AlmightyGrub

If I bold your whole post will that help me understand? I clearly have no idea how to construct a sentence in the face of overwhelming analysis, so just take it that I meant what I said. If it confuses you, interpret it however you feel the happiest, I actually don't care.

I am going to go out on a limb and say this - For those of you who will respond with announcements of spectacular foresight, incredible graphic sensibilities or overly astute political commentary, save it. The reasons for this cancellation are not the subject of public discussion, not for the amusement or benefit of anyone and are no cause for celebrations, despite your view point or agenda. But I already did. Context is a wonderful thing. The Decree has wonderful paragraphs that arrange the concepts into little bite sized pieces that allow you to follow along more easily. Read the paragraph, in context, then leave me alone. If I wanted to discuss why things happen, I would have indicated it was open for discussion. As it stands now, you are entitled to post whatever it is you wish to by way of comment or otherwise, I have stated I will not discuss it, so you can expect that to remain constant.

Follow your logic right around in a circle and eventually it will bite your $@!. Read the OP correctly, in context, and all will be much clearer for you.

Imperial Decree The Emperor of the New Polar Order advises that 72 hours ago private communications were made with the New Pacific Order declaring our intention to cancel our Mutual Defense Treaty (MDoAP) with them. As the cancellation period has now passed the treaty between the New Polar Order and the New Pacific Order is hereby terminated. For those of you who will respond with announcements of spectacular foresight, incredible graphic sensibilities or overly astute political commentary, save it. The reasons for this cancellation are not the subject of public discussion, not for the amusement or benefit of anyone and are no cause for celebrations, despite your view point or agenda. I wish the Emperor of the New Pacific Order and indeed Pacifica's Body Republic good luck at this time, I know your situation is difficult and somewhat unique and that this cancellation brings no joy to you. Rest assured, it brings no joy to me either. o/ Polaris.

Polaris is standing by to accept the return of all tech taken from us last war. We in turn can then forward it down the line to whoever we took it off .... please make your claims in writing

The NPO is whatever it is, not my concern right now. White peace is not necessarily smart, I am not for one minute suggesting that these terms are good or bad. I actually care because I am allied to Valhalla and the welfare of my allies is important to me. I know what Valhalla did, I was there, I saw the terms they offered, I saw the refusal and I saw the later offers. There is no alliance more important to me in CN than the STA, Valhalla did the wrong thing to them last war. The facts are a lot more simple than Valhalla did XYZ, they were not alone. Their power came from a treaty that was comprised by a large chunk of Karma's NS. Just because they changed their uniforms at the last minute, are they any less culpable for what occurred, by the standards being offered today? The answer is NO, but because Polaris has moved on their actions are suddenly all OK, but because Tyga hasn't moved on Valhalla are scum? Seriously, if you want to punish people for their past sins, right now the only bad $@! alliance on the planet that has been punished fairly is... Polaris. Or, you can keep this war within the context that it is, fight your battles based on the current disputes and move past the apparent hypocrisy. I am much happier to accept the later version of events. I have no desire to see alliances like Gramlins or FOK (or even MCXA for that matter, who I don't really hate because their scum leaders are now in a different alliance) punished or massive tech extorted from them, so why does everyone feel the need to get anything other than a good war from this. The dissolution of the Continuum and One Vision will be a significant victory. None of these alliance singly can do SFA about anything without resort to each other. As for you Chron, your perception of the CN world is just as valid as anyone's right now. If you believe the NPO is a shell, then where is the threat? The reality is you believe they will always be a threat and so therefore you must proactively take action. That's fine, it is what theh NPO did time and time again, including Polaris, but you can not have it both ways. They are either a shell to be mocked or a threat to be controlled... make up your minds.

The folks that demanded the reps from Polaris did so to attempt to cripple us forever, and most of them are fighting on Karma's side. The ignorance of singling out Valhalla from all the crap that went on last war as the object of your derision is pathetic and extremely amusing to me. I know Tyga has an axe to grind, Valhalla were his antagonists, but mine are largely sitting laughing their asses off wearing the white hats this time. I think anyone who actually appreciates this understands why Karma can not and will not apply stupidly harsh terms on anyone. Smashing Valhalla's face in is simple now, you can do it whenever you want to. Reps are about establishing power, there is no need to do so here. When you get to the main event, well there is a kettle of fish entirely different, but just remember, that up until very recently a large chunk of the sanctioned alliances in Karma were BFF with Pacifica, the same alliances that rode with them, followed their lead and did plenty of damages in their wake, in fact the same alliances that extorted 100K in tech from my alliance at the point of a gun, after they attacked me. I have forgiven all of them, except MCXA who are just plain opportunist, self serving trash, because I know we did plenty to provoke it. Hey, we have even forgiven the NPO for creating the mess in the first place over internal Order issues. We have taken responsibility for our actions, but I dont see a whole lot of people taking responsibility for theirs, especially on Karma's side. The whole lot of you are just plain pathetic, I do not support your actions, I do not condone them and I certainly will not celebrate this war any time soon. Kill the NPO, do whatever it is you set out to do, but do not ever pretend this is about the moral high ground, do not pretend this is great justice or anything other than great revenge for every slight on your alliance, every slight on your previous alliance or your previous nation. BTW, I have no issues with revenge, just be honest about it. As for excessive reps, it didn't hurt Polaris other than now we are tech light, be careful how much camaraderie you focus into you defeated foes. If you realize nothing at all from this conflict, realize that beating people's faces in only creates a resolve and that some people have a determination that exceeds your own. The NPO is certainly well established in this category, they didn't get to #1 by luck, they didn't get to #1 again by luck and they wont get there yet again by luck. Think about what you are trying to achieve and achieve it and stop pretending to be something you are not. And stop thinking you will break the will of the New Pacific Order with your nonsense.

Yes they will be back, just like Polaris was back. Did we change? I think so, don't you FF. It may well be prudent to at least give Valhalla chance to change before asserting they can not. The beauty of the situation is if they don't, you can roll all over again. Karma holds the upper hand right now and simple terms will ensure they will hold it for a while to come. Blind as bats some of you.

I am sure he is entitled to believe. So do you think MCXA feels secure now? Is it time?

I hadn't heard of the plan, but now I have I am excited Seriously excited that the world can plunge o the depths of outright stupidity it has.

Whether you like it or not the New Polar Order does not support this war, therefore we choose no side. We refuse to wear your silly hat, we will not wave your silly flag and in general, your agendas remain your own. Any perception that we have joined your side is seriously misplaced. Doesn't mean we don't like you, doesn't mean we don't agree with some of what is happening but conversely it doesn't mean I support alliances getting the life bled out of them clinically (and by clinically I mean surgery as performed by a psychopath who has his victim strapped to the operating table, slowly removing the victims skin in order to make a pretty hat) Please try not the mention us again thanks... unless I do something.

I believe my friend that it is your meter that needs re-calibration.

Yes Fallen, it is time for me to admit it... you are an idiot.

It would be extremely impractical if it did reform wouldn't it, especially seeing how many of the NAAC members are now loyal and committed GR members, and indeed the NpO contains a few old NAACers as well I think. To reform the NAAC several alliances would be hurt and for what? The community exists, just ina different form without all the baggage. Leave it alone. Also for the record, the NAAC disbanded long before we ever sought terms from Sponge, Ivan or otherwise. We left the game with intent and I see no reason to change anything. IF we had wanted to stay, we would have.

I remember when rock was young, me and .... I remember most things that I need to remember and most of you would do well to remember that I do.

I am amused and nothing more. MCXA is in a world of hurt, with or without punitive terms. They have no allies left to support them and they have sealed their own fate to some extent. Let them go without further mockery, they deserve a chance to show what they can do under a little bit of pressure before everyone slips the boot in again. As for TSO, they are TOP's issue. If they are happy to be associated with them, thats their call. At least Karma has shown itself to be fair (overly fair by some opinion) in this case, lets see what happens as we get closer to the core of the Karma crusade.

If SCM demands anything from you (which I highly doubt) tell me and I will pay it for you personally. Now get back to fighting or something.

SCM is a raving lunatic, it is true. He "believes" in things and "reacts" according to what he "believes" - the horror. Having fought along side him in GW3 (at least not only) and having destroyed him personally in the great FIST debacle, I know he has a good heart and a great sense of purpose, still stark raving mad of course. I would suggest the end of the e-lawyering era is already past. It is over. People are driven by their passions for justice and their desire to help friends in conflicts. It might shock you that people have friends they do not hold treaties with... Whether Karma is right or wrong or this DoW is right or wrong will be assessed in the cool light of the post war analysis. How history records it is ultimately what matters. NEW are doing just fine and if SCM wants to wade into their nuclear stockpile, he should be accommodated. When it is over, DF and NEW can be best of friends, for now they fight. Knowing SCM he would much rather be fighting versus the evil Orders than fighting an alliance that is just doing their job, but his friends have asked for help and so he has. It is his decision and he will live and die by it, let history be the judge. I personally think that Karma is doing just fine without random people doing random things, but you can not fault someone for helping out a friend, not now, not ever.

Well done to all parties. A fair outcome indeed

You know Random, I agree with your first assertion but you are allowing your bitterness to filter what what I am saying. I know Polaris is different in many respects to many other alliances. I am proud of it, it was a lot of hard work by lots of people to get it to that point. The people within Polaris are a strange mix of personalities, political views, ages, sexes (male, female and unknown at the very least) and aggression levels BUT, apart from few individuals, the people in my alliance are much the same as you, much the same as Pacifica and much the same as everyone else. It is the few individuals you have issue with Random, you know who they are, you rode with them for a long time, you know. It is not Pacifica that is at fault here, if your view is to be accepted, but rather the select few who control every aspect of that alliance. The rank and file are no different to the rank and file of any other alliance (there are exceptions to the rule, I will accept that there are alliances full of strange people) Polaris has no intention of interference, but I will stand here and hold you to your own standards, standards that I am prepared to hold myself to. I have not supported this war because I do not like the boil-over, out of control nature of the war, I do not like a lot of the people driving the war being recent refugees from Pacifica's mantle of power, and honestly I think you are all mad if you think that kicking the crap out of Pacifica is going to change anything. There are plenty of people waiting in your team to seize control and I can forsee easily that their rule will be no less pleasant for significant portions of the community. Let it all out Random, let the hate consume you, become the DarkSide's Sith Lord you are destined to be... but spare me the crap because I know you are a nice guy If those are the terms, they seem not unlike the unfair terms that you were subjected to..... by a party that wasn't involved in the war? I know what needs to happen to the NPO, so do you, so why saddle the whole alliance with servitude to get the job done when this could be a simple exercise.... it can and you know it. Angry Random much. You and I are not part of Karma, why? I am sure you have a reason as much as I do. Your opinion means a lot to a lot of people, use it wisely please. Also Hello.

If honesty was a characteristic that would be rewarded on Bob I am sure quite a few people could answer that. In your mad haste to scramble to the public stoning of the NPO you seem to have overlooked some rather obvious facts. Karma my fat Aunty. HellAngel speaks of Gramlins style justice and if Gramlins=Karma, I would be far more comfortable, because I trust them to at least be responsible. Some of the others among you, not so much. Back stabbing scum calling other people cowards doesn't sit well with me. Most of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves and judge yourself by the very standards you seek to set. Margrave, tactically you may well be right. Crushing the NPO makes perfect sense, beat them within an inch of their life, give them terms that beat the ones Polaris received, berate them, mock them, ridicule them... then I and many others will be coming for you, because you will be what you detested. Kicking any alliance repeatedly in the head is not good form and never will be. The thing that defines polite and honorable society (that which Karma preaches by their default official position) is how we treat everyone, not just those who it is convenient to do so. Punishment, revenge, judgment, it all seems to make so much sense. I can tell you I didn't need a beating to learn a lesson and I certainly did not need to fund the tech spent in this war either. So now will the NPO fund the next war against whoever you cut from the herd next? People have asked me repeatedly why I do not support Karma's cause, you need look no further than Margrave as a shining example of why. Having lived through the beating Polaris received, the crippling reps and the removal of well-loved and long serving members of our alliance, I was reminded of what I do not want to happen to others ever again. The funny thing is I didn't need the lesson, I was in an alliance that disbanded rather than accept the Hegemony and their stupid terms. Until Karma, as a whole, shows they intend to treat their prey with fairness and real justice then I will continue not to support the rubbish that gets posted here. Whilst I have the greatest respect for both LiquidMercury and Archon, I am genuinely afraid that Pandora is out of the box and that not even their responsibility and good sense will control people seeking revenge for every slight over the past 3 years. I am encouraged by the terms issued and accepted so far, but we all know that Old Guard were largely protected by their Bloc mates on Karma's side. Lets see what happens when Valhalla, TPF, IRON and the NPO are offered terms. That is the chance to show I was wrong and I will gladly admit it if and when I am. Here is AlmightyGrub's pro-tip. Let bygones be truly bygones when this war is over. Wipe the slate clean and start again, you will find it as refreshing as I did. It is funny when you talk to the other side, after the dust has settled, you find that most of the time you aren't really all that different. If it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees, perhaps not forcing people to live on their knees will breed a different world?

You really should just let this whole thing sink to the bottom now, I (and Random et al) made my feelings known pages ago, I doubt anyone else's feeling re " Polaris '' really matter anymore... You failed us, you have apologized several times, and to be honest nothing can fix it until the right chance comes along. Just be careful not to get too emboldened in or by the current war, there are still a lot of ways this mess can backfire on you.

Which part of it baffles you? You, at least as much as anyone else can understand the feeling when the whole world turns on you. That sinking moment when you look around and there is just you and a handful of really good friends, totally outnumbered, totally out gunned and totally overwhelmed by hate and blood lust. Did NV, Genesis, GR, CCC, OcUK etc deserve to be beaten back to primeval sludge for being friends with Polaris? Did STA honestly deserve the relentless smashing and crippling terms they received? Did Polaris, honestly? I know the answers and therefore I view this situation, objectively, with no resort to the past and the alleged crimes, half of which are crapola. I do not like this war, I do not like the world gang banging anyone and I do not like the venom spewing out of the mouth of many of the Karma alliances, most of who wouldn't have the guts to face any opponent head on let alone the NPO. I resent the people who betrayed their friends for months and months, shaking hands in public whilst stabbing their mate in the back. I resent the secret meetings, the leaked logs and all the drama... all of which was denied, pushed aside or covered up with a removal or two. Karma is a !@#$%*, and just as it has rolled over the NPO, so expect the treachery of those who claim the moral high ground in this matter, whilst being scumbag traitors in reality, to be repaid at some stage. Let me say, I have a great deal of respect for MK and Archon and indeed, Gramlins and LM in this matter. IF left to them, I am sure I would be more comfortable with this action, but that is not what I see. There are deals in place, secret handshakes, public statements of justice and fairness for all, whilst the reality will eventually show that most of you are just opportunists who will take whatever they can get when you think it is safe to get it. Two legs good, four legs bad... time will tell, but from where I sit in this matter, that's how I see it. Prove me wrong and I will be happy to be wrong.

I will DoW on Polaris immediately...because you know you want me to, those imperialist scum shall feel my wrath. Also, this is precisely why we don't like this war at all. Friends fighting each other is complete rubbish and something I do not want to be a part of. Even friends of friends offends me... but friends of friends of friends is getting far enough away I guess

Duplicate post from the ML DoW thread for clarity - And so the Emperor returns to find us at war. 1. ML, I don't have an agenda against you, do not make one. If you want to attack us that is fine, I completely understand your options and obligations. Just ensure you allow us to exit this war as quickly as we entered. 2. DOOM, you can not dodge and weave who returns fire by e-lawyering what we can and can not do. 3. KARMA, I still do not support your side in any way shape or form. 4. Proko declared war in my absence, based on what he believed were good and valid orders. We are therefore at war, whether I would have done so had I been present or not. 5. Be clear, I have no interest in doing anything other than assisting STA and NSO at this stage and if our job is done after one round of wars, expect us to quietly leave the said conflict. If you continue with the "bandwagonner excuse to get into the war'' line, I will not be impressed. I have a number of points of entry into this war, if I want to be a part of it, and to date I do not want to do so. Both sides are doing just fine on their own. 6. If you want to e-lawyer stuff, don't bother with me in your calculations. I don't care what you think about our reasons, we have a debt to pay to our friends and so we shall, very symbolically, do so. Forget all the arguments over what treaty chains with which and all that crap, your obsession with purpose and justification befuddles me. The NSO/STA front got a new player in DOOM, Proko thought that we needed to assist to show we cared and so we declared on them. We have shown we care, so we can leave whenever you wish. Your surrender to their generous terms will be sufficient reason for us to end the war right now. 7. To my friends and comrades on both sides of this shooting match, my position has not changed and it is unlikely to do so. I made our position clear from the outset and I am offended that people are now issuing threats to our alliance based on what I clearly stated would be our direction. Don't push me into a corner that I have no desire being in or fighting from. Further inquiries via private means thanks, no one else needs to know or care about the facts or what we are even discussing. I would contact you more directly, but I have no idea who you even are wink.gif. I will continue to be unavailable at traditional times due to commitments (OOC: RL beckons at this time) I will therefore take all correspondence at this time via my usual private channels. If things are urgent, Arctic Penguin is apprised of my wishes and desires in these matters or will defer to my upon return. o/ Polaris.