SpiderJerusalem

Oh, so much to fix and so little time, my comments in coward yellow.[color="#FFA500"][/color] [quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1292839200' post='2546319'] You know what I find funny that most of these people that are saying PC and iFOK should ignore their allies wishes and fight anyway were the same people throwing a fit about ODN working out a deal against their allies wishes. Got to love how things work around here. That being said in terms of this whole situation. You can look at it this way in regards to a treaty and options in full legal terms: [s]1. Dark Fist is a protected alliance[/s][color="#FFA500"]This is a common misconception. However, DF was [i]not[/i] an alliance at the time of the attack[/color], in which case NEW [s]"DoWed"[/s] them.[color="#FFA500"]There was no DoW involved, as it wasn't needed. It was a raid that was legal per NEW's rules, and also per the standards of PC.[/color] This results ins no oA clause being activated on this for Dark Fist but [b]when other alliances attack it becomes defense of NEW and the non-chaining clause of the treaty doesn't work because it wasn't one of NEW's allies messing up but NEW itself.[/b] [color="#FFA500"]There we go. The oA clause doesn't come in play here, as it's [b]defence[/b].[/color] [b]2. Dark Fist is not considered a protected AA by NEW's allies in which case the attacks are completely unprovoked and the mutual defense option must be exercised. [/b][color="#FFA500"]This is a very important point. Since PC believe that it was NEW's right to raid the non existing alliance of DF, it's clearly so that the MDP part must be activated.[/color] Either way the MDP portion should be activated regardless if NEW's aggressive action was incredibly stupid and I wonder if this will lead to clauses being written into treaties about alliances being able to request no-aid being sent or defense being not mandatory because that would be a smart move. [/quote] There we go [quote name='Bob Sanders' timestamp='1292839371' post='2546322'] You're making a simple mistake, assuming that PC has the skills or wherewithal to establish and follow a coherent FA policy. PC is an attack dog on the leash of whomever is in their ear at the time. Right now it happens to be their fellow PB alliances who don't want this war. [/quote] Well... The fault on my part is that I always assumed that PC was a wild dog who would protect it's family and stand up for itself. However, after this I can only compare them to a domesticated chihuahua [s]!@#$%* (the technical correct term, not the foul word)[/s] [i]female dog[/i]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1292832128' post='2546219'] Dear SpiderJ <3 Signed, WickedJ P.S. remember this? http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=58325 [/quote] Hi wicked. Also, that link is a gem that proves my point. Thanks [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1292832597' post='2546231'] Per NEW's logic, up is down, left is right, and you're a smart fellow. Just because NEW says an aggressive action is not an aggressive action doesn't somehow make it magically true. Just because you think that somehow all treaties above a NAP are MADPs doesn't make that true either. What I see are [i]droves[/i] of people pissed off at PC and iFOK for not fulfilling the popular and depraved fantasy that a KARMA CIVIL WAR would erupt from NEW blowing a raid (millions shocked). NEW is almost universally recognized as in the wrong by friends, foes, acquaintances, and total invalids. No amount of raw emotion or legal gymnastics is going to change their relationship with their allies into one where PC and iFOK are obligated to follow NEW in every stupid little venture that crosses their pretty little heads. [/quote] Ardus. You are smarter than this. It is not about protecting NEW because they deserve it. It is about protecting NEW because Poison Clan has done the [b]exact same thing[/b] as NEW before, and have suddenly changed their moral view on the world because now it's convinient of them to do so. If Poison Clan had [i]any[/i] balls at all, they would have defended NEW, no matter what the consequences would be. Because, they don't have a NAP (Not that they wouldn't break that if they had to ), but they do have an obligation to [b]defend[/b] them through their M[b]D[/b]oAP. And as Poison Clan have so eloquently pointed out before, raiding dead alliances is perfectly fine. But when was this, I can't quite bring my mind to remember it [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1292833674' post='2546254'] I seem to remember PC raising a stink when STA stopped \m/ from raiding the remnants of GGA. They were quite approving of raiding dead alliances then. [/quote] Oh, never mind, there it was.

This is !@#$%^&*. Per NEW's logic, they weren't attacking an alliance, as it had disbanded and had less than ten members. As far as I know, PC isn't all that strict on the raid rules either, so the same should apply for them. By NEW's standards, this won't come under the oA clause at all, and shouldn't do by PC's standards either. Your problem is that you are unsure on how this one would have played out if you defended NEW. And don't come with any "We've defended our allies no matter what" in the past. You haven't been close to the losing side ever since you climbed a bit higher on the hierarchical pyramid. So man the $%&@ up or at least admit that you're too happy with your position to ever risk the current balance in the world. Don't blame it on the old "oA" clause. In global wars, you have treaty chained like a mother to get to war, on the right side. It is and will always be optional when convenient. [quote]If anyone in this sh*thole world gave two tugs of a dead dog's c*ck about Truth, this wouldn't be happening.[/quote]

[quote name='Jeb the Wise' timestamp='1292783965' post='2544641'] No, it's all lies! [/quote] Well... I believe that your comment was a good one, but not for the same reasons as you think it was

Oh really now?

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1292346214' post='2539525'] The whole Legion dropping Val/BAPS situation came out pretty clearly on these forums a while back Just takes some memory/a bit of searching to find it. [/quote] Stop giving out hints

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1292288610' post='2538952'] Hi. My name is Cager. I appeared on Planet Bob right after Great War 1. Fought in Great War 2 AND Great War 3 with the NPO. I was part of the opening blitz again GATO during the Third Great War. I saw your alliance trip and fall over itself fighting TOP and FAN. I've been in every NPO conflict from GW2 to Karma. Please enlighten yourself. [/quote] He sure showed you

[quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1292285058' post='2538896'] Dear Bob You Sir, are a tease. Love Pansy [/quote] Look who's talking

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1292270606' post='2538633'] Holy carp (see avatar), Legion has a Latin speaker and I don't think anyone in RoK can speak a word of ancient Norse. Maybe Valhalla or Asgaard would lend us a teacher so we can give more character to our posts. [/quote] That's because you have lost your only [i]real[/i] viking [quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1292271786' post='2538656'] kveða ófriðr need we vikings say more [/quote] Well, not really

Polar... You have fallen a long way since I last visited this planet... Why, oh why did you ally these drooling, inbred, good for nothing cowards?

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1291901053' post='2534836'] It felt necessary, Karma in Nemesis is the best time I've ever had on this planet. Love your new nation Stick around some SpiderJ. [/quote] Oh, I will... Want to correct my terrible mistake of ever leaving Nemesis... Feels good to wear that AA again

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1291900131' post='2534829'] World Federation in being a terrible alliance shocker. [/quote] Love your new AA hun

Sucks that I don't have my old nation... I would looove to go nuke rogue just about now... Recruiting in this fashion is despicable [quote]To: SpiderJerusalem From: Ruler of LZR Date: 12/7/2010 8:09:42 PM Subject: About Nemesis and how I can help Message: I don't know if you knew this but Nemesis has disbanded. Personally, I'd like to see you come join me at World Federation. We just recently won a green team senate seat (I was elected) and we will set up all of your trades and tech deals. I don't want to see you get attacked by other people because your alliance has disbanded. If you're interested, head over to our forums and switch your alliance affiliation to World Federation Applicant. [/quote]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1291670124' post='2532267'] Remember these? :WARNING: SLIGHT PROFANITY WITHIN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoDIGvBUc7o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Cuu3dBvrE&feature=related Great, great times. [/quote] Oh my... Almost forgot those

Say it isn't so... Good luck folks... That signature list almost brings a tear to my eye o/ Nemesis

I see lots of shady characters in that government... *cough* Congrats to all the elected. I know I've been on vacation too long when I didn't know that Thierra was back on his old playground as MoIA... Excellent choice, excellent choice indeed

[url=http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showtopic=20380&hl=]Brotheringtons finest moment[/url] GOONS

Hi AUT Good to see you working Also, hi Bob

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1291018670' post='2525784'] CyberNations needs a massive update. Fix the military equations for war and uncap the aid limit. That will fire up the engines on this beast. And if it doesn't? Well, was fun while it was.... [/quote] Agreed. We have to increase the aid cap for money, but not for tech. And wars have to become waaaaay more destructive and costly. We have nations with 10 bn war chests... They won't even notice a war. Same with new nations. If they have the possibility to get way more aid, they will grow faster and get ready in a much shorter time. And, as a nice side effect, it will bring back the banking strategy in wars

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1290912349' post='2525038'] If you look at the wars that've been fought, they're for anything but simple minded reasons - whether you agree with them or not.[/quote] Oh, I agree that the wars have not been fought on simple minded reasons. The problem is, it's a long time since the last war, and the behaviour on the forums towards alliances further down on the food chain is what's simple minded. [quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1290912349' post='2525038']This goes both ways. My hand is forced by the fact that if I 'lose', they'll do everything they can to drive me away from the game, permanently.[/quote] I really don't believe that they are that stupid actually. Even they have to realise that if they continue down that path, this game will die. [quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1290912349' post='2525038']I'll be much more comfortable with 'fun' when the stakes for losing are significantly different. But as it stands; no. I'm a big fan of boot-on-throat for now.[/quote] Again, isn't that what you fought for in Karma? To get that jackboot the hell away? Is it really that fun to be untouchable? Is it really that fun to feel the power? From what I remember, it was really boring to be in the drivers seat when you don't have anyone to race. [quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1290912349' post='2525038']Again, see above. It has to go both ways; and we both know it won't, so it can't.[/quote] The only thing that have gone both ways is the power abuse. If you hadn't abused your power to such a degree, then maybe, just maybe they wouldn't be hell bent on revenge?

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1290910428' post='2525014'] You can't force your opponents to speak up, SJ. Why exactly is that on our shoulders? [/quote] No, you can't and it's their own choice, of course. However, the fact that the ruling gang are acting like a bunch of simple minded fine gentlemen is on your shoulders. The behaviour that have been displayed in later times is beyond idiotic. The thing is, this is not a game of win or lose. This is a game where you are supposed to have fun. And it's your "burden" to make sure that people on the losing side have fun as well, if not, they will quit, and you will remain the sole ruler of a dead planet. You have to make sure that they [i]can[/i] speak freely, directly and a bit harshly. You have to make sure that they will give [i]you[/i] the possibility of entertainment, by not enforcing strict rules and draconian terms if they as much as sneeze in your direction. You have to make sure that [i]you[/i] do all that you can to keep it interesting. Panem et circenses, my friend... Also, hi, long time no see

The root cause of people leaving the game is because now people get butthurt over minor issues. Take a look at the language use, the politics, the open hostility etc, etc, etc that was the "old" CN... Now, take a look at the forums today. It is seldom that people have anything interesting to say, and alliances that have lost wars stay away from the forums in fear for another beat down. I hoped that when MK and crew came to power that this would change, but alas no. And that's why I won't get active in the game again, at least for now

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1290762822' post='2523746'] Haven't seen you in a while. Good show, Ragnarok. [/quote] Nah... Just hanging around with my 0 NS nation... Hi btw

[quote name='Tiggah' timestamp='1290710065' post='2523163'] I find this shocking.. Will look into. [/quote] I believe the lack of awesomeness on both parts have caused it

ODN are inactive? For shame