Seerow

If it's lowering it I fail to see how it's forcing you to increase the reps to pay for their past problems as was claimed earlier in the thread. They're just redirecting the reps you're paying to the people they'd have to pay to eventually anyway, thus neatly tying up the loose end there.

I for one acknowledge Rebel Virginia's right to the name RLMMO, and wish him good luck with getting his ghost problem cleared up shortly.

My dislike for you has nothing to do with MK. Lumping me in as a part of my alliance is ingenious. Also, RV states that I am correct. RV always speaks truth, whereas your word is obviously the one in doubt. That alone is enough to prove that I am correct.

I for one am dissapointed at the quality of the fake logs Sileath posted in the OP. It is clear to me that if his logs had any merit at all he'd all ready be free of war with the Dynamite Pact after posting this topic.

Okay I skipped the last 4 pages of reading, but I think I get the gist of the topic, so here's my take currently: First, on the whole cancellation of the NAP by attacking, while it is a dick move, and while there was another cancellation clause, the wording is "if the treaty is broken it is considered void". To me, a treaty being void implies it never really existed. By breaking the treaty it effectively negated the treaty, such that it does not exist to be considered broken. Second, if TPF is so insistent on not paying PC a dime, but will surrender on any terms that we agree are reasonable. Here's an alternative that I'd consider reasonable: -TPF pays 30k tech to MK. That's 20k for PC, 9k for MK, and 1k for the hassle of having to read through all of this crap -MK redirects the 20k tech being paid to us from Echelon courtesy of allies to PC, to cover their part in this war -TPF, for making us go through the hassle of redirecting this just to make them happy, will take on the terms that they claim are not so harsh. They will destroy all military wonders, and give up the outside aid that we were so generously willing to allow them. Since it's just a pride issue, surely they'd be willing to take on harsher terms to maintain their pride? Edit: To clarify I have no authority to offer these terms as a regular member from MK. This is a public proposal suggested soley by me and may be rejected by my government. It has also come to my attention we are only getting 10k tech from Echelon, which means another 10k would have to be found elsewhere to make this a clean tradeout.

Except in the cases where they carried out PZI where terms were not offered, or where the demands were steep enough to cause the alliances to be disbanded, right? TPF can hold grudges after paying all they want, but they have no reason not to accept the terms.

We aren't responsible for bending over backwards to give TPF what they want. PC has as much right to reparations as anyone else, and TPF has admitted the reps are payable. So long as they are doable I fail to see what the problem is.

I'd really say this is a good reason why NAP's aren't signed anymore, and people tend to go with PIATs and the like so they can have other excuses for canceling them.

It's not extortion. PC has lost what, 60% of their NS this war? They have as much right to reps as any alliance out there, more than many others whom are going to receive more.

Given it's extremely likely you intended to take advantage of the same loophole down the road I don't see it as such a bad thing. You got beat at your own game, deal with it.

I'm sorry, what does anything in my post have to do with math?

First half of the post is pretty useless whining and making fun of motives that may or may not exist. However this.... And so the truth comes out. If the real issue was that you don't want to pay PC (which we had known all along) why was Mhawk in the other thread saying he'd pay 800mil, but not 1.3bil?

Oh noes how dare someone air your dirty laundry publicly while you're trying to act like a victim.

3 cycles bill locked? Dude, I went to war for a year, and was able to get out of bill lock with one wave of aid. Not that it matters since there is no restriction on outside aid to help with rebuilding in these terms.

I am glad that you recognize my greatness. I fully expect a video on YouTube of this flogging as proof of your repetance.

Well if he could make the entire world believe it he may have a point in his arguments.... and now Im going to bed cause it's like 3am

We haven't been quite so successful at taking over Athens as we have been at some other alliances but we're working on it. Though now that GATO has been officially treatied to Athens it might be easier to take over GATO first. Democracy makes it easy. Then we have two entry points into Athens, making it even easier.

You forgot the most important group involved in this discussion: FAIL.

Asking for every member of your alliance to be infallable would be too much, I agree. Asking a military leader to check to see if the person being attacked was an actual member or not however is not asking for much. I am curious as to exactly how low your standards for leadership are that you have someone authorized to declare attacks on a legitimate alliance (FAIL) who doesn't even do basic fact checking before beginning the threats. You can spin it how you like, this reflects poorly on MHA's leadership.

Please explain to me how the terms offered here are draconian when they can be paid easily within 2-3 months just by the few peace mode nations on your front page, let alone any nations that you rebuild (since you have no restrictions at all on outside aid). This "You're as bad as what you're trying to get rid of" spiel got old months ago. It's not any truer now than it was then.

I'm sure your ambassador will be able to provide all relevant pics for you. I assure you your embassy is still open.

So on a related note: MK offered TPF a white peace in their embassy on our forums. For some reason, after weeks of no response to this most generous offer, our government decided that a white peace was not what TPF was looking for, and clearly Mhawk was hoping to have reparations to !@#$%* and moan about to feed his martyrdom. As such we had to withdraw the white peace offer and present what you all see today.

Interesting. Yet the act of 'mercy' in not rolling them while they were politically isolated is in of itself to say that they should not need to pay anything to PC, ever? This is a pretty interesting thought process from TPF. Obviously there were more typos, as Archon presented them while still slightly buzzed from celebrating NPO finally surrendering. Apparently cleaning up the post makes it a completely different set of terms

Okay I could ALMOST see the argument when record setting reps were being set that they were too harsh and deserved to be dropped. But this? This could be paid off easily within a month or two. The only argument against it I've heard is "TPF doesn't owe PC anything. They were merciful when they had PC on the ropes and didn't force them to disband, so we should get a free ride" To be honest, I know almost nothing of the bad blood between TPF and PC except that it exists, but I'm certain theres more to it than TPF lets on, or PC wouldn't have the hard-on for killing them. (The comparison I've gotten from others is TPF:PC::NPO:MK). Please get off your high horses and sit down to negotiate. -You- chose to make this war last as long as it has, since you decided to stick in it until NPO surrendered, that gives you no positioning to baww for lower reps. I know Archon would have been happy to let you guys off a month ago at the time I came back to MK, and almost certainly before that. Man up and take the terms on the table. You have no position from which to argue you don't deserve it. The war is over, you get to pay like everyone else.

I remember checking your charter recently. There's pretty much nothing to stop it. If the Congress, and AC want to make a change, there's nothing really to stop it. Except your judges. Luckily each one of those positions is elected. It wouldn't be hard for the group of them to come together and say "We aren't going to be a democracy anymore. This is now an Oligarchy with us in charge" After that just about all the general membership could do is leave. Wait what? Name any dictatorship on Planet Bob that has failed worse than GATO has in its history. I'm really curious here. In 3 years you have yet to show yourselves as having improved at all. Unless you count withdrawing from politics completely so you'd stop embarrassing yourselves.