WOLF Bloc and Judgement Ressurected

[thaisport]

Why does the whining always happen by those attacked?

Here’s some facts for you and you tell me if it makes sense…

1) WOLF bloc all about CURBSTOMPS

FALSE – I have not seen them curbstomp anyone yet

2) WOLF is about formalizing treaties that are already there

TRUE – I know for a fact most of the treaties were already there before hand, some dating back to round 2 or 3

3) If WOLF bloc isn’t about curbstomp and just a formal name of what is in place, then what’s the problem?

Simple, even more dangerous than a curbstomp is the fact that WOLF provides a “Laboratory Controlled Environment” for their alliances.

4) “Laboratory Controlled Environment?!?” How?

By restricting and controlling how people attack alliances within WOLF, they are effectively forcing anyone who wants to attack a WOLF alliance to play by THEIR RULES. Whether it is called fair or anything else is indifferent.

5) Judgment Resurrected is about breaking up WOLF

TRUE - No member of JR cares whether those respective alliances have treaties with each other, however a formalized Bloc only solidifies power to one side.

6) Does any alliance in JR have treaties with each other?

I cannot speak for all but HARMFUL does NOT have treaties with any of them. When this is over it is assumed people will move their own separate ways. This does not mean friendships haven’t been formed.

7) If this is so, why were they so organized, more than most expected?

Simple, there were enough Anti-Wolf feelings to go around stemming from last round they did something about it.

8) Baggage shouldn’t be carried over from round to round, right?

Correct , and Wolf members are complaining about this but the truth also remains that WOLF has been carried from round to round, hence no new beginning. So if Wolf can be carried from round to round, why can’t grudges? Ideally everyone starts it new, which is why a new round begins every X days but you can’t change people can you?

9) So there have been complaints about history, what’s that about?

Harmful & RE - From the harmful perspective, RE turned on harmful after we canceled all treaties and decided to not use any treaties as a policy a tradition we continue today. When I left the game, RE hit Harmful and this is after rounds of treaties and friendship. Harmful never attacked RE until after that time. Since then RE has been considered a traitor in most of the membership’s eye. Hence the plotting of attacks back and forth all came from the one act of RE turning on harmful way back in the past, yes PAST. I challenge ANYONE to prove this wrong and GO read every single post from the prior rounds for yourself. I have no issues with you Tiberius12 but you turned on harmful. Go back to June 3rd, 2009

Harmful and TPF – Harmful attacked TPF once I believe in round 3 (if not then 4) and it was over a dispute between Burning Glory and I. This left a bad taste in BG’s mouth as TPF was friends with Harmful. Because neither side would concede or back down (myself included) this put a strain in our relations. I have said this in private and will say this in the public now; Burning Glory is a good guy and a pretty good leader. It’s not easy to have a sanction alliance lasting 6 rounds. I do not believe then, nor do I believe now that TPF is an evil alliance. TPF to me has always been about treaties, friendships, and doing their own thing.

Harmful & GDA – Even if GDA is in Wolf, GDA and Harmful still have high respect for each other and have remained what I considered friends even to this day.

10) What does this all boil down to?

Simple… GET OVER IT. Everyone can argue ALL they what but this is nothing more than TE history repeating itself over, and over, and over again. Just different names, faces, and CB but if you actually do your history research and read all the posts from the inception of TE, you will know it is fact.

________________________________________

You asked us to “Do something about it.”

We did.

Now you complain?

You can’t have your cake and eat it too…

________________________________________

Thaisport

Edited August 30, 2009 by thaisport

[HisK Owns You]

Judgement Ressurected lawl....

o/ WOLF

[Sapphiredagger]

I think this is pretty much true.

[Varianz]

Harmful & RE - From the harmful perspective, RE turned on harmful after we canceled all treaties and decided to not use any treaties as a policy a tradition we continue today. When I left the game, RE hit Harmful and this is after rounds of treaties and friendship. Harmful never attacked RE until after that time. Since then RE has been considered a traitor in most of the membership’s eye. Hence the plotting of attacks back and forth all came from the one act of RE turning on harmful way back in the past, yes PAST. I challenge ANYONE to prove this wrong and GO read every single post from the prior rounds for yourself. I have no issues with you Tiberius12 but you turned on harmful. Go back to June 3rd, 2009

I turned my back on Harmful? What??? Let's examine the history, shall we? RE and MHA make buddy-buddy. End of round 3, RE fights in defense of MHA. Beginning of round 4, RE again fights in defense of Harmful. Then, as soon as we've finished fighting to defend you guys, all of the sudden you cancel all relations with us, out of the blue. We went to hell and back to fight for you guys, and then you decide that we should be rewarded for our friendship with a complete cancellation of all relationship with us? You publicly canceled our treaty, without even giving us the courtesy of any advance notice, or indeed, notice at all. You think it didn't sting that after we sacrificed so much for you guys that you cut the relationship with a single post? And don't claim that you kept up a solid friendship with us, we didn't hear from you at all after you pulled the rug out from under us. We visited your forums, hung out in your IRC channel, and we did our best to keep up the relationship, but there was no effort on your side. I didn't turn my back on Harmful. Harmful turned it's back on me.

[sippyjuice]

You guys have always been friends as far as I'm concerned. And as long as I'm the leader GDA, it will stay that way. You guys are one of the TE alliances I would never hit, even if we are on opposite sides right now.

[lonewolfe2015]

This is a very well thought out and objective point of view. My only wish is I could have said this all first

Thai, you're a great guy and that is why when you needed a break I stepped up. The changes that occurred during your absence probably would never have gone any differently as I like to think I lead MHA as you would have wished.

To RE, Thai pretty much sums up my feelings about the attacking us, and the continuing the grudge round after round.

To WOLF, good luck.

[Varianz]

This is a very well thought out and objective point of view. My only wish is I could have said this all first

Thai, you're a great guy and that is why when you needed a break I stepped up. The changes that occurred during your absence probably would never have gone any differently as I like to think I lead MHA as you would have wished.

To RE, Thai pretty much sums up my feelings about the attacking us, and the continuing the grudge round after round.

To WOLF, good luck.

Read my response: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1813143

[thaisport]

I turned my back on Harmful? What??? Let's examine the history, shall we? RE and MHA make buddy-buddy. End of round 3, RE fights in defense of MHA. Beginning of round 4, RE again fights in defense of Harmful. Then, as soon as we've finished fighting to defend you guys, all of the sudden you cancel all relations with us, out of the blue. We went to hell and back to fight for you guys, and then you decide that we should be rewarded for our friendship with a complete cancellation of all relationship with us? You publicly canceled our treaty, without even giving us the courtesy of any advance notice, or indeed, notice at all. You think it didn't sting that after we sacrificed so much for you guys that you cut the relationship with a single post? And don't claim that you kept up a solid friendship with us, we didn't hear from you at all after you pulled the rug out from under us. We visited your forums, hung out in your IRC channel, and we did our best to keep up the relationship, but there was no effort on your side. I didn't turn my back on Harmful. Harmful turned it's back on me.

Oh Tibs...

You still didn't get it do you. Do you know why we canceled all our treaties? Because so many people complained we had too many. So we changed policy and decided to not have treaties, simple as that.

Now if RE was a friend, RE could have supported our change in ideals, not by doing things for harmful but rather leave us to play out our ideals. GDA understood that and hasn't hit Harmful so why did Rome?

There was no effort on our side because we wanted to play solo. A friend would have understood that, especially with the conversations we have had prior in IRC. I have expressed to all our allies at that time before the round 5 that we were going solo. Simple as that...

Harmful didn't turn its back on anyone Tibs. If your friend had a change of ideas and wanted to pursue something new, shouldn't you let them try it out instead of kicking them down? This isn't like we are all becoming drug addicts or anything, it's a game and we wanted to try something new. Other alliances got it, I'm surprised you didn't. And I didn't contact any of them. Also I was gone in round 5 so how could I have made an effort to contact you anyway?

Cheers,

Thaisport

Edited August 30, 2009 by thaisport

[lonewolfe2015]

Oh Tibs...

You still didn't get it do you. Do you know why we canceled all our treaties? Because so many people complained we had too many. So we changed policy and decided to not have treaties, simple as that.

Now if RE was a friend, RE could have supported our change in ideals, not by doing things for harmful but rather leave us to play out our ideals. GDA understood that and hasn't hit Harmful so why did Rome?

There was no effort on our side because we wanted to play solo. A friend would have understood that, especially with the conversations we have had prior in IRC. I have expressed to all our allies at that time before the round 5 that we were going solo. Simple as that...

Harmful didn't turn its back on anyone Tibs. If your friend had a change of ideas and wanted to pursue something new, shouldn't you let them try it out instead of kicking them down? This isn't like we are all becoming drug addicts or anything, it's a game and we wanted to try something new. Other alliances got it, I'm surprised you didn't. And I didn't contact any of them. Also I was gone in round 5 so how could I have made an effort to contact you anyway?

Cheers,

Thaisport

Someone give this guy a beer, I love not having to make these posts. Thai, you tell em.

Tib, if you feel betrayed by us, imagine how much more betrayed we feel when we made no effort to attack you that round considering you friends of Harmful without written documents saying so? Only to have you turn and attack us.

[Varianz]

Double post fails.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Tiberius12

[HisK Owns You]

Hey guys be nice... also hi Tibs I'm on your side

Edited August 30, 2009 by HisK Owns You

[Varianz]

Oh Tibs...

You still didn't get it do you. Do you know why we canceled all our treaties? Because so many people complained we had too many. So we changed policy and decided to not have treaties, simple as that.

Now if RE was a friend, RE could have supported our change in ideals, not by doing things for harmful but rather leave us to play out our ideals. GDA understood that and hasn't hit Harmful so why did Rome?

There was no effort on our side because we wanted to play solo. A friend would have understood that, especially with the conversations we have had prior in IRC. I have expressed to all our allies at that time before the round 5 that we were going solo. Simple as that...

Harmful didn't turn its back on anyone Tibs. If your friend had a change of ideas and wanted to pursue something new, shouldn't you let them try it out instead of kicking them down? This isn't like we are all becoming drug addicts or anything, it's a game and we wanted to try something new. Other alliances got it, I'm surprised you didn't. And I didn't contact any of them. Also I was gone in round 5 so how could I have made an effort to contact you anyway?

Cheers,

Thaisport

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. You expect us to not attack you based on a relationship that you yourself severed? What, were we supposed to hold some sort of eternal NAP? First I'd heard of it. You guys are the ones fighting for a side that claims to want people to fight huge wars as often as possible. So we did. Now you have a problem with it? And was our friendship worth so little to you that negative public opinion was enough for you to sever it? Obviously so. Rome wasn't going to stand still forever. Like I said, we tried to keep the friendship going, but you yourself admit that you had no interest in that. Like I said, shows how much you valued our friendship. We waited until the end of Round 5 before we attacked you; that was over a round after you canceled your relationship with us. I regret waiting that long.

[TheEraser]

thai you make it soo hard for me to troll you

still, i find a way

seriously baggage can and should be carried over round after round, at least until the sides agree that they'd rather break someone else's !@#$ for a change. Lets face it w/o seeds of anger going from round to round what you're left with is the whole attitude of "hur hur we're going to attack you for a week and move on cause we're moral and shiz..." which makes the game stale, boring and predictable. IF baggage wasn't carried from round to round Murder Inc. would till be rolling hot and tonking who we felt like, when we felt like it. I don't complain that you guys formed a coalition to bring us down, at least not anymore, its the way things have to be. Every couple rounds the top dawg has to get knocked down. Actually The fall of MI led to the growth of a lot of alliances, which is a very good thing. But w/o people carrying grudges over the game becomes nothing more than a boring huggle fest.

[Varianz]

Tib, if you feel betrayed by us, imagine how much more betrayed we feel when we made no effort to attack you that round considering you friends of Harmful without written documents saying so? Only to have you turn and attack us.

Harmful didn't attack anyone. Want to know why? Because you didn't have the organization to pull any sort of meaningful war off. It wasn't some special relationship with RE, some sense of nostalgia, that kept you from attacking. It was incompetence, plain and simple.

[XRCatD]

It was incompetence, plain and simple.

It was actually because Harmful does not go around looking for wars.

[thaisport]

thai you make it soo hard for me to troll you

still, i find a way

seriously baggage can and should be carried over round after round, at least until the sides agree that they'd rather break someone else's !@#$ for a change. Lets face it w/o seeds of anger going from round to round what you're left with is the whole attitude of "hur hur we're going to attack you for a week and move on cause we're moral and shiz..." which makes the game stale, boring and predictable. IF baggage wasn't carried from round to round Murder Inc. would till be rolling hot and tonking who we felt like, when we felt like it. I don't complain that you guys formed a coalition to bring us down, at least not anymore, its the way things have to be. Every couple rounds the top dawg has to get knocked down. Actually The fall of MI led to the growth of a lot of alliances, which is a very good thing. But w/o people carrying grudges over the game becomes nothing more than a boring huggle fest.

I won't call that a troll buddy. You and I both get the game. I know baggage gets carried over. It's the way it goes. And the simple fact is, this is the way Admin and/or creators of the game would want it. It provide action, interests, and excitement in the game. More over, the more people play, the more donations they get, the more money they can reinvest in the game...

Hug fests are no fun. This is a war game and if they wanted and econ war, they would have created CNee (Econ Edition) and no CNse is NOT all ECON

But it's always fun to debate ya on the forums. Good ol' times.

[Sir Taefir Estavok]

Harmful didn't attack anyone. Want to know why? Because you didn't have the organization to pull any sort of meaningful war off. It wasn't some special relationship with RE, some sense of nostalgia, that kept you from attacking. It was incompetence, plain and simple.

LOL.

Seriously? This is what you could come up with? MHA is the third highest scoring alliance in TE (and only in third because of Frostbite's sudden emergence). They know how to fight a war.

Also, thai, pretty much everything you said in the OP is true.

[lonewolfe2015]

Harmful didn't attack anyone. Want to know why? Because you didn't have the organization to pull any sort of meaningful war off. It wasn't some special relationship with RE, some sense of nostalgia, that kept you from attacking. It was incompetence, plain and simple.

I never thought I'd see the day where I didn't feel my opponent worthy any longer.

Harmful was discussing around the opening of week 4 who to attack, as we hadn't been in a war for awhile. We threw options around, RE and TF's names were mentioned and SHOT down by none other than me. We figured it'd be bad to attack allies, or something significantly smaller than us so that really trimmed our options.

By the time we reached a decision, we had a day to prepare for a coalition against us by a few alliances. Equaling a strength way stronger, designed to curb stomp us.

Guess what? You attacked around the middle of the round. And we fought for a very long time that round, seemingly never ended fighting because peace was never an option with RE by your design I suppose. TF was kind enough to withdraw, and SWAT reached peace with us.

We're just going in circles Tiberius.

[Gondor]

o/ Judgment

This the best post that explains the reasoning behind it all in a long time in either SE or TE.

[thaisport]

Harmful didn't attack anyone. Want to know why? Because you didn't have the organization to pull any sort of meaningful war off. It wasn't some special relationship with RE, some sense of nostalgia, that kept you from attacking. It was incompetence, plain and simple.

Wow, such balls Tibs If you don't think harmful could have ever attacked you can ask all senior members of my staff and former members along with former senior management

I have always walked a neutral ground. A big alliance picking on small alliances get's people pissed. I am not one to piss off people. But you can't please everyone. If you think it was incompetence then you are wrong. It was a choice. However when we attack now in full force across the entire wolf board you are pissed. You see the ability of harmful to plan with others and work with others and hopefully now you know it was otherwise.

Remember Tibs there are no rules, you can only play by what you believe and what your moral codes may be. The ethics in this game is nothing more that what you create. Just remember I never made personal attacks on anyone. Your comments above will show what kind of person you are, that's not my doing buddy, that's you.

Thaisport

Edited August 30, 2009 by thaisport

[Varianz]

I never thought I'd see the day where I didn't feel my opponent worthy any longer.

Harmful was discussing around the opening of week 4 who to attack, as we hadn't been in a war for awhile. We threw options around, RE and TF's names were mentioned and SHOT down by none other than me. We figured it'd be bad to attack allies, or something significantly smaller than us so that really trimmed our options.

By the time we reached a decision, we had a day to prepare for a coalition against us by a few alliances. Equaling a strength way stronger, designed to curb stomp us.

Guess what? You attacked around the middle of the round. And we fought for a very long time that round, seemingly never ended fighting because peace was never an option with RE by your design I suppose. TF was kind enough to withdraw, and SWAT reached peace with us.

We're just going in circles Tiberius.

And you're lying through your teeth. We contacted you several times trying to get peace. You, seeing that SWAT had peaced out and TF had withdrawn, got greedy and decided to try and take us. You thought you could get back at us for attacking you. You were the one with no interest in peace.

[Varianz]

Wow, such balls Tibs If you don't think harmful could have ever attacked you can ask all senior members of my staff and former members along with former senior management

I have always walked a neutral ground. A big alliance picking on small alliances get's people pissed. I am not one to piss off people. But you can't please everyone. If you think it was incompetence then you are wrong. It was a choice. However when we attack now in full force across the entire wolf board you are pissed. You see the ability of harmful to plan with others and work with others and hopefully now you know it was otherwise.

Remember Tibs there are no rules, you can only play by what you believe and what your moral codes may be. The ethics in this game is nothing more that what you create. Just remember I never made personal attacks on anyone. Your comments above will show what kind of person you are, that's not my doing buddy, that you.

Thaisport

I said nothing about big alliances picking on the small. You didn't have to do anything of the sort to get involved in wars. Instead, you sat back and did nothing for two rounds in a row. I didn't say it was incompetent for you not to attack anyone, I said you didn't attack anyone because you were incompetent. Harmful has a history of letting others fight their wars for them. As for this new Judgment, this wasn't your doing. You were handed this on a silver platter. The work was done by others, just as the fighting is mostly being done by others. I'm not pissed about being attacked. I'm pissed because you and your alliance have re-written history and told blatant lies, and of course, are claiming credit where credit is not due.

[Gabryal]

I was fine with this until I realized something, something lone wolfe himself might not even realize

JR has threatened to stomp anyone who is in WOLF that reroll's. I've been given this ultimatum now that says so long as I'm in WOLF they will continue to DoW us until we disband.

That's a level WOLF never took anything to, and frankly it's bs. People accused WOLF of ruining TE. Thai spoke the truth when he said WOLF tried to force TE to fight on it's terms, difference here is that JR is now doing the same thing, and the terms are: Do as we ask or we will continue to curbstomp you until you do.

That was never something WOLF did, nor tried to do. Most of us wanted fair wars and were as sick of getting attacked by overwhelming odds as MHA mentioned they were above. TPF and RE in particular agreed to join to give people pause before they rolled the smaller alliances inside of WOLF.

I won't argue the MHA vs RE thing, I wasn't around for most of it, so that's for you two alliances to figure out for yourselves, when WOLF asked for a war, they wanted a good solid war, something fun and different. Instead we have gotten an ultimatum: disband or we'll never let you play anymore. What the hell is that about? You want to dictate how we play? WOLF hasn't ever dictated how someone else was to play, just tried to control the game, and so what if we did? Does anyone here actually approve of a larger alliance smashing a smaller one just for fun? MHA was it fun for you? To my knowledge no one, before now, has ever told another alliance, player, nation etc, that they have to play their way, or else be ZI'd. Now JR comes along, a true miracle of organization, and instead of the war WOLF wanted, they bring a ultimatum telling WOLF members how to play.

Well I'll tell you this, especially you lone wolf who I personally don't believe has said any of the above, that the anger at WOLf will be returned 10 fold on the members of JR. You reap what you sow my friend, and you better reign in your people or else I promise you that either 1) The people here who have been told "Do this or we'll run you right out of TE" will actually leave TE, or 2) every single alliance that is a member of JR, if they force WOLF to disband or ZI every nation, will in return have themselves ZI'd. WOLF won't die, you just might drive them under ground, and the hatred of all those who did this will remain. I for one will remember those who have said the above, and if I stick around in TE I'll make it my personal mission to make their lives as miserable as hell.

Since JR has declared they will do what WOLF never would sanction, I personally am bowing out of this round, JR you win, I hope you're happy, go ahead and finish this anyway you want. I'm done playing stupid games with children who want nothing but revenge for hurt feelings. My feelings aren't hurt, I'm pissed as hell at the hypocrisy show by JR members who cried "WOLF will curbstomp us all" and now have set out to just that, and worse to continue curbstomping until their ultimatum's are met.

For the first time I understand the bad blood between some alliances and others, I didn't before. Everyone has a point at which they stop playing to win and start playing for revenge. Mine is being told I have to do something or else I'm not allowed to play this round.

If TE survives and looks anything like what it was before JR comes along, I'll be surprised, however up till now I never got pissed, I never wanted revenge. I just wanted to play. I'll say this much, I may have bowed out this round, but other rounds are coming and no one here knows what I can bring to the fight.

Except for thai, why don't you ask him how much hell I can rain down on you if I decide to. He might even tell you.

Until we meet again, and on my terms, this is Gabryal, bowing out.

[Sir Taefir Estavok]

I was fine with this until I realized something, something lone wolfe himself might not even realize

JR has threatened to stomp anyone who is in WOLF that reroll's. I've been given this ultimatum now that says so long as I'm in WOLF they will continue to DoW us until we disband.

That's a level WOLF never took anything to, and frankly it's bs. People accused WOLF of ruining TE. Thai spoke the truth when he said WOLF tried to force TE to fight on it's terms, difference here is that JR is now doing the same thing, and the terms are: Do as we ask or we will continue to curbstomp you until you do.

That was never something WOLF did, nor tried to do. Most of us wanted fair wars and were as sick of getting attacked by overwhelming odds as MHA mentioned they were above. TPF and RE in particular agreed to join to give people pause before they rolled the smaller alliances inside of WOLF.

I won't argue the MHA vs RE thing, I wasn't around for most of it, so that's for you two alliances to figure out for yourselves, when WOLF asked for a war, they wanted a good solid war, something fun and different. Instead we have gotten an ultimatum: disband or we'll never let you play anymore. What the hell is that about? You want to dictate how we play? WOLF hasn't ever dictated how someone else was to play, just tried to control the game, and so what if we did? Does anyone here actually approve of a larger alliance smashing a smaller one just for fun? MHA was it fun for you? To my knowledge no one, before now, has ever told another alliance, player, nation etc, that they have to play their way, or else be ZI'd. Now JR comes along, a true miracle of organization, and instead of the war WOLF wanted, they bring a ultimatum telling WOLF members how to play.

Well I'll tell you this, especially you lone wolf who I personally don't believe has said any of the above, that the anger at WOLf will be returned 10 fold on the members of JR. You reap what you sow my friend, and you better reign in your people or else I promise you that either 1) The people here who have been told "Do this or we'll run you right out of TE" will actually leave TE, or 2) every single alliance that is a member of JR, if they force WOLF to disband or ZI every nation, will in return have themselves ZI'd. WOLF won't die, you just might drive them under ground, and the hatred of all those who did this will remain. I for one will remember those who have said the above, and if I stick around in TE I'll make it my personal mission to make their lives as miserable as hell.

Since JR has declared they will do what WOLF never would sanction, I personally am bowing out of this round, JR you win, I hope you're happy, go ahead and finish this anyway you want. I'm done playing stupid games with children who want nothing but revenge for hurt feelings. My feelings aren't hurt, I'm pissed as hell at the hypocrisy show by JR members who cried "WOLF will curbstomp us all" and now have set out to just that, and worse to continue curbstomping until their ultimatum's are met.

For the first time I understand the bad blood between some alliances and others, I didn't before. Everyone has a point at which they stop playing to win and start playing for revenge. Mine is being told I have to do something or else I'm not allowed to play this round.

If TE survives and looks anything like what it was before JR comes along, I'll be surprised, however up till now I never got pissed, I never wanted revenge. I just wanted to play. I'll say this much, I may have bowed out this round, but other rounds are coming and no one here knows what I can bring to the fight.

Except for thai, why don't you ask him how much hell I can rain down on you if I decide to. He might even tell you.

Until we meet again, and on my terms, this is Gabryal, bowing out.

Link or it didn't happen.

[Gondor]

I was fine with this until I realized something, something lone wolfe himself might not even realize

JR has threatened to stomp anyone who is in WOLF that reroll's. I've been given this ultimatum now that says so long as I'm in WOLF they will continue to DoW us until we disband.

That's a level WOLF never took anything to, and frankly it's bs. People accused WOLF of ruining TE. Thai spoke the truth when he said WOLF tried to force TE to fight on it's terms, difference here is that JR is now doing the same thing, and the terms are: Do as we ask or we will continue to curbstomp you until you do.

That was never something WOLF did, nor tried to do. Most of us wanted fair wars and were as sick of getting attacked by overwhelming odds as MHA mentioned they were above. TPF and RE in particular agreed to join to give people pause before they rolled the smaller alliances inside of WOLF.

I won't argue the MHA vs RE thing, I wasn't around for most of it, so that's for you two alliances to figure out for yourselves, when WOLF asked for a war, they wanted a good solid war, something fun and different. Instead we have gotten an ultimatum: disband or we'll never let you play anymore. What the hell is that about? You want to dictate how we play? WOLF hasn't ever dictated how someone else was to play, just tried to control the game, and so what if we did? Does anyone here actually approve of a larger alliance smashing a smaller one just for fun? MHA was it fun for you? To my knowledge no one, before now, has ever told another alliance, player, nation etc, that they have to play their way, or else be ZI'd. Now JR comes along, a true miracle of organization, and instead of the war WOLF wanted, they bring a ultimatum telling WOLF members how to play.

Well I'll tell you this, especially you lone wolf who I personally don't believe has said any of the above, that the anger at WOLf will be returned 10 fold on the members of JR. You reap what you sow my friend, and you better reign in your people or else I promise you that either 1) The people here who have been told "Do this or we'll run you right out of TE" will actually leave TE, or 2) every single alliance that is a member of JR, if they force WOLF to disband or ZI every nation, will in return have themselves ZI'd. WOLF won't die, you just might drive them under ground, and the hatred of all those who did this will remain. I for one will remember those who have said the above, and if I stick around in TE I'll make it my personal mission to make their lives as miserable as hell.

Since JR has declared they will do what WOLF never would sanction, I personally am bowing out of this round, JR you win, I hope you're happy, go ahead and finish this anyway you want. I'm done playing stupid games with children who want nothing but revenge for hurt feelings. My feelings aren't hurt, I'm pissed as hell at the hypocrisy show by JR members who cried "WOLF will curbstomp us all" and now have set out to just that, and worse to continue curbstomping until their ultimatum's are met.

For the first time I understand the bad blood between some alliances and others, I didn't before. Everyone has a point at which they stop playing to win and start playing for revenge. Mine is being told I have to do something or else I'm not allowed to play this round.

If TE survives and looks anything like what it was before JR comes along, I'll be surprised, however up till now I never got pissed, I never wanted revenge. I just wanted to play. I'll say this much, I may have bowed out this round, but other rounds are coming and no one here knows what I can bring to the fight.

Except for thai, why don't you ask him how much hell I can rain down on you if I decide to. He might even tell you.

Until we meet again, and on my terms, this is Gabryal, bowing out.

So you're saying that you want to complain about JR but give up?

If you don't like us, fight us. WOLF is big, and JR is just as big. It's pretty much even. Fight us, and if you win, you get your terms.

Or you could quit and complain we're meanies. I never claimed that WOLF had ruined the game. I was happy that one day it was going to come crashing down. If we win, it's your turn to do that.