The FSM

[quote name='Triyun' date='07 July 2010 - 11:56 PM' timestamp='1278561372' post='2363115'] The United States of China has no intention to send marines to setup pho restaurants in Girltopia's capital. However, we will not tolerate attacks upon vessels and aircraft in waters which we do not recognize the sovereignty over of Girltopia. OOC: there is no international law of the seas in CN RP. [/quote] OOC: Many RPers have defined the extent of their national maritime claims and 'national waters' are frequently cited in military movement threads and naval campaigns. During the Iberian War there was alot of IC mudslinging because Lavo placed ships in ITDA's national waters. Im aware there are no international laws in CNRP, however most people accept that every nation has a right to claim 'national waters.' IC: While the Sicilian League is reassured to hear that the USC has no designs on forcibly opening Girltopian markets to Vietnamese trade, we will take note oh how readily the USC takes license to interfere in other nations' domestic affairs

[quote name='HHAYD' date='07 July 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1278554739' post='2363004'] You use extra large bear traps and bury them barely under the dirt. Today, anti-infantry mines can be ignited by the attackers using a long nylon rope attached with explosives fired out of a cannon without using massive amount of cannon fodders. Highly durable bear traps can resist the explosions unless if directly hit. [/quote] An explosion would mangle your beatrap at least to the point where the springs that activate the trap no longer function properly.

[quote name='Triyun' date='07 July 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1278557802' post='2363041'] Trade is an international issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back to school. Of course its an aggressive act. To declare your hostility without provocation and with no reason given shows the nation's intent to be hostile. The United States of China will protect the freedom of the seas if it is illegally stripped from its allies. We simply will not recognize the maritime borders of such a hostile nation. [/quote] The Sicilian League is happy to see that the USC stands for the freedom of the seas. We hope that the USC will also stand for the sovreignty of national waters and will not forcibly end the Girltopian embargo and somehow forcibly open the nation to Vietnamese trade in opposition to what appears to be widespread domestic support for such a national trade policy.

[quote][u][b]Ligurian Territorial Transfer Agreement[/b][/u] [b]Article I. Scope of Agreement[/b] The Ligurian Territorial Transfer Agreement (LTTA) formalizes the transfer of the Ligurian Region to the Government of the Duchy of Liguria and Duke Benito Abate. This agreement also defines the extent of economic, civil, diplomatic, and defense relations between the Duchy of Liguria and the Sicilian League. [b]Article II. Territorial Boundaries[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] The Sicilian League hereby cedes the Province of Liguria, including the city of Genoa, to the Duchy of Liguria. [i]Clause 2.[/i] In the event of a failure of the Ligurian Government, the territory ceded under this Agreement will be administered by the Sicilian League or its inheritor. [i]Clause 3.[/i] The Duchy of Liguria, or its inheritor, shall make no agreement concerning the ownership of territories ceded under this agreement with another state, nation, government or entity without the express consent of the Sicilian League or its inheritor. [b]Article III. Diplomatic Agreements[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to refrain from any acts which may undermine the terms of this agreement or the spirit of mutual trust and cooperation that led to the signing of this agreement. [i]Clause 2.[/i] The parties agree to maintain constant diplomatic contact through the permanent exchange of ambassadors [b]Article IV. Economic Agreements[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to remove all tariffs, quotas and other trade barriers that hinder the free flow of goods between the parties. [i]Clause 2.[/i] Neither party will enact policies which hinder or limit the flow of goods between the parties. [i]Clause 3.[/i] Neither party will enact policies designed to hamper the ability of companies based in the other party to operate in territories governed by the party in question. [b]Article V. Cultural Agreements[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] Neither party will enact policies which unduly restrict the ability of citizens of either party to cross into territories of the other party for reasons of tourism, travel, or business. [b]Article VI. Defense Agreements[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to defend each other in the following situations [u]Section A.[/u] The party in need of assistance has not committed an action or actions which instigated the conflict. [u] Section B.[/u] The party in need of assistance is not engaged in conflict due to a defense agreement with a nation that does not share a defense agreement with the other party in this Agreement. [i]Clause 2.[/i] For the purpose of fulfilling Article VI; Clause 1, the parties agree to cooperate on matters of intelligence and defense. [b]Article VII. Termination[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] Should either party wish to remove themselves from this agreement, they must provide notice in private of their intent to withdrawal. Once a 2 week period (OOC: 48 hours RL) has elapsed all Articles of this treaty will be considered null with the exception being Article II. Article II may only be rendered null at the discretion of the Sicilian League or its inheritor. [b]SIGNED FOR THE SICILIAN LEAGUE [/b] [i]Jean D'Aosta[/i] JEAN D'AOSTA- STEWARD OF THE SICILIAN LEAGUE [b]SIGNED FOR THE DUCHY OF LIGURIA[/b] [i]Benito Abate[/i] BENITO ABATE- DUKE OF THE DUCHY OF LIGURIA[/quote]

A team from the Sicilian Directorate for Foreign Affairs is prepared to join the representatives of the Arctican Human Rights Federation in conducting a transparent investigation and analysis of equality and civil liberties in Girltopia.

[quote name='Sargun' date='07 July 2010 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1278524920' post='2362542'] And both of those questions were answered. [/quote] If the questions had been answered satisfactorily I think everyone would have moved on already. Given that we're still talking about this, better explanation is required.

[b]Ajaccio, Corsican Archonate, Sicilian League[/b] [i]In a press room on the 23rd floor of AI Tower 3, a number of men and women stand gathered behind a bank of microphones. Behind them is a large white backdrop emblazoned with a handful of corporate logos; a number of journalists, reporters, photographers and cameramen sit in the dozen or so rows of chairs that fill the room. A short, heavy man dressed in a blue suit steps to the podium and signals for everyone's attention.[/i] "Excuse me everyone, can I have your attention please, we're going to start now. Thank you all for coming out, my name is Patricio Emmanuele, Vice President of Community Affairs for Banco di Sicilia. Im proud to introduce you to Enzo Bearzot, President of the new Sicilian Football Federation." A tall, thin old man steps up to the podium, he speaks in a raspy voice. "With Sicily now competing on an International level of footballing, it is important for the country that a domestic football league is created to give our national team a way to stay fit and hone their skills. The Sicilian Football Federation will operate as an umbrella organization for the various amateur and developmental leagues that have been operating in various parts of the country. The Sicilian Football Federation's crown jewel will be Island League of professional football clubs scattered across Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily and Malta. The season will start in two months with eight teams, with an additional four teams to be added before the start of the next season. I would also like to announce that the SFF is currently in talks with the NPR, Alvonian and Ligurian Governments about expanding SFF teams into their countries. Depending on how talks go, and depending on the state of the Peninsular market for football, we may see the creation of a Peninsular League to act in companion with the Island League in the next 2-3 years. I would like to thank AI Corp., Banco di Sicilia, Del Piero Development and our consortium of other sponsors for providing the financial backing to the SFF for our first five seasons. At this time I would like to turn the podium over to Roberto Buffat to go over the details of the Island League." "Thank you Enzo. As has been said, the Island League consists of eight teams. While names and rosters of these teams will be announced in a few weeks by the club owners I can tell you the locations of the teams. Ajaccio will be home to two teams, Syracuse will be home to one team, Malta will be home to one team, Messina will be home to one team, Sassari will be home to one team, and Cagliari will be home to one team. The first season will consist of 22 games, all of which will be televised by AI Television. Again, I thank you all for coming. Further information about the League will be announced shortly."

The Sicilian National Football Administration will be sending a delegation for permanent residence at the AFIS Headquarters in Syracuse.

Statement from the Sicilian League We duly note the determination of the Queendom of Girltopia to cease economic interaction with Vietnam. We wish to echo the statements of the Slavorussian Ministry of International Derp Affairs, we see this as no cause for threats by Vietnam or anyone else for that matter. -Franck Ribery Junior Assistant to the Junior Undersecretary for Far-Abroad Relations, with a primary responsibility for cultural interaction.

Throw firecrackers in a pan to make them think theyre under fire if your too lazy to actually shoot them!

[quote][u][b]Kingdom of Cochin- Sicilian League Comprehensive Agreement[/b][/u] [b]Article I. Statement of Terms[/b] This Comprehensive Agreement (CA) will define and formalize the economic, diplomatic, and cultural relationship between the parties, as well as touching upon Other Topics. By agreeing to this CA the parties agree to abide by its terms and agree to refrain from actions that undermine this CA or the spirit of trust, cooperation, and friendship that have led to the creation of this CA. [b]Article II. Economic Agreements[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to refrain from enacting or supporting any policy that will inhibit the free flow of goods and services between the parties [i]Clause 2.[/i] The parties agree to refrain from placing tariffs or other duties or quotas on the goods and services of the other party[i]Clause 3.[/i] The parties agree to refrain from enacting policies which will inhibit the natural expansion of corporations headquartered in the other party in the markets of the party in question. [b]Article III.[/b] Diplomatic Agreements [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to maintain formal ambassador level contact. [b]Article IV.[/b] Cultural Agreements [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to enact policies easing travel between their nations with the interest of improving tourism. [b]Article V.[/b] Other Agreements [i]Clause 1.[/i] The parties agree to an exchange of military units with the purpose of improving cooperation between their respective militaries. The Sicilian League will be sending the 3rd Regiment of Army North for training in the Kingdom of Cochin, the Kingdom of Cochin will be sending the XX Brigade Combat Team/Mechanized Division for training in the Sicilian League. Both units will remain under the control of their home government and will not engage in combat duty for their host nation. [b]Article VI. Termination.[/b] [i]Clause 1.[/i] In the event either party wishes to remove themselves and thus terminate this CA, they must inform their counterpart in private 1 week (OOC: 2 days RL) before they will be free of the stipulations of this agreement. [b]SIGNED FOR THE SICILIAN LEAGUE[/b] [i]Jean D'Aosta[/i] JEAN D'AOSTA- STEWARD OF THE SICILIAN LEAGUE [b]SIGNED FOR THE KINGDOM OF COCHIN[/b] [i]His Highness Kerala Varma[/i] HIS HIGNESS KERALA VARMA, THE KING OF COCHIN [/quote]

[b]SDDD Design and Planning Bureau, Area 4, Sicily[/b] Silvio Guercomo was the new head of the SDDD, the Governments arms design and development agency. While in the past the Government had largely relied on domestic arms manufacturers like Vulcan Industries, AI Defense Services and Montefiorri for weapons development and research, in the post-crisis world the Steward had felt it was necessary for the government to play a greater role in shaping the development process. Although he was still moving in to his new office in the Sicilian Highlands, the SDDD already had directives from the Steward for the development of a number of new weapons systems. He looked at the proposal summaries scattered on his desk: P-ToN: A request for a brand new ballistic missile submarine Star Strike: A request for a missile capable of destroying satellites in LEO and MEO Jupiter: A new Sub-Launched Ballistic Missile with an accompanying request for an MIRV system capable of carrying up to 6 payloads and a nuclear warhead to fit it Kraken: An investigation into a Buoyancy Disrupting Anti-Ship Torpedo (BuDAShTo) Belonidae: A new supercavitating torpedo system. EDIT: This is all classified btw.

CLASSIFIED- BY ORDER OF THE STEWARD- CLASSIFIED Title: Project Kraken Description: Investigation of Alternate Anti-ship weapons systems With continued advancements in ship-borne armor and the proliferation of CIWS and anti-missile point defense systems on foreign naval assets, it is imperative that steps be taken to ensure the downsized Sicilian Navy is still capable of acting as the nation's first line of defense against foreign invasion. As the proliferation of CIWS has increased the ability of a ship to fend off aerial and missile borne threats, many naval military developments have been focused on either improved ECM systems for missiles to evade CIWS defenses or ways to deliver so many munitions that CIWS are not able to stop all of the projectiles. Rather than attempting to outdo technologically superior nations in areas where they have invested a great deal of time and effort, it is important to focus our resources on exploiting the weaknesses of foreign Navy development. As it stands, defenses against torpedoes has not seen any significant advancements in the past 80 years and were rendered obsolete long ago. Torpedo defense is now taken up by fleet based escort action against submarines, with the hope that the submarine can be destroyed or chased off before being able to fire their torpedoes. The only defense against modern torpedoes is the use of advanced alloys and composites in shipbuilding, to counter this the Sicilian Defense Design Directorate is tasked with the following: Developing a torpedo with a greater chance of penetrating or damaging advanced alloy hulls; developing a submarine launched weapon capable of sinking or incapacitating a ship without having to work through the advanced alloy hull.

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='06 July 2010 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1278442584' post='2361301'] Yeah, so can't I use that to my benefit as part of a SAM system for use against grouped CMs or bombers? EDIT: OR Nukes? For some hot nuke-on-nuke action? [/quote] That just means you can use them as anti-missile weapons without worrying about giving all your people cancer

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='06 July 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1278440572' post='2361277'] While I trust in your greater wisdom in regards to such things compared to me, if these things were the double edged swords you say they are, why did the US station the Spartan? Also, I recall reading somewhere that the Genie, an air-to-air 'street sweeper' against bomber masses detonated and caused no harm to unprotected personnel on the ground in a test. [/quote] In re; the genie, radiation from the genie test blast never reached the ground in any noticeable amount.

[quote name='BaronUberstein' date='06 July 2010 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1278442218' post='2361296'] Don't forget to wire car batteries under the lawn chairs, just in case they sit down! [/quote] If its cold, spray water on the stairs leading to your base, they wont be able to get in the door!

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='06 July 2010 - 01:47 PM' timestamp='1278438427' post='2361240'] Please continue to discuss within a no-discussion area. Also, since no one has responded in the Technology Thread, what is this community's stance on neutron flux missiles like the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIM-49_Spartan"]Spartan[/url] or the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIR-2_Genie"]Genie[/url]? [/quote] Since they were used and tested in RL you can certainly use them yourself I would think. The only issue I would see is that it would probably be counted under your nuke cap (which is stupid for tactical nuclear weapons imo) which has always deterred people from developing weapons like the Spartan or the Davy Crockett in CNRP.

Statement from the Director of Foreign Affairs for the Sicilian League We welcome the growth of democratic and free practices in the new Alvonian State. We look forward to working with whichever non-fascist party receives the support of the Alvonian people. -Hossein Al-Hussein

Seeing as people are required to RP the development and placement of weapons stockpiles for use in the event of a guerilla war, I disagree that people have never been required to RP anything more than general military movements. No one is asking you to RP the specific locations of all your missile batteries, how many missiles are in each battery, and what emplacements in AI each specific battery is targeting. Were you firing a couple dozen missiles at the AI then I dont think anyone would have any problems. However, since you are trying to replicate a China-Taiwan situation in terms of the number of missiles being fired there needs to be some sort of RP showing that you are building up for such an attack. This is more than just placing some missiles on the border of a nation you signed an armistice with, this is placing all your missiles on the border with AI, and not something that can just be left to assumption. All that was required was a handful of sentences, its hardly an onerous burden on the RP. In regards to surpluses, yes it is reasonable to assume that you have surpluses of your weapons, but thats only if you are firing a handful of missiles. Just like it is not safe to assume you have 1300 missiles pointed at one country with no RP about it, it is not safe to assume you have a couple hundred extra missiles sitting around close by to be used in a second volley after you have fired 1300 missiles at someone. The scale of your missile attack requires more background RP than has been made; its not something that can be assumed like smaller preparations.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='06 July 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1278391739' post='2360813'] Scottsman, I get what you're saying, but I also RP based on what I call a "reasonable state of assumption" meaning that if most nations of the world can and do have it, unless stated otherwise, most nations will. For example, I don't force people to RP coastal patrols to stop drug smugglers and would assume they're there and that they have to be gotten past via RP because I can think of very few actual nations that do not have some form of coast guard. Even most third world nations have cost guards. The only exceptions I can really think of are Somalia for example.. where the smugglers ARE the coast guard, LOL. I consider it part of the domestic police force. If we're going to start forcing people to RP police.. I'm going to have to re-evaluate my commitment to CNRP, lol. [/quote] And dont get me wrong, I entirely agree with you. I like to believe that many things in RP can be done with common sense and that we can assume that all countries have customs police, flight itineraries, border patrol etc unless they say otherwise. If someone starts to say that, no your spy operation fails because I have CCTV cameras on every street corner (abnormal in RL) and this is the first time this has come up in RP, then thats ridiculous and they need to go back and try harder. I agree, if I have to start detailing out every small aspect of the goings on in my nation, Ill be right behind you in heading towards the exit.

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='05 July 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1278341487' post='2360254'] I agree with you on this, however, what about those people that make up security measures on the spot? Many people do not detail down to the level that you suggest people use spy attacks for, although it would be interesting if people did start doing this. @Mael: SMH could have gone with using a SDI roll to hit you with the nukes. [/quote] My solution to people making of counter-spy defences is my same reaction to making up things in the middle of a war, either show me where you created this thing, or go back to the drawing board and throw your shens in the garbage where they belong. I mean really, if they are making things up on the spot that they reasonably should have RPed beforehand (obviously people cant RP every detail for things they probably are not experts in) then just dont recognize it and move on.

[quote name='Triyun' date='05 July 2010 - 11:32 AM' timestamp='1278343940' post='2360273'] Keshav with warships alone, if I was using roughly modern day equivalents which I am using slightly more advanced ships. Arleigh burke has 90 missile cells, times seven that is 630. A ticonderoga cruiser has 122 cells times by 976. Iowa refit battleships which are cold war tech adds 32 times 8 is 252. That almost gets you to 1700 alone right there. I'm using battleships designed more recently and more equipped with missiles, and larger framed destroyers, plus other ships. Than you take into account land based missiles, the 80 airbased ones, and the China number, and you see even if my land based missiles are far below that I can easily get to 1700 launchers. Edit: As you can see to answer Voodoo's question, the Navy pretty much takes care of a huge portion of moving missiles into position. [/quote] That statistic is misleading triyun, yes an Arleigh Burke destroyer has 90 VLS tubes, but only a fraction of those are fitted to fire land-attack weapons. Those 90 VLS also house the arleigh-burke's SAM, AShM, Aegis/Anti-Ballistic Missile, and its ASROC weapons systems in addition to its land-attack missile systems. The same holds true for the Ticonderoga cruiser, its VLS not only contains its tomahawks, but also its Sea Sparrows, ASROCs and RIMs. Only a fraction of the VLS on a RL naval vessel would be loaded for ground attack missions. You can get to 1700 naval based launchers, but unless you have outfitted all of your vessels to carry only land-attack ordinance in their VLS then you are not going to get to 1700 land-attack cruise missiles. As I have already said with the land-based missiles/China number, China placed those 1300 missiles across from Taiwan over a span of decades. Could China launch 1300 missiles en masse at Taiwan? Yes. Could (with a effective range of 400km or less) China launch 1300 missiles en masse against Mongolia or Russia? No, not without noticeably moving them all first. As I said earlier, if you had taken the time to RP that you were moving missiles and such to a place where they were within range of targets in AI, then I would not be taking part in this discussion. After spending some time earlier going through your posts since the 'armistice' between USC and AI, I have not been able to find any evidence of the USC military moving missiles in preparation for a barrage that large. I leave things open to the fact that I may have missed that post, if thats the case, I will gladly retract my arguements and be on my merry way if you can point that post out to me. As Voodoo said, the issue is not the 1300 missiles for me. If, like the PRC has done over the past 20ish years with Taiwan, the USC had built up or moved 1300 missiles into position across from the AI border, then I would have no objection to the number of missiles the USC is firing.

[quote name='iamthey' date='04 July 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1278273078' post='2359604'] Here is the issue with this entire thing. The two combatants in this case are fighting under irregular rules, and with irregular standards, both of which only exist because the two of them have mutually agreed to them. Keshav has agreed to continue the war, they have both decided to use IG modifiers, and now we are dealing with the issue of keshav being committed to really just utterly ridiculous caps, while triyun is trying to fight a normal CNRP war. The problem is not that Triyun fired 1300 missiles, at the end of the day it really makes very little difference if it was 500 or 800 or even 3000, no one here really has any objective idea of how much or how little damage any of those options would do, and no one is going to RP at a level of detail which would make any difference relevant. The issue is that keshav cannot respond in kind as he only has 50 missiles of his own. And if Triyun is firing 26 times more missiles than Keshav then keshav will always have a disadvantage and neither of them can deny that. As I see it, there are two options. Either A we just $%&@ the RP and do essentially a written mock IG war, which is essentially just destroying the entire point of this forum. Basically it would be taking CN war, which is hardly something that catches anyone's interest at the level of its content, and bringing it over to RP. Personally I find this idea appalling, and in all honesty I wouldn't be reading any of it. The alternative is B put keshav on even footing as far as troop levels go and just scrap all of the caps for this war. Anything else is going to be a mess, and there is just going to produce even more disputes as we will always be dealing with incomplete and ad hoc rules that are being conjured into existence at one moment and dispelled at another. Beyond that the issue is we are being asked to resolve issues in this war, and there are no existing rules to apply. You all are essentially fighting a war outside of the normal CNRP procedure, so how are we supposed to make fair rulings when you two are basically making it up as you go along? I can't make a ruling based on two different sets of rules, and other than fundamentally changing the way this conflict is being fought, I can't really think of anything other than to retcon this entire war, or to purge keshav, neither of which I think is really a viable or fair option. [/quote] Another possibility IAT is to have Triyun and Keshav agree to a set of uniform rules and caps for fighting this war. Ultimately both RPers are using different RP styles which obviously cannot go head-to-head in any viable manner. Rather than forcing either Triyun or Keshav to RP according to the other persons rules and standards, I think it would be in the best interest of fairness to have both of them alter their style so that they can be on an even footing, without sacrificing the RP for an IG text war and still allowing Keshav and Triyun to RP with some emphasis on the style they prefer to use in CNRP. While I would initially be partial to just eliminating Keshav's caps, I dont think that is fair to Keshav because Keshav prefers to RP with a strict adherence to IG limits and information. Making Keshav RP in the same style as Triyun would be just as unfair to Keshav as forcing Triyun to RP an IG-style war. Im sure there must be some room for Triyun and Keshav to compromise on this so that they both can RP this war on a regular, even footing in regards to the rules. Have the two of them sit down (someone else can be an agreed upon moderator if need be) and come up with a set of rules that are acceptable to both of them, have the GM's read the list of rules over and agree to them, and then post them up in the new war thread. I dont think it is too much to ask to have both Triyun and Keshav give a little ground in terms of RP style to find a middle course that could end up avoiding the dillemma you posed IAT.

[quote name='Triyun' date='03 July 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1278212111' post='2359210'] Edit: Also in regards to stockpiling missiles, China could launch those at Mongolia if they had the targets pin pointed provided Mongolia was in range of those missiles. Missiles fly where you tell them too. The issue would be having a battle plan against Mongolia. In the case of the Articuno Islands, ever since I signed the armistice my leaders have very clearly in every instance indicated they wanted to continue the war. To assume they did not have target lists being drawn up even as I was stockpiling ammo and fuel for an assault and moving more troops into position is ignorant. [/quote] Indeed, China would have to deploy those missiles into positions where their targets were in range of their missiles (about 400 KM for their newest type). Missiles do fly where you tell them to, but you have to launch them from close enough in order for them to get where they want to go. In China's case, the 1300 missiles they have pointed at Taiwan would all have to be moved in order to be launched effectively at Mongolia. In your case, my apologies if I am not familiar with all the doings of your government and military, I do not read all of everyone's threads, just as Im sure you dont read all of my threads, theres no need to get hostile over it. As I said, if you have RPed placing those missiles in preparation for an assault on AI then I have no problem, in fact, I would love to read it if you could link me to it.