The Warrior

I look forward to what you all have in mind.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1271107759' post='2257746'] Then don't complain about how the game is playing out.[/quote] Well if these forums were actually for a poker game, then your 7-2 off suit bluff would be proper grounds to continue commenting as you are here. As it stands this is CN and the world is awaiting the end of these poor excuse's for responses to our inquisitions.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1271107358' post='2257735'] I'm not afraid of sunk costs, I just haven't folded after the turn. Seems to me like IRON/DAWN is on the draw for the river. Naturally, they will think otherwise. [/quote] It appears to me that the Gramlins are bluffing with a 7-2 off suit.

[quote name='shilo' date='12 April 2010 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1271106612' post='2257713'] I just have to say this: You currently are voluntarily weakening your position, you yourself, and everyone of your alliance mates getting fed false sentences from ram to be blurred out here. [b]Please continue doing so, I promise, in good time, we will allow you a seat at our table.[/b] [/quote] No unconditional surrender required.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1271105870' post='2257686'] All this talk of terms! How many times does it need to be said that there are no terms on the table? [/quote] There'd be no more talk of terms if the original offer wasn't given, rescinded, given again, and then rescinded a second time.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1271105419' post='2257673'] Is IRON so meek that they would never recover? That seems to be your contention, not mine. [/quote] My contention is found in your alliance's ludicrous demands.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1271105156' post='2257666'] We want you to voluntarily weaken your position [b]so that you will never recover and be destroyed.[/b] [/quote] Amiright?

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:36 PM' timestamp='1271104565' post='2257648'] Not to the point of stupidity but certainly to the point of strategy. [/quote] I'd make the argument that demanding this term and pissing off the rest of CN is not a very good strategy. Re-think things, or at least... try thinking next time.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1271103762' post='2257632'] What I stated was that I would never "accept whatever terms were offered" If terms are eventually offered and IRON does not accept them that is their prerogative. [b]Certainly after demilitarizing it may place them in a different position as the "bargaining table" if you will and it opens them up to a different risk.[/b] But there is no reason why IRON couldn't retrain soldiers, tanks, aircraft, CM etc very quickly should they find terms unacceptable.[/quote] As you have stated here, you are truly giving us no option. That is not an option and I venture a guess that was it you being asked to unconditionally surrender, you would reject this term. And as it stands right now we still have a "mystery box" option on the table. Your demilitarization terms could very well include the destruction of our military improvements and possibly wonders. If that were the case, re-militarizing for us really could not happen. Doesn't matter how many soldiers, tanks or nukes you try to buy back if you have no GC's, barracks, satellites or MP's.

[quote]Aeternos Astramora, on 12 April 2010 - 12:21 PM, said: [b]And you would accept unconditional surrender and be perfectly willing to accept WHATEVER peace terms they give you?[/b][/quote] [quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1271102902' post='2257612'] [b]Of course not[/b], and I'd never expect anybody else to do so either. "Unconditionally surrender" and "willing to accept whatever peace terms they give you" are two different, and separable, things"[/quote] So let me recap: You would never expect anybody to unconditionally surrender? And you have just stated that you would never accept such a term either? It appears to me that you sir have just stated that you are casting aside the codex that you continually insist that you follow. If you would not accept this term if given to you, yet you offer the term to us, you are indeed offering a term that you would not accept and therefore break your codex.

[quote name='SynthFG' date='12 April 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1271094091' post='2257478'] GRE's attack on IRON was made clearly in defence of MK. Anyway in case you have been living under a rock I resigned from Gre Gov a few days ago and am leaving the alliance[/quote] Still an aggressive attack on IRON and no grounds by which to claim that [b][i]we[/i][/b] have aligned ourselves against gRAMlins twice in a row. Secondly, I for one applaud your decision to leave the alliance. I wish you luck in whatever your new home may be Synth.

[quote name='SynthFG' date='12 April 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1271093151' post='2257461'] The real pity here is that it's distracting from what a detestable bunch DAWN are, IRON are beaten and well beaten at that, DAWN deserve nothing but the contempt and pain due to failed bandwaggoners [/quote] No. The real pity here is that you attempt to paint DAWN in a negative light, when in reality it is your alliance who has "bandwaggoned" twice in order to hit IRON and your government cites you attacking us aggressively as a reason to keep us in a perma war. The numbers aren't adding up here.

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='12 April 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1271091780' post='2257439'] I'm sorry, IRC is not an acceptable form of communication. Should you have any inquiries about membership, the organization itself, or our policies, you'll need to come visit our forums. [/quote] Well played.

Congratulations on your treaty and friendship. o/

This move was simply made to protect our MDP partners in the kiwis from mass raids. I will be in touch with TPC and we will sort this all out.

[quote name='Mad Mike' date='12 April 2010 - 08:34 AM' timestamp='1271057645' post='2257205'] forums and irc are quite different. [/quote] This is a matter of semantics and a poor excuse for not speaking with us. [quote name='The Big Bad' date='12 April 2010 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1271070186' post='2257260'] Yes they are. Nobody uses forums for diplomacy, in fact many alliances have started giving up the forum embassy all together. That being said your pathetic leadership has already said they do not want to talk. Why is it eveyone else has a better idea what your leaders have been saying then your members do? I understand they would not want to tell you they have managed to turn everybody against you and are completely incompetent but, you can see their very words right here. [/quote] IRC allows one to actually communicate with another human being in real time. If the gRAMlins were only willing to speak with IRON and DAWN via your forums, it would take [b][i]years[/i][/b] for this situation to find a resolution based on the in-activeness of your membership and the run-around that every single member of Planet Bob has been given in regards to the current situation. Although based on what we've all seen so far, I get the feeling that you guys won't mind this lasting years.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 05:47 AM' timestamp='1271047650' post='2257090'] If I found myself defeated I shouldn't think I would refuse. [/quote] I'm calling BS. [quote name='Mad Mike' date='12 April 2010 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1271048128' post='2257103'] [b]maybe if IRON or DAWN actually came to the gremlins forums and asked the questions that Lord Brendan has they would get the answers they desire.[/b] It amazes me that the only person whom even comes to our forums and ask us questions is not even involved. The embassies for IRON have not even been used in over three months on the gremlins forums, the last time anyone posted in the IRON embassy was December 26th 2009. And DAWN does not even have an embassy that i can find on the Gremlins forums. This really shows and showed a lot of initiative to incite peace in this conflict. AS for "unconditional surrender" nobody ever said "hand me your keys," it is basically just another term for what is already been done and is being done currently. Just being called a different name and all hell breaks loose from assumptions and innuendos.[/quote] This is a funny statement. If I recall correctly there are logs floating around in these threads somewhere that have Ramirus saying something to the effect of: "Tell Peron to stop sending people to talk to me. I will not talk to IRON until they lay down their arms." But really though, keep pretending like you guys are trying to work with us. EDIT: Matt Miller found the logs. See his post above.

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='11 April 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1271020697' post='2256580'] What Gremlins want is for IRON to say "we surrender and accept whatever terms you offer". IRON would then be given a 3-4 day ceasefire during which Gremlins want them to decommission all tanks, CMs, navy, aircraft and nukes, plus soldiers down to a certain level, in addition to leaving peace mode. It is at this point that they would reveal the terms, the nature of which I don't even think most Gremlins know.[/quote] Once again I question why Ramirus is apparently so willing to speak to a member of CSN on the matter but not IRON or DAWN. Secondly, No. [quote name='Shamshir' date='11 April 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1271026368' post='2256654'] Tis an internal matter, and I just told you how we would use it. In my eyes as per the codex [b]I would expect if you choose to unconditionally surrender IRON would get white peace and DAWN would have to pay tech reps.[/b] But all I have is my word and I can tell you if they are not terms I would take if the sides were swapped I'll happily join join methrage in his cause. [b]If you choose to believe the worst assumptions of those on the OWF then that's your call.[/b] I would have hoped people would know the actual member of my alliance a little better and not let their view be clouded by those who shout the loudest on this stage who will come to the certain conclusion that if you do surrender only the above terms i stated are what we will give.[/quote] How do you figure that IRON would be granted white peace and why would DAWN be forced to pay reps? Also, What other option have you given us? [quote name='Blue Lightning' date='12 April 2010 - 12:43 AM' timestamp='1271029367' post='2256694'] Shamshir: [b]If you're just going to give white peace, then give white peace.[/b] If you're going to demand reps, then demand reps. If you want to end this war, then do so. It's completely within your powers to end the war today or tomorrow if you wanted to. The trouble is, you are demanding that you opponents hand over the keys to their alliance to you, and trust that you wont run it into the ground even though you have the power to do so (though your government is just saying "Hand over your alliance" with no implication of what may follow). [b]This is a term that Gremlins would never accept it's self, and so by issuing this demand, you are already violating your own codex. How are IRON or DAWN meant to take your codex seriously when you've already violated it in this (and several other) way(s)?[/b] [/quote] This and this. [quote name='The Big Bad' date='12 April 2010 - 01:06 AM' timestamp='1271030800' post='2256719'] They don't choose to believe the worst they and everyone else has already seen it. [b]What is the point of unconditional surrender? It is simply to shame your enemy.[/b] You then offer whatever terms you wish and if they do not like them you can bash them for breaking the surrender terms. As I have said the only thing more foolish then taking such terms is offering them. The "mystery" terms to come later, no matter how heavy or light, pale in comparison to trying to humiliate your enemy with unconditional surrender. If you have terms offer them, this is the very basics of diplomacy on Planet Bob that Gramlins leadership seem unable to grasp. You ask people to trust you will follow the Codex when you already ignore it? or or are you telling me Gramlins would ever accept unconditional surrender to any alliance? You damn well know you would not. You have already tossed the codex into the very same dustbin your entire seems to be headed to. [/quote] We will never allow ourselves to be subjected to such a term.

[quote name='Carlton the Great' date='11 April 2010 - 06:20 PM' timestamp='1271006435' post='2256420'] Congratulations to IRON on their first Grämlin surrender [/quote] Thank you Carlton. This nation made a wise decision. [quote name='Lord Brendan' date='11 April 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1271009905' post='2256451'] After discussing the issue quite a bit with Ram and some other Gremlins, I feel that the terms (or lack thereof) are not quite as ridiculous as I originally thought. Although I still feel that Gremlins are being unreasonably stubborn about this, I think it's in IRON's best interests to comply with the Gremlins' demands rather than remain in peace mode indefinitely. [/quote] Well we are sure glad that Ram will talk to you about his plans for our alliance , however I'm pretty sure that he is talking to the wrong people and his request is unacceptable.

Congratulations to my very good friends and brothers in TOP! I wish the new government the best of luck. Sky

This looks very reasonable. I am really interested to see how Sam Bradford works out in the NFL also. He looks good in his work outs and as you have mentioned he packed on a lot of muscle.

[quote name='jstep' date='09 April 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1270817497' post='2254227'] who has a top tier anymore anyways? [/quote] They went out of style. Looks like no one told the Ramlins.

Congrats Ninjas. Now if only you weren't so darn sneaky.

Oh Methrage.. Show them what's up brother!

I was hoping this would be on someone else. Good luck in your endeavor though.