Sniper Joe

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1358195194' post='3076274'] [size=4]Sniper Joe, I love you.[/size] But make it stop. Make it all stop! D: Also, here's my shocked face: [img]http://jbsvintage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/etrade-kid-shocked-face.jpg[/img] [/quote] How do you think I feel man...after all this is over I'm gonna take a nice long bubble bath. [quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1358195390' post='3076278'] So BFF is throwing Chax under the bus to avoid a war with NG and NSO..? Ok.. [/quote] Yes.

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358191860' post='3076226'] To what end though? If NEW said they didn't want help...why the spectacle? Wouldn't it have been simpler to have NEW say they didn't want allies involved? It's been done numerous times and BFF would've taken less flak than the cancellation brought.....maybe Chax is a huge moron. [/quote] Nobody knows. We haven't been able to get in touch with him yet. [quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358193156' post='3076244'] I'd be surprised if they even entertained you. Your government acted rashly and dropped them like a hot brick, fair weather friends almost. Considering the length of your so called friendship, is quite shocking. Instead you acted upon 1 mans words and followed it blindly and discarded them like trash. This has now caused a knock on affect and INT (which we already know are fair weather friends) dropped them as well, (no surprise there). As i said before, I'd be surprised if they even bothered with striking up friendship, when clearly it was one sided to begin with. [/quote] Excuse us for trusting a long time friend and government member. I'll be sure to let everyone know that they shouldn't assume honesty when their government speaks. I confronted him about these rumors. I asked him to tell me straight out if he lied to me. And he played me too.

[center][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120812231024/cybernations/images/5/5f/Blood_For_Friends_alliance-flag.jpg[/img] I come to you today with some very sad news. Ernesto Che Guevara, known to most as Chax, is a friend to many of us. A friend is someone you expect to have your back. A friend is someone you expect honesty from. A friend is someone you know you can trust. I expected all of this from Chax. I consider him one of my best friends; both in this world and outside of it. I trusted him more than anyone else trusted him and more than I trusted anyone else. But he betrayed that trust. Earlier today, we finally received screenshots we'd been seeking in an attempt to either confirm or dispel the rumors that had been floating around of his deception. I didn't want to believe them. I demanded as much proof as could possibly be had, and today that proof was laid in my lap. As per section 4.1 of the Blood for Friends charter, Chax is being put on a restricted access level of our forums and will be allowed to plead his case. Should he be found guilty, he will be stripped of his position and told to vacate our AA within 48 hours. I apologize to everyone involved in this situation for his deception, and especially for my own role in supporting him and unintentionally lying to you all. Below is a statement from Goldie, leader of VE, clarifying the situation. [quote name='Goldie']After an impassioned night on Thursday of defending BFF's position in this war, based on the word of my ally and the logs provided that corroborated his story, it was presented to me on Saturday afternoon by Robster from UPN that the logs in question were not real. I was skeptical initially, but investigation was needed, and that is what happened. I got in contact with Chax, and he gave me the screenshots I needed, and I gave them to Robster. They looked suspect, but of course, I held out the best hope for their veracity. Robster told me he would get the same from Vibi, and that is where we left off on Saturday. Today, Robster gave me the screenshots from Vibi, which completely served their purpose of debunking Chax' logs. The format is clear, there is no sign of any tampering, and most important of all, a BFF member was allowed to remotely access Vibi's computer to confirm their accuracy. When compared to my analysis of the screenshot Chax gave me, it seals the case in my mind that this whole situation was based off of false and fabricated information, that Chax leaked out to his alliance to build support for his desired outcome, and to his allies to build the defense base he personally would need to accomplish his goal. [img]http://i.imgur.com/yu8vm.jpg[/img] In this case, L is Vibi, and A is Chax. I have highlighted the discrepancies I found in the screenshot, the alignment shifts where Chax added the text below "create war" and corrects itself the next time Vibi talks. There is also a spacing issue between the lines Chax added and the rest of the conversation. Other snips of the conversation have been added/adjusted, in order to make it look like this was a war NEW proposed over BFF's protest. The real screenshots refute this completely. [img]http://i.imgur.com/qW2SH.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/hibP5.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/B1oji.jpg[/img] Chax pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. He lied to his government, who trusted their fellow leader. He lied to his membership, many of whom were shocked at the situation. He lied to his allies, who committed to defend him. He lied to everyone in CN when he made his claims. And he lied to me, and I spent a day supporting his lies and working to undermine those who were questioning him. As an ally of BFF, it was my duty to help them in their time of need, but I owe an apology to those who I discredited based on the false information I had, regardless of the truth or veracity of their own statements, and I am sorry to those people. I am especially sorry to Robster, who worked the hardest to bring the truth to light, and ended up helping to do just that. BFF needs allies now more than ever. VE will absolutely be there for them as they do what they need to do, period. Chax tried to hurt us all, and succeeded to a point. Now we will all grow past this, and become stronger, together, as a result.[/quote] Sometimes the rumor mill contains little grains of truth. Au revoir.[/center]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357961758' post='3075207'] It surely means a hell of a lot when it's coming from the people who essentially sold out an ally and went behind their back to do various damage limitation deals. [/quote] Keep repeating yourself, put your brain under your pillow, click your heels together, and wish upon a star, and maybe it will become true.

[quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357961574' post='3075206'] i can tell you right here right niw if GOON Kaskus war never happened we would MDAP Goons would you believe me just because i posted it on OWF? OWF is a lie just like the cake the only words that can be trusted are your own. back room deals are more trustworthy then public statements made here. [/quote] The history between NEW and BFF is more than enough testament.

[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1357961386' post='3075203'] Uh, you must be really dense because they have already stated, maybe not in this thread but over a few other venues that they would not have canceled on NEW, and would be standing by them had they not done what they had done. Perhaps a little investigative work into the happenings of the world would be the proper thing to do and to get the full story before going off about a situation. [/quote] I said it a few pages ago.

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357959661' post='3075178'] I doubt the log was posted in its entirety. There had to be more discussions. On another note "We are activating the treaty ... if you don't mind" or whatever hardly sounds like a harsh demand. I would love for the NEW leader to come here and shed some more light on the situation. [/quote] This has been addressed numerous times. Either read the thread or stop being intentionally obtuse to score points. They were activating the treaty. It was a mandatory treaty. We did not have a choice in the matter. What they did was the equivalent of pushing someone off a cliff while whispering in their ear "I hope you don't mind us pushing you off this cliff." [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357960147' post='3075183'] NEW was wrong for aiding ally ? an ally that in many sense is NEW. many could argue NEW and Kaskus are the same alliance you could argue they arent. I personally think were 2 alliances joined by brotherhood. something your alliance will never get to achieve because you approve of things like this. what is not arguable is that NEW and Kaskus are allies. both alliances will tell you we are allies both sides will tell you we dont need a dumb treaty that sets limitations on our friendship. you are bound to your allies in words we are bound by blood and brotherhood. face the un deniable truth shown in the GOON Kaskus war and now in this one and stop hiding behind your "oh their was no treaty" bull. [/quote] That's just not how this planet works. At all. Sorry the world doesn't change for you. [quote name='Dcrews' timestamp='1357959783' post='3075180'] Agreed, as an ex member of FEAR and a founder of BFF, this is truly deplorable. Yes you were in a !@#$ situation, doesn't give you license to $%&@ over an ally. Figures the idea came from MK, those guys are pros at screwing allies over. However, i didn't know there were so influential to you. When are you planning on joining DH, looks like you'll fit in just fine What happened to you guys, I hardly recognize you. [/quote] Coming from the guy who pretty much wanted us to join Duckroll, I'll chalk this up to ideological posturing. As for the NEW and Kaskus folks lambasting us, you're !@#$@#$ hilarious. We didn't dance to your tune like good little pawns so now you're whining like spoiled children. I won't say any more for the sake of civility.

[quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357953521' post='3075116'] so if thing posted on OWF count as ways of transferring information. then im sure a BFF member read on here about aid being given. that seems prttyy legit form of communication you guys have here. also you didnt exactly answer my question. did you tell them about the private backroom talk before this or after also if you had a backroom talk about NEW containing seriois information. they should have known before the talk even began. it seems you are playing victim yet you are doing exactly the same !@#$%^&* they did but you say yours is justified when yours is far worse they did what they did to help out their little brother you are doing what you are to save pixels and keep your war record nice and tidy [/quote] You're either dim or being intentionally obtuse; I suspect the former. This conversation is over regardless.

[quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1357952818' post='3075109'] since treaty is still in effect have you showed them logs of what chax disscussed. i think thats very serious important information they need to know. or are we hypocrites now? i think they need to know their allies of still right now has been talking to the soon to be enemy about abandoning them just my 2 cents. [/quote] They've posted in this thread.

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1357951951' post='3075099'] BFF entered negotiations and stated: We will fight you guys for 3 rounds then peace out and you can all have at NEW. This allows 3 rounds of war for a ton of AA's to plan out a full on gangbang. Everybody knows what's going to happen except NEW, who get's blindsided. I can't imagine BFF would go to NEW after the negotiations and be like "yo, we negotiated we will fight 3 rounds then peace out and then 6 AA's are going to attack you." Anyways, my jimmies are rustled and I won't be posting here anymore. I fell like a kid who was just told Santa didn't exist, I truly expected better of BFF considering what I have seen it's constituent parts do for it's allies in the past. Going from FEAR and Europa going balls deep into a huge glob of NS for NEW to standing strong by Invicta and doing as much as possible to help them escape damage. This is the same AA that in the Dave War prevented Invicta from being countered when it hit MK and most likely prevented them from taking to bad of a beating in the grudge war (can't remember, not my front) Maybe it's not the actions that are so terrible, but that my expectations were to high. [/quote] In any other situation we would have been right there with them or any other ally without hesitation. Hell, even if NEW had talked to us about aiding Kaskus before they did it we would have been right with them in a second even if we thought it was dumb. But NEW manipulated us. They showed complete disrespect and disregard for us as an alliance and as an ally. They abused our treaty and our relationship and twisted our arm to force us into a ridiculous situation without even talking to us first. It was completely inexcusable and made us lose any semblance of fondness we had for them. We will go farther than any other group on this planet for our allies, but NEW proved to us with their actions that they were not our allies and that they didn't see us as allies either. They saw us as a political tool to be used. The fact that we even wanted to fight for them at all proves our level of commitment to the people we consider, or used to consider, friends. I completely understand where you and everyone else are coming from and I'm disappointed myself that it came to this.

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1357951297' post='3075092'] I agree wholeheartedly, but you could have just cancelled and gone on your way. I can't even fathom why you would think this was a better route than flat out cancellation, at least you had a valid reason for that. Allies are supposed to negotiate less damage for their MADP partners ffs. Why not something like "We will allow 2 counters on NEW and will only join in if it escalates beyond that." and then cancel after the war. That's what PC and iFOK did and it mitigated any damage NEW might take. You put them on a plate, and served them with a nice appetizer and desert as a treat to anyone who wanted to partake. Imagine this: During NEW-DF, PC and iFOK go to FARK and say "listen guys, we will fight you for a few rounds in defense of NEW, than we will peace out and you guys and a bunch of your friends can have your way with NEW." Hard to imagine? That's because it wouldn't happen. [/quote] It was just an honest expression of very understandable frustration. We were all extremely furious with them. It may have been a crappy thing to say, but he was in the heat of the moment and pissed off and dealing with stuff coming from all directions. We were already sticking our neck out for them and didn't have a whole lot of leverage besides the good will of the people on the other side of the web, I very much doubt we could have done anything for them.

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1357950756' post='3075083'] BFF felt that NEW had betrayed the spirit of the treaty and had every right to cancel and waive the grace period. Every right. I can't even think of any scenerio where it's ok to enter negotiations behind your allies back and negotiate maximum pain for them and minimum for yourself. Did you not read the logs? He literally said "after we get peace, you can all dogpile NEW", that was a point he was offering up in negotiations for an end to this crisis. He actually offered his ally up to the entirety of Bob for their amusement. How is this not worse than cancelling?!? [/quote] Because we'd actually be doing something for them when they didn't deserve it at all. They deserve whatever happens to them. They were completely in the wrong in so many ways it's astounding. Sorry if we're not sympathetic to a group of manipulators. As for thinking it's shady or whatever you want to call it, this is all just standard operating procedure in CN that most people don't get to see.

Try actually reading the logs. There's no mention of anything besides normal warfare, that crap came later. Yeah, we wanted a decent length war instead of suiciding with NEW in their VietFAN forever. Terrible us. Really guys? Get real.

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1357937015' post='3074918']words[/quote] I don't think you understand the significance of what NEW did to us man. There was a string of incidents leading up to this that we thought made them less then great allies but we kept the treaty out of sentimentality and figured their horrid inactivity and our past relationship with them would be enough to keep them in check. We thought, in our stupidity, that they would be good to us out of respect for our relationship, even if they are known to be pretty erratic. They even promised to cancel all their treaties if they decided to go off the reservation. Then they turn around and pull this. What someone quoted earlier about the NEW guy saying they'd activate our treaty "if we didn't mind" was spun pretty hard. We had no choice in the matter. They were activating a mandatory treaty, after pulling a completely ridiculous stunt without a peep to us. It was a horrible thing to do to an ally. And yes, outside pressure was an enormous factor. I and most of BFF wanted to simply defend NEW normally. Then we had the jackals coming to us from all corners of the world trying to persuade us in their usual slimeball fashion to do something that would best serve THEIR interests. So we tried simultaneously do the right thing and please everybody. Lesson learned, never again.

Thanks lovelies.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357905664' post='3074723'] I see you captured the essence of Non Grata well. But I put it to you. Do you even lift? [/quote] Bro, I do 1000 squats every day. My glutes could break the neck of a small child.

An artist's depiction of recent events: [spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/Kqlnl.png[/img][/spoiler]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1357884717' post='3074617'] It saddens me that this was cancelled the way it was, though I'd like to think NPO will be attacking as soon as this grace period expires so in that regard it's completely expected. Today the honor of two of the alliance that made up BFF dies, but I suppose that's to be expected as well given the company they are keeping. [/quote] What a bunch of melodramatic and childish drivel.

Oh man, this went to !@#$ in a !@#$basket. TheDon has not been in government for months. He's been inactive and not around and not someone who makes decisions. He wasn't there for all the crap we had to deal with from people from all corners of this godforsaken planet. He got worked up due to sentimentality and his post was emotional cherry picking at best. Now, you all know for a fact that we did more for NEW than 99% of alliances would have. Most of you would have ran away with your tails between your legs, doing backflips to get out of honoring the treaty. We try to be better than that. So yes, we wanted to do the bare minimum to defend NEW in their retarded crusade. We owed them far less. Most of us were pissed enough to hit them ourselves. And they would have deserved it 100%. We did what we could to not completely $%&@ over our allies and others who would have been inconvenienced by our own lack of foresight and NEW's complete disregard for common decency. TORN was the first to ditch NEW. Why aren't they getting flak when we actually tried to be more than your average snake in the grass elawyer alliance? This is completely ridiculous and I think most of you know that deep down you would have done exactly the same, if not "worse." We were offered a deal to defuse the situation, we didn't seek it out. It was the right thing to do for us and ours and I don't regret it a bit. NEW doesn't deserve the time of day, let alone an ally willing to go through the BS we have over the past two days just to not run away from the treaty we had with them. I have no regrets.

[quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357870853' post='3074355'] This was beautiful to read. We'll be sure to take BFF seriously from now on. [/quote] Oh get out, anyone who had to deal with this or any other situation like this can tell you how hectic !@#$ gets. You're just being intentionally obtuse at this point.

You have to wonder what NG's angle is here considering how cordial they were in working with us through this nonsense. It almost seems like people are just trying to score political points here...that couldn't be true, could it?

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357864724' post='3074260'] He's not referring to the cancellation, the cancellation was absolutely the right thing to do, in fact you should never have signed the treaty in the first place. NEW goes insane on an annual basis, you knew that when you inked the treaty, it's not a new character trait. So trying to strike backroom deals so you take minimal damage if you have to enter in their defence is pretty poor. If you agree to enter on a limited conflict basis it diminishes the act of coming to their aid, essentially you are entering so you can save face while your MADP partners get theirs smashed in because you have no real intention of being of any assistance. You'd be better just being honest and saying NEW you are !@#$@#$ retarded, you violated the terms of our treaty and you can go die in the fire you have built for yourself. Instead you choose to try and claim a moral victory in a situation where it wasn't really required selling out your MADP allies in the process. [/quote] Wow IRON, why did you put Methrage in charge of your alliance?

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357862941' post='3074241'] Selling out a MDAP ally is now respectable? Well that's a new one. You ride together, you die together..... For better or worse. That's the whole point of MDAPs... it's a suicide pact. [/quote] We're hardly abandoning them. If we wanted to abandon them we'd just say that they violated the treaty and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine if they asked for our help. We're cancelling on them for being awful allies and nearly everyone agrees that it's completely justified. Why would we keep a treaty with an alliance who has no regard whatsoever for the people they're tied to? We're doing them a favor here, even after they took a crap all over us and our relationship.

[quote name='DarkEra97' timestamp='1357859264' post='3074156'] This is very generous. [/quote] We are a magnanimous collective of mouthbreathers if nothing else.

I like how you think bin Laden was somehow worse than Muhammad and that you're still stuck in the "angsty atheist" phase.