Sumeragi Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) As one can see from my thread of my "return", it seems I'm so "loved" that people are willing to bury me even when my wipeout/banning was overturned AND an action which was made invalid before an IC thing happened is still being considered valid by those who have interests in my land. Perhaps it's time that I drop my polite side and just go all !@#$@#$ out with the dirty tactics. New GMs, may I ask for your judgments on my hard situation, a legacy of the past regime? 1. Russian Invasion This post was made almost 12 hours before Sargun's IC reply. Wouldn't this automatically make all the RPs following the OP invalid? 2. Altin Urda Land Issue HK47 overturned my ban/wipeout. Since this mean my government NEVER fell, all RPs concerning my nation should be automatically considered invalid, INCLUDING the formation of Cochin. However, it seems some people are not willing to play it clean. I hoped that I can come back quietly, but it seems this was not to be. Sorry for throwing this to you guys, LVN/VInce/Subtle. I hope you guys make a fair ruling, for the sake of CNRP. With love, Sumeragi. Edited April 21, 2009 by Sumeragi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I like how you're so polite with this. Classy B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I'm going to talk with Subtle so we can come up with a joint ruling, seeing as LVN would not be thought of as a neutral party. Here is my opinion: 1. Leave the new nations in her territory. 2. If existing nations expanded into her territory, I will make them retract those RPs and reduce the expansion. 3. Sumeragi will not get the full extent of her lands, but if anything, less than half of what she had. If anyone wants to complain or put in their two cents, put it in this thread, I want to see your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Hmm. Barely 24 hours and already my first sticky situation. What you have given certainly seems to be in line with the facts, and you did make the offer to Sargun to "whitewash" your 'invasion' of Artemis' protectorate. On the other hand, your sphere of influence does not cover all you claimed in the first place. You will most likely have to tolerate at least a couple of these new nations--however, this does not mean you should give up all your land or even your nation. I'm not sure how much land is left, but whtever there is, you keep it, and if it is not enough, the borders of the new nations should be pushed back just a little to give you more room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 It seems that for the most part we are in agreement, Vince. Fair enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 All of her land is occupied, she has no Altin Urda left. My two cents is simple, as you saw on IRC vince; She is facing the consequences of her actions; whether she likes it or not. If she is allowed to come back as Altin Urda, she will get invaded because she invaded Sargun's land (and he hired me to help). Whining to the mods because you screwed up only shows a poor character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Yep, we are in accord with this, so this ruling is now fact. I'll make a new thread detailing what nations will have to do. It'd be easier if we currently had a map of who had what. But, I think we'll manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanis777 Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I'm going to talk with Subtle so we can come up with a joint ruling, seeing as LVN would not be thought of as a neutral party.Here is my opinion: 1. Leave the new nations in her territory. 2. If existing nations expanded into her territory, I will make them retract those RPs and reduce the expansion. 3. Sumeragi will not get the full extent of her lands, but if anything, less than half of what she had. If anyone wants to complain or put in their two cents, put it in this thread, I want to see your opinions. It's a decent ruling from my viewpoint. Although to Subtle, new nations shouldn't reduce their land size for Sumeragi, they should keep what they claimed. #2 is spot on as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) It's a decent ruling from my viewpoint. Although to Subtle, new nations shouldn't reduce their land size for Sumeragi, they should keep what they claimed. #2 is spot on as well. That's only if Sumer doesn't have much land left even after taking expansions by existing nations into account. Edited April 21, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Honestly anyone that says "To bad you lost your nation for a moment. You're not getting it back." Simply are taking advantage of a mistreated situation. Under that silly logic the new, completely blank, world map means wild claims can be made if you lag behind in reaffirming your land SOI. Don't get there fast enough? Tough. You lost the land. Go cry. See how that logic sucks? Edited April 21, 2009 by Tahsir Re Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Honestly anyone that says "To bad you lost your nation for a moment. You're not getting it back." Simply are taking advantage of a mistreated situation. Under that silly logic the new, completely blank, world map means wild claims can be made if you lag behind in reaffirming your land SOI. Don't get there fast enough? Tough. You lost the land. Go cry. See how that logic sucks? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 1. Russian InvasionThis post was made almost 12 hours before Sargun's IC reply. Wouldn't this automatically make all the RPs following the OP invalid? A ruling one this also would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk11 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Now I may not be a GM anymore, but I think people will agree with me when I say Sumeragi's getting screwed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I feel sorry for Sumergai because even with this new ruling and if the GM's rule that her orginal attacks never happened then I know she will still be attacked. So yea Sumergai is screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 if the GM's rule that her orginal attacks never happened then I know she will still be attacked. Incorrect. If the GM's rule her original attacks invalid then I will go along with it and continue on my business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Incorrect.If the GM's rule her original attacks invalid then I will go along with it and continue on my business. Ah ok my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 The problem with just flat-out ruling that they never happened is that it erases a lot of other things...like the new players. If we can come up with a plausible explanation for them without the attack, I'd say go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 A suggestion. Below is an IC suggestion by me for this problem, it isn't perfect and doesn't have to be chosen as I said its just a suggestion. Right the idea is this. We say sumergai was still going to carry out the attack with her forces of Sargun's forces and land however, along the war and at the jump point for the attack weather conditions took a massive change and the ground became to ill conditioned for proper use in the attack and thus Sumergai's government called the attack off however, due to this a number of groups who were in opposition to Sumergai's government rebelled or declared independance with almost full support from their local population. Due to this plus a number of soldiers deserting to protect their families in the rebelling areas Sumergai's government pulls back to regroup in its still loyal territory. So at the end of the above suggestion, the attack was never carried out and thus no war was needed to be declared, the new nations can remain as they are or with the 25% reduction in land as per the GM's wishes and Sumergai gets to have some territory without anyone destroying her. Anyway thats my suggestion upto you GM's and players if you want to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 -Snip of No- She attacked someone IC, and no matter what the mods rule, she will be invaded and removed according to that IN CHARACTER invasion ^ IN CHARACTER She is not going to avoid the consequences of this action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, after careful deliberation, we have decided that even though the ban was overturned, what Sumeragi did by invading someone after a lock was still not good. So, she can be put back onto the map in any white space she wishes to be put in, equal or less than her SoI, as the rules go. In any case, I think I will be the first to suggest this ruling: Once your nation is locked, no more RP or advancements can go on your RP nation. If you are to break that ruling, your nation will be wiped and you can start anew from a different white space. This will be a set in stone ruling, as so many rules are not set in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, after careful deliberation, we have decided that even though the ban was overturned, what Sumeragi did by invading someone after a lock was still not good. So, she can be put back onto the map in any white space she wishes to be put in, equal or less than her SoI, as the rules go. In any case, I think I will be the first to suggest this ruling: Once your nation is locked, no more RP or advancements can go on your RP nation. If you are to break that ruling, your nation will be wiped and you can start anew from a different white space. This will be a set in stone ruling, as so many rules are not set in stone. To summarize. The map ban was wrong and overturned However, you do not need to be on the map to RP Hence, because no IC resistance was shown when people annexed / invaded etc. They gained land with little effort. You are free to come back to the land in any unclaimed area(white) but people who have made expansions into your former land do not need to scale back their expansions. As a nation coming new to the map, your inital claim must be no bigger than your SoI. If you rejoin as Altin Urda, you will also have the accept the consequences of your invasion. A ruling one this also would be nice. No, when you take a IC action that is not a RP wipe worthy god mod, there is no way to take it back. If the IC nation of Altin Urda exists then it will be considered to have invaded that land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 The problem with just flat-out ruling that they never happened is that it erases a lot of other things...like the new players. If we can come up with a plausible explanation for them without the attack, I'd say go for it. There will be a reason for the new players, if anyone remembers what I said about the Sacred Conflict RP I was doing. Really, are we going to recognize a impetuous decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 There will be a reason for the new players, if anyone remembers what I said about the Sacred Conflict RP I was doing.Really, are we going to recognize a impetuous decision? Yes we are. I had to when I made one a time ago so you will have to as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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