inside, it's all warm and fuzzy.
No new girlfriends, dogs, (or total annihilation, for what matters) could make us throw it to the trashcan.
And to those that will tell me that it would maybe be the time to move on; the answer is no. Too many hours of hard work, too many sadness and crisis, and also too many laughs, greatness and friendships.
Huzzah GATO!
Huzzah US!
Mammoth slippers? Or sasquatch slippers?
-Kev
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uhm...you did read a couple of the posts regarding that right?
Too much work.
-Kev
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Trying times, but it's a pleasure to see things like this.
Viva Spanish Cats!
-Kev
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Ooh, it's a Sponge!
Best of wishes to Polaris with their new (okay, so not so new
) Emperor-Kev
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No Cata? No Kevlar? This is absolutely outrageous!
*potato is not pleased
Well, I suppose it didn't help that I did not run for any position. I sorta just expect them to write me in on ballots these days
*pleases potato*
That just happened!
And Walker: We always hold our regularly scheduled elections. We did post-couptober, we did during GWIII, and we're doing it during this war. The war has little, if any, affect on our democratic processes
o/ Spanish Cats
-Kev
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I've heard he's a CK multi...
Congrats to the elected, I couldn't be happier with the results.
No u
Besides, all you have to do is be pro-Spanish cat, then you're fine
And I can't agree with you more; best non-Kevlar government evar Viva Spanish Cats!
-Kev
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Said I wanted the title of "Ancient" >_>
Congrats to our newly elected folks
This appears to be one of the finest selections for office that I've seen in a long time. Do us proud! Or just give me something expensive and shiny 
-Kev
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Been an honor, IAA. The greatest of allies.
*tips hat*
-Kev
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And i would say that goes for IAA, USN and GATO as well...all of us have behaved with integrity no?
We're also all devilishly good looking.
Cheers on the terms, CSN *tips hat*
-Kev
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To be honest, I never expected such a topic would breed quite as much pointless banter as this one has. Quite telling of a state of mind when an attempt at levity falls deaf on the masses ears. Moral of the story, a sense of humor is quite nice.
The original intent wasn't to refer to Pacifica as a fascist or Nazi organization. Methinks discussion of that sort, should you wish to promote or decry such a statement, ought to take place elsewhere.
Pity to have seen this derailed so far. I found it humorous, though it has lost its appeal with the constant attempts to find some deeper meaning in a simple act of levity.
Cheers.
-Kev
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Esau...I'll be watching for when your first war expires. <__<
I so called dibs...oh wait.
And my, my...a visit from an old timer
Some of us remember you from waaaaay back when, Zara (sounds weird saying that >_>) -Kev
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o kevlar
Wot?
Also, yay Looee
-Kev
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<snip>
Personaly gives me more of a reason to dislike GATO and lobby for disbandment since Kevlar Akicked me from #gato and is now in power.
<snip other stuff>
Your tears only feed my mighty Sasquatchi army.
We can also brush aside the fact that I cannot access the akick list in #gato. Or the fact that I've been in a position of power for something like 7 months.
This war is all about avoiding the relevant facts and launching into wild fantasies and delusions for personal gain and pleasure, so I didn't expect much different from you.
As for Barb, can't say I approve of your actions.
-Kev
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I'd say pretty damn well. What about GATO's? - oh wait.
Haven't had one, thank you very much. Nice try though
-Kev
Needless trolling?
Global Alliance and Treaty Organization Announcement
in Alliance Politics
Posted
As for the shocks and awes about us, we've had some practice I guess
-Kev