JT Jag

And there he goes, retiring from the debate so he doesn't actually have to provide substance for any of his arguments. Typical.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286131090' post='2473235'] How can I argue my points, talking to anyone from goons is like talking to a wall, I mean you admit to partly obeying the rules, but claim you do not pick and choice what rules you follow, now unless your telling me someone out side of goons tell you what you can and can not do, your statement proves you pick and choice what rules you follow, it is that simple. [/quote]Please cite a single example of a member of GOONS intentionally breaking a rule.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286130470' post='2473208'] aaaawwwww there you go trying to control who post in the open world forum, bravo [/quote]No, seriously. Get out. You're terrible at this. At least Methrage has the decency to actually try and argue his points (terribly), you're not even that good.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286130217' post='2473200'] this reply simply proves my point, this is the reply the so call old goons would make too. [/quote]And this is the weak, contentless reply most of the sheep that dislike us would make too.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286130146' post='2473194'] this is what you said "- We obey the rules of the planet for the most part" so you do not obey them all, you obey the ones you wish to obey and ignore the rest ? damn this ABC is becoming imposable. A = - We obey the rules of the planet for the MOST PART so B = We do not obey them all proven by A so C = you pick what rules you wish to follow proven by B I am doing my best to make this simple for you, if you only obey some of the rules (stated by the fact you only follow the rules for the most part)this means you PICK what rules you will and will not follow ? it is simple!!!!!!! [/quote]You have terrible reading comprehension.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286129530' post='2473166'] 1) you would given the chance 4) you can not partly obey rules ?, your pretty much just stating you will obey by the ones you like and ignore those you do not, WOW that sounds like the old goons to me [/quote]1. Prove it 4. Where do I say that, exactly? Or are you just blatantly misinterpreting what I am saying to serve your agenda?

Also, Methy-poo, you still haven't elaborated on your contention that we break the rules, which was the single thing that most alienated Neutral Shoving the most in the end.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286128248' post='2473126'] In the first war you guys declared me while I was fighting Gremlins right after getting me sanctioned so I couldn't fight back, when I hit ZI and bill lock the first time I wasn't able to fight back or launch any nukes at you guys. I wasn't able to put up a fight to really fight back much until I was able to fix my trades and got out of bill lock. [/quote]Because it's not like you were aiding the guys we were at war with and refused to negotiate or anything.

[quote name='xoindotnler' timestamp='1286128010' post='2473116'] I think you mean two. [/quote]And Methrage is on the list for the same reason RUKUNU is: he declares new wars every week. Both of those guys could get off if they were willing to negotiate.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286127993' post='2473115'] Just because with your charter you decided to redefine what an alliance is to not including most of them doesn't mean you aren't attacking alliances. Also in our first war before I ever got secret aid it was only because you guys kept declaring on me and hitting me after I was ZI, back then you were trying to PZI me until some members some TOP decided to pay you a ridiculous sum, but the options were still PZI or large reps. With the way you guys destroyed CSA and other mico alliances where you've chased after members even after they leave the alliance or post on your mercy board is as bad as PZI, as most people don't stick around so they can amuse GOONS. [/quote]Because it's not like you were maintaining hostilities as well. And I've already conceeded we tech raid. So do 100 or so other alliances out there. What you are describing and what old GOONS did are orders of magnitude different.

edit: nevermind

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286127437' post='2473107'] These all sound like things you have in common with the old GOONS rather than being different, seems you still do all those things to me. From trying to PZI nations if you can, to demanding insane reps, randomly attacking people and not obeying the rules of the planet. How have you guys changed again? Seems the longer you're allowed to exist the more obvious it becomes you're not trying to be different from the old GOONS, you just continue to state the opposite of the truth on the forum like you're doing now. [/quote]Please back up any of your claims. 1. When do we PZI nations? We only have one nation on our EOG list, and that's only because he declares new wars on us every week. Got evidence to the contrary? Present it. 2. When have we demanded large reps when the entity in question was incapable of paying it? Don't cite your situation because you never even tried to negotiate. 3. We tech raid, we don't attack actual alliances willy-nilly like old GOONS. Got evidence to the contrary? Present it. 4. Please, cite a single example beyond the humdrum stuff everyone gets in trouble for every now and then.

Also we don't claim sovereignty over the black sphere, which was a pretty big deal.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286126018' post='2473088'] just points, as I really do not want to waste to much time on this, its hard to explain the simple things like the alphabet to any one in GOONz. Black Team Tech Raids Power abusive (pushing around small alliances) Hiding behind others (first NPO and now C&G, I know I will have to explain this later, so I will do so now, (MDoAP with MK and LOST the movers and shakers of C&G)) well there's 3 out of 3 for you. [/quote]While the last one is debatable, the first three things you can use to describe just about 10 different alliances. Things we do differently: - We don't PZI nations - Although we like reps as a result of a fight, we are happy to negotiate terms suitable for all sides involved if payment is impossible - We don't semi-randomly attack people because we feel like it - We obey the rules of the planet for the most part (ooc: we don't screw around with the OWF) These are the biggest things that people had against old GOONS. The things people use to slate my alliance are trifling little things that you could use to go against dozens of alliances out there.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286099709' post='2472905'] REALLY!!!! a member of GOONz saying that this "GOONz" is not the same as the old one, but yet they act every bit the same as the old "GOONz" ? well gosh, how was I meant to know you are not the same, you walk the same, talk the same, attack people with no justification (the same), think you are better then everyone else (the same) oooooo wait I see it now, you don't have NPO protecting you, Well I guess not all the same then. (how long before your new friends get sick of your crap like history have proven ?) [/quote]Please do give me a few undeniable examples of how we are the same. Really. Any percieved "attitude" doesn't count. Actions only. I will conceed both of them tech raid, but we are far from the only alliance that tech raids.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1286086783' post='2472842'] Yes, it's just that you've admitted your good reasons have in the past included "we were planning on betraying them at the soonest practical opportunity." [/quote]To be fair, VE was far from the only alliance that was diplomatically bound in some way to Hegemony that intended to try to roll them when the chance arose.

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1286070853' post='2472665'] No one force GOOBz to disband, you ran in fear to hide from the punishment, at least others like GATO, NPO, GPA (point of reference for alliances who had to pay over the odd reps) had the guts to stand up and be counted, GOONz just ran away, but then again it is not like GOONz ever had any honour now is it. [/quote]You seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that I care about the actions of the Neutral Shoving GOONS, and are making the implication that this alliance is anything like the old one. Both of these are faulty.

JT Jag from the Awful Enquirer here. Rumor has it STA and GOONS have opened diplomatic channels and the leadership of both alliances are actually developing something of a cordial relationship lately, do you have any comment?

[quote name='Dexomega' timestamp='1286044270' post='2472357'] I know not what you speak of, as this is planet Bob. [ooc]This is an IC forum. Good one.[/ooc] [/quote]Indeed it is. (OOC: it was originally posted in the ooc forum and moved here, though.)

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1285982742' post='2471751'] I see another Unjust war, where GOONs crap get them disbanded again [/quote]Forcibly disbanding alliances is bad unless it's GOONS.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1285975733' post='2471615'] Didn't some Kronos nation get involved? Unless their treaties to your MDP partners are chaining, it'd be an ODP commitement. [/quote]I hear there's an interesting story behind that and more information is to come of it soon, but that's not for here.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1285971269' post='2471512'] [color="#0000FF"]Go ahead an attack Brown Trade Partner. I'd love to see how well that would work out for you.[/color] [/quote]Be careful, Rebel Virginia. Saying "do something about it" is a valid CB these days.

[quote name='maxfiles' timestamp='1285946788' post='2471096'] its too bad karma never forced NPO to disband... it would have been poetic justice. [/quote]Just as poetic as a staunch gun control advocate murdering a gun company's CEO with a sniper rifle, I'd say.

I like these guys. They've got moxie.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1285934076' post='2470969'] The funny thing is that this is the logic that was used by [ANY ALLIANCE THAT HAS EVER BEEN ATTACKED] in [YEAR] when [ATTACKING GROUP] attacked them. That's why [ATTACKED ALLIANCE'S FRIEND 1] and [ATTACKED ALLIANCE'S FRIEND 2] were pulled in to defend [ANY ALLIANCE THAT HAS EVER BEEN ATTACKED]. So... congrats, GOONS. You're the new [ANY ALLIANCE THAT HAS EVER BEEN ATTACKED]. [/quote]Fixed this for you.