Mandystalin
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Everything posted by Mandystalin
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I'm loving the irony... In other news, ain't it depressing how the OWF doesn't change. Everyone still fighting the same verbal battles since Bob's creation -
A MHAnnouncement, A Harmless Statement
Mandystalin replied to LJ Scott's topic in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Check the bold letters in the announcement... -
Oculus alliance leader #1 - "hey let's roll someone" Oculus alliance leader #2 - "how about TTK" Other Oculus alliance leaders - "yeah, sure" Oculus alliance leader #1 - "ok I have made up a bull CB based on the flimsiest of not really evidence" Oculus alliance leader #2 - "good, that will piss them off and give our OWF trolls something to feed on" Oculus alliance leader #1 - "hey let's roll someone" Oculus alliance leader #2 - "how about NADC" Other Oculus alliance leaders - "yeah, sure" Oculus alliance leader #1 - "ok I have made up a bull CB based on the flimsiest of not really evidence" Oculus alliance leader #2 - "good, that will piss them off and give our OWF trolls something to feed on" I am spotting a pattern. I wonder who is next?
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I warn you, there will be 15 pages of gunk to wade through before you finally get to an implicit admission that actually they just did it because they could, rather than because there was any real issue there.
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Mate, it is really a bad idea to give advice if you don't follow it yourself. My post and my point had nothing whatsoever to do with Noctis and his spurious claims. I just realised that we have some common ground... careful or we might become friends Sigh. We all know that no actual evidence of TTK plotting is ever going to be published. And despite all the attempts to make it look like that is because U iz trollz lolz, both sides in the conflict know that it is simply because such evidence does not exist. Plain & simple. Why do I keep returning to that point? Again, it is simple. As part of this war you are attempting to impugn our good name, and I'm attempting to prevent that - after all, silence on the issue would certainly be construed as implicit acknowledgement.
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Actually they might - they certainly did after the last war, which has been postulated as a possible reason for this war. And we see no reason to ask anybody else to be curbstomped too, it is kinda counter-productive to activate treaties when the enemy is so numerous that any counter will quickly become bogged down in perma-anarchy. But you know that Could it possibly be that you are/were hoping we'd call for help so lots of pesky little AA's could be rolled at once? This has also been postulated as a possible reason for this war. Overall your post simply returns to my point about the couple arguing. 'Mad @ U / Why / Ain't telling' (except with longer words) Oh, except you did, but wouldn't share publicly. And oddly it has been rather quiet since it went public, except for Noctis and Junka spamming the hell out of our general Discord And the 'evidence' simply returns to my point about you chaps wanting a war and leaping at the first possible excuse, no matter how slight. Interestingly the new line now seems to be 'oh, that isn't the evidence. Oh no. We, uh, we shared that with you as a joke'
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Sigh. Nice try but poor logic 1) Not implying anything of the sort. Once we were sent the shots of Gh0s7's convo guess who we talked to... 2) Not us that posted them. It is an important distinction. 3) Yes of course, they sent them for the lulz. Silly me. And there is yet more mythical evidence. Also, ain't it a shame that sarcasm is so hard to show in writing But I do owe you one apology, I did not check on the membership of your alliance. My bad, I will be more accurate in future
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And it has. Screenshots of the Discord conversation that are the reason behind the war have been posted in TTK's general (public) Discord, by their author. A censored copy of this convo was sent to us by Oculus as explanation for their attack, and that formed the rock of my 'you have no evidence TTK is plotting' argument. We were asked not to share the screenshots to prevent speculation as to their source, which we honoured, but that cat is out of the bag now. So please, go take a look and make up your own minds. ☺
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Page 15, as promised. The discussion appears to have tailed off, as it does. Noctis is back with his 'TTK sanctioned me' claim, so I'll just re-post my original response Oh there was this (expected) response The only reason I quote it is that it made me realise what this whole discussion reminded me of. You know those ridiculous arguments some couples have? "I'm mad at you" "Why?" "Well if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" Oh my word, the irony... (my bolding) I know I've been giving specific page numbers for my return, but there seems no point in this because the discussion is going nowhere. Even I'm getting fed up of me popping in every few pages and pointing out that nothing has changed. I'll pop back if anything worthwhile happens...
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Page 12, so here I am Amazingly nothing appears to have changed. There is still no actual detail of what we were supposedly doing, or even which set of people were supposedly doing it. Though I am amused at the 'oh you should confess' type responses. That's just a pure fishing expedition There is still no attempt to justify with all this evidence you claim to have either. Again, if you had any you'd be rubbing our faces in it. All in all I'm sticking with my earlier summation - y'all wanted to stomp us for whatever reason of your own and tacked on a reason. Just a shame you didn't spend more time in getting your story straight first. In all honesty, much as M3D's declaration was pure trolling, at least it was honest and consistent. I will assume that the standard responses will be forthcoming, and I will see you all again at page 15.
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Oh I see... it is a matter of faith. Seeking answers apparently doesn't extend to actually talking with the people you believe to be at fault, so pardon me if I am hesitant to accept your assurances. Edit - I replied in haste, never a good idea. Shocked disbelief is actually a pretty good description of my initial reaction. It is traditionally the reaction of those falsely accused of a crime. Particularly one whose exact nature is not only withheld but is apparently not even agreed upon. I prefer to think of my subsequent posts as seeking the truth, but I suppose opinions can differ. And actually the fact that my debating style is being attacked rather than my argument is a good indicator that I am hitting home. Any moment now some senior Oculus member will post that I'm a hater, and then I'll know I've upset their applecart
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So I see you've looked me up now I also must bow to your knowledge of the relative activity levels of our gov members. Assuredly it is greater than the knowledge of a TTK gov member. But sarcasm aside. What lies have I told? Find one. Bottom Line, if you actually had proof - the proof others have claimed is plentiful and obvious - you would be shouting it from the rooftops. Look everybody, look what we found, look how hypocritical those holier-than-thou Templars are, etc etc. Rubbing our faces in it all the way. Bottom Bottom Line (if that makes any sense ), you still haven't actually told anybody what it is you claim we did. And we're back to my initial textwall and the circular argument continues. See you on page 12
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There is indeed plenty of material out there on the membership of TTK gov. Which is why I am surprised.
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Oh my word... "We're going to war with you, but you have to work out why" ...
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Maybe you need to do your homework on TTK and its government
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If you cut out all the supposition (and unless I'm reading it wrong you seem to think Blackatron is our leader?) the only thing of substance is that Gh0s7 requested sanctions against you on behalf of an entirely different alliance (ie: not TTK). Now I really don't want to touch your history with a barge-pole, I'm sure it can rattle on for days about who did which to why. But Alliance A wanting 1-man micro B sanctioned equals Alliance C's crime? Sigh.
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I am going with nothing - I am simply following good debating technique by not getting sucked into a different argument and thereby losing sight of my point. And my point remains the utter absurdity that all of Oculus can go to war against my beloved little alliance... and yet they can't agree why. Until this issue is addressed, there is just no point in carrying on the debate
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And here we return to my post - are we being rolled for simply harbouring somebody who was (supposedly) plotting, or are we being rolled for (supposedly) plotting ourselves? It is a bad sign when you can't even state categorically what false reason you are using to attack us
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I am. I'm highlighting the problem and I'm fighting back against my attackers. What more can I do? Plot?
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I prefer "They interrupted my holiday and my sled for no good reason... war" But seriously. TTK is accused of plotting "a future Crusade against the Church of Oculus" and of "dispatching agents to other alliances to intercede on their behalf" I actually started typing out a big reply logically explaining why this would be an illogical course of action for TTK, but then I wondered why I was a) insulting the OWF's collective intelligence and b) wasting my breath/pixels. We all know that the CB is irrelevant and made up. Tellingly, despite an impressive sticking to the party line of 'U iz plotterz' by the Oculus member nations, the story behind it wobbles about with every argument - here and elsewhere. Was it because Gh0s7 was a member? Was it because we (supposedly) knew what he was (supposedly) doing and didn't stop it? Was it because we (supposedly) knew what he was (supposedly) doing and (supposedly) supported/encouraged it? Was it because we (supposedly) instigated whatever it was he was (supposedly) doing? Was it because TTK itself is (supposedly) plotting some anti-Oc nastiness? There is no clear party line on the CB, there is no clarity offered when requested, evidence is claimed but not forthcoming... need I even point out that TTK was never approached by anybody to explain itself. The inescapable conclusion? They were looking for a fight. The only worthwhile question IMO is why. Maybe they were trying to restart the war that just finished. Maybe they were trying to punish TTK for its part in that war. maybe they are making a point about what happens when somebody stands up to the Oc-bloc. Maybe they were worried that we had attained some sort of figurehead prominence after the last war and wanted to stamp on that. Only Oculus' leaders know, and they aren't telling.
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So let us get this straight... Oculus went to war with TTK because (based on a mask on Discord) they mistakenly believed that a player who they believed was working against them was a member of (or at least being aided and abetted by) TTK. Well then it is all good. Just an unfortunate mistake. We will be happy with a simple apology and maybe some reparations for damages done.
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Sorry, what? Sorry, what? Y'all need to do better than that. Your intel is more sexed-up than Bush/Blairs before Iraq.
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Wait, we signed something? I thought we were just spending the weekend in the woods running with the pack...
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As to the first, yeah probably. NG have always had a thing for us. Three times now they have engineered a war with us, three times we have done more damage than we took (overall the 'conflict won' score is currently at one-all, due to our front often being a smaller part in wider conflicts). As to the second, well the first we knew there was a problem was when they cancelled OBHF. They have yet to actually inform us what any of the alledged grievences actually were. The topic on it in here, if you can be bothered to read it (I wouldn't blame you if you can't be bothered ) contains lots of detail about the diplomatic efforts on our side. I refer you back to the first point... they wanted a war because they wanted a war, not because we didn't talk to them enough
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OMG, an active NGer Hey kerschbs, nice to see you.
