quigon jinn

Hey everyone - looks like GRL took a jump up about a month ago - does anyone know what the causes were to this? Was this the timing of the FnKa/Ninjas war vs GOONS? GOONS was also fighting that one alliance with random letters as a name too. Those wars ended roughly mid-October if I remember correctly, which means GRL should be "down" a bit mid-November? Anyone have a better estimate when GRL will subside? -Quigon

[quote name='Sentinal' timestamp='1288165991' post='2494137'] Right, but he could always end up with [i]worse[/i] resources. [/quote] There are nto many worse combos. That combo is bad for all trade circles..

[quote name='Mikeyrox' timestamp='1288136780' post='2493851'] Blame your bad luck for declaring war on us at the same time TPC was declaring war on you guys [/quote] I think you may have mixed "bad" with "good" in the quoted sentence

[quote]To: GoogleBot From: XXXXX Date: 10/26/2010 11:35:38 AM Subject: RE: Cruise Missile Attack Message: Cm's are a waste of time! I will not send them at you as long as you do not send any at me? I await you response? [/quote] This guy is getting CMed 2x a day for the rest of the war ooc : (that might be all I am able to do considering the underdog bonus was nerfed...)

Just an update - this appears to be completely removed from TE this round as compared with previous rounds. Seeing as I am in a position to make many uses of this.. I will be able to determine much more conclusively if a difference now exists

This topic really amuses me. Surely no one wants people in jobs requiring knowledge to have faked their way through them... right? Design engineers who cheated through physics/strengths of materials/design courses? Public defenders who faked through law school/BAR exams? Mechanics fixing your car who aren't qualified? No one in their right mind wants to deal with the consequences of this mentality. Very true.

Heh, I do love me some Halloween.

Farewell, friend. You were a solid member of the GPA for longer than nearly all of us have been around.

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1287867509' post='2491467'] [img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/cybernations/images/archive/0/0a/20101017221719!MHAtag.png[/img] This one? [/quote] Yup, thanks

If you want to be at the absolute top, you have to temp trade. A set like thsi - http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=364158 - for collecting, with temporary trades for all the "bill pay" resources and infra reductions when purchasing infrastructure is the way to go. War might be alittle rough again without temp trading however. For nations not looking to do that, a 3BR set is normally very good (such as this one - http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=316400).

Does anyone have the link to an image of the old forum pip for MHA (Harmlins) handy? I need it for my halloween costume

I voted. Definitely might be a good idea, who knows what'll happen from that site. CN is currently relatively solidly in 6th place,

I'm glad this was brought up because I was just wondering thsi myself

[quote name='Qaianna' timestamp='1287464088' post='2487471'] I'm assuming you mean the inherent penalty of Anarchy itself, as opposed to the more temporary nuclear fallout penalty, when it comes to the spying, right? [/quote] Well the economic penalty from anarchy is not tied to the actual government type (it normally is due to circumstances when people end up in anarchy though).

[quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1287132778' post='2485148'] Missing what fact? Most people I speak to have either Capitalist or Federal as their bill paying government. Democracy is only useful for collecting, and the interest you have to pay after leaving your bills for a couple of days before switching gov back is actually LESS than the discount that Capitalist/Federal gives you on bills. I actually don't know why you'd stay in Democracy all the time...[/quote] If you read my previous posts, I make the distinction that democracy is the best collection government. My apologies for not wording what you just quoted to also indicate such. [quote]I don't think you're taking into consideration the extra things that governments offer. Happiness is not the only factor in gov. It's also environment, and it's (in some cases) population, or soldier efficiency, or land bonus. Or anything. They make GM better, possibly in a marginal sense but still better. I'd take it over a GT any day. But arguing with you is pointless Not like anyone's going to change your mind, and no one's going to change my mind. [/quote] There is nearly no reason to collect with a government other than Democracy (I listed these exceptions earlier). [b]In spite of this[/b] the Great Monument is NEVER better than the Great Temple, but sometimes equal. The reason Democracy is such an ideal government is that it gives both an environment bonus AND a happiness bonus. It is true that a nation with a huge amount of land relative to infrastructure may be better off with Republic/Capitalist if the 5% land bonus is better than +1 happiness, but the levels of land required for this are such that nearly 20% of your citizens come from land - this is about a 5:1 land:infra ratio with the ADP. For the overwhelming majority of nations this is not the case. It is likewise true that for small nations, a desired gov of Monarchy/Totalitarian/Revolutionary may be slightly more profitable as well (technically large nations with perfect environment as well, but by this point nearly all have Great Monument anyways). You cannot change my mind because the Great Monument is [i]never[/i] better than the Great Temple. The math and numbers simply do not support that argument. I do not think you are even considering the mathematical approach to this question - because it is a straight forward answer afterwards, Great Temple >= Great Monument always results. Please describe a situation when the GM actually results in a more positive benefit than the Great Temple. You have to look at "what is ideal collection government in large variety of circumstances?" and look at the math. Not just use your gut instinct or whatever you've been using. Just an fyi too - gov has no direct effect on population (save soldiereff/environment/land effects). Soldier efficiency bonuses actually help Democracy be even a MORE superior government for the hardcore CNer, because if he/she is holding the absolute minimum ideal soldier count it would let him have a fair bit less actual soldiers (about 8% less) which will give a few more citizens.

You can have a total of six active wars at any time - three of them must be declared by you, and you may have up to three declared against you.

[quote name='Captain Nathan Brittles' timestamp='1286935008' post='2483094'] The problem is you're labelling a type of result that can occur at any odds attack as if it's only exists as an underdog bonus. I've had this result happen to me at 70%+ odds attacks. It's a result you only get if you lose (think of it as just missing the die roll needed to win the battle). So it's no surprise this is seen more when making low odds attacks since this is where you'll lose the most attacks. So somewhere along the line someone notices this result and the frequency in which it occurred to them at low odds and put 2+2 together and gets 5 and thinks they discovered some admin secret to help the underdog with a bonus. Admin has stated there is no underdog bonus. [/quote] Independent of what admin said, what the others are saying is still true - for a long time a nation attacking with low odds (5-15% or so, varied between TE/SE as to the threshold) would stand a high chance of a ground attack doing 1/2 damage, with money dropped and therefore a "loss." Whether this was incorrectly labeled an "underdog bonus" or was a glitch or unintended feature it still existed, regardless of name. I also do not believe this result ever happens with such high odds as you claim it has, so your experience is currently a huge anomaly This appears to not be the case now however.

[quote name='Captain Nathan Brittles' timestamp='1286943973' post='2483239'] Just to clarify having the preferred government or religion DOES NOT give a +1 happiness bonus as has been alluded to a number of times in this thread. Having the preferred government or religion avoids taking a -1 happiness penalty. It's an important distinction. [/quote] This distinction is completely irrelevant - what matters is that a nation with correct religion has +1 happiness with respect to a similar nation in all regards but correct gov. And also, depending on how you have your "base happiness" calculation it is possible that you actually will have to treat it as either a +1 or -1, respectively. [quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1286950962' post='2483350'] Picking ANY government gives perks other than a +1 happiness point. Therefore, you state they're "economically the same", but really they're not, because the government offers more, depending on which is chosen. Also make sure "chance" isn't mistaken for economical statistics and smarts. While there might be the "chance" that your people will want the gov you have, let's face it, the chance also suggests you won't get it. [/quote] Well my people currently want Democracy You are missing the fact that in most cases there is no reason to not have Democracy regardless of what your people want or what wonder you have. [quote name='nippy' timestamp='1287075623' post='2484509'] It sounds to me like you're arguing the opposite opinion of quigon's, though. He's trying to say that the GT is always better than the GM. You seem to be agreeing with Ironfist and I rather than quigon, which makes your 'edit' a bit confusing. [/quote] The Great Temple is always at least as good as the Great Monument. It is never worse, ever (unless a ruler for some reason doesn't realize that having a non-desired gov is often the best government choice, but I guess at that point it is pointless to try to discuss intricate CN economics...), while the GM can be worse than the GT. [quote name='iMatt' timestamp='1287077756' post='2484533']Edit: for me personally, I'll still get the GM first, since it gives me mobility of gov choice, and on average is "almost" as good as GT (+4.8 from above). [/quote] This is a more appropriate way to look at the difference (+4.8ish vs +5) between the two. It also shows that from a pure absolute standpoint the GT is always better though..

This is really neat. Everything looks quite professional too - good work!

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286941710' post='2483192'] I said in my post that there was a happiness bonus for Democracy. I also mentioned the +1 happiness for having the desired government. +4 upon purchase, +1 for desired govt., +1 for choosing Democracy = +6. What I didn't account for was a GT is +5 upon purchase and +1 for desired religion. So, in essence, they're both +6, unless I'm mistaken and the happiness bonus for choosing desired govt/religion is nullified upon purchase. Either way, despite Democracy being the sole government one should use in most instances, the happiness bonus it provides is nullified by your citizens wanting something else. This is why the GM makes more sense to get first than the GT. [/quote] This is still wrong. Your including the +1 from "choosing Democracy" applies whether or not you have the Great Monument. Adding the Great Monument will not make this bonus appear; you get it with or without the wonder. So if you have Democracy and it is not your preferred gov, you will get +5 additional when you buy GM -- a +4 from wonder, and another +1 from desired, total of +5. If your people want democracy and you buy GM, you get +4 from wonder, total of +4. Great Temple always gives a total of +5.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286908614' post='2482663'] Keep in mind that selecting Democracy gives you a happiness bonus. The GM would add another happiness bonus, thereby giving you a +6 happiness (+4 for the purchase, +1 for people wanting the govt. type, +1 for Democracy itself, not to mention all the other benefits of choosing Democracy). The +5 from the GT is set in stone, yes, but there are a lot of other factors to consider when picking a govt. [/quote] No. You get the +1 from democracy regardless of whether your people want Democracy or not. So it's still only +5, not +6 as you incorrectly state. Again this is with the assumption you have picked an optimal government choice for collection without the Great Monument. Democracy is a better government for collection than all but Capitalist and Republic (these are equal if your people want them) in almost all cases. The only case in which this might not be true is if your citizens want Monarchy/Revolutionary/Totalitarian AND you have a perfect environment w/o Border Walls; then these can be better than Democracy. In all other cases you should have Democracy for maximum collection purposes - even if you do not have the Great Monument.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286898527' post='2482488'] Okay, now explain that view. I concur with what Ironfist says, but you haven't really provided a counterpoint. [/quote] [quote]# Great Monument - $35,000,000 - The great monument is a testament to your great leadership. Increases happiness +4 and your population will always be happy with your government choice. [/quote] [quote]# Great Temple - $35,000,000 - The great temple is a dedicated shrine to your national religion. Increases happiness +5 and your population will always be happy with your religion choice.[/quote] Assuming one is able to determine which religion is correct (easy with quick google search), the Great Temple will always provide +5 happiness. A nation with a gov choice the people do not like has -1 happiness compared to a nation otherwise identical but who approve of their gov. For example, my population currently desires Democracy (I do not have Great Monument). If another nation is exactly the same as mine but whose people desire Communism, they will have one less base happiness than me. Note: if your people desire Communism you are far better off having Democracy as a government type as it is much superior (even though the people want Communism; this is true of most government types save Democracy/Republic/Capitalist). In my instance, because Democracy is the ideal tax collection government (this is true of probably 90% of nations, unless their people desire Capitalist or Republic and they do not have Great Monument) I will only receive +4 happiness for purchasing the Great Monument. However, in the event that I am the other nation (whose people prefer Communism but have Democracy) I will receive +4 happiness bonus from the Great Monument as well as +1 for now having the right government, or a total of +5. This is obviously equal to the Great Temple. The only instance the Great Monument would be [i]better[/i] would be if for some reason people were collecting using non-optimal governments and only will change to an optimal collection government if they have the Great Monument.

[quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1286887889' post='2482282'] Actually your belief is incorrect. Many think the GM is better because it frees up the government position and people are happy no matter what you choice your gov is (which actually can have an impact on your nation, in contrast to religion). One has actual reason to go against the people's gov desires, however a player would be mad to go against the religious desires. There's no point debating the fact that it's slightly better in happiness because most people here wouldn't care, given their people usually don't like their gov most of the time. [/quote] Ok, from a purely mechanical standpoint (best economic effect) the Great Monument is never better than the Great Temple. Sometimes it is equally good. But never better.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286823211' post='2481674'][b]A lot of people consider the GM a better purchase [/b]due to the 'no reason not to go with the religion your people want' bit, but I'll gladly suffer the minuscule consequences of my decision rather than having my country prefer a religion again. [/quote] This belief is never correct. The GM is never [i]better[/i] than the GT, at best it is equal.

It still exists in TE (where you have low odds and "lose" an attack - doing 1/2 damage but dropping money). I would imagine this is also present in SE.