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Re: Gramlins


sippyjuice

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So apparently GDA's little announcement has caused quite a stir. Given that our announcements rarely go for so many pages, I guess we should be flattered.

We at GDA had done tech deals with Grämlins often in the past. Given Grämlins recent war behavior, we felt that a statement of disapproval, as well as action, was necessary. You might or might not disagree with that. But really, this goes far beyond just Grämlins.

It's about the idea of surrender. Asking an alliance to completely decommission their military, before even bothering to give surrender terms is a tactic that is both brutal and dangerous. Sure, Gramlins could have simply used it to give white peace. But still, for a period of time, the fate of your alliance rested entirely in the hands of someone who is looking out for their own benefit. With traditional surrender terms, you at least have a chance to bargain for a good position for your alliance, and you have the option of backing out.

This tactic of unconditional surrender effectively takes two of the greatest tools of a surrendering alliance away. You don't like the terms? Too bad, you agreed to unconditionally surrender, and now you are backing out of that agreement. So now your alliance gets blitzed while undefended. I've heard people say that you could just simply buy military back. But still, it's a risky tactic. If your enemy is faster than you, you still get blasted. Not to mention, if part of the terms call for you to come down to DEFCON 5, guess what, unless it's after update, you are stuck in DEFCON 5 while you are attacked.

It isn't just about us being on the opposite side, and taking a shot at the "enemy". If any alliance tried to introduce such tactics in a similar situation, I would certainly push for some kind of expression of disapproval. Now Grämlins, has had a shot to make their case. Had the Grämlins leadership made some kind of clarifying statement early on, it might have helped their case. But right now, all I see is a belligerent alliance intent on making some kind of statement. Which is really sad, considering where they came from.

Now, I know that some of you out there, believe that we "former-hegemonists" as I have heard us called deserve this kind of treatment because of past crimes. All I have to say, I wasn't here for whatever happened in the past. My nation was barely six months old when the Karma War rolled around. All I know is what has happened now. And this new idea on surrender is not something I want to see become common, no matter what side of the treaty web you are on.

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Two things.

1. People agree with not selling tech to Gramlins. They just think you're attention whores for making a big announcement about it when you only have one recorded tech deal with them. You only wanted attention and hails.

2. GDA was allied with Pacifica for quite some time during the hegemonic rule.

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1.)But we have done deals with them on a regular basis in the past. Ramirus would come to us himself. That regular involvement led us to believe that this course of action was necessary.

2) Yes, we were. But it's foolish to hold that over our heads now. Most of the people that actively shared the relationship with NPO are gone. Plus, I assumed that the beating we took in Karma (we've never gotten to pre-Karma strength since then) was our punishment. If it's not, please feel free to let me know just what we are supposed to do to rebuild our alliance's image in your eyes.

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1.)But we have done deals with them on a regular basis in the past. Ramirus would come to us himself. That regular involvement led us to believe that this course of action was necessary.

2) Yes, we were. But it's foolish to hold that over our heads now. Most of the people that actively shared the relationship with NPO are gone. Plus, I assumed that the beating we took in Karma (we've never gotten to pre-Karma strength since then) was our punishment. If it's not, please feel free to let me know just what we are supposed to do to rebuild our alliance's image in your eyes.

1. And you thought you needed to tell the world? Would not a PM to Ramirus have sufficed? Or did you need some sort of attention?

2. Yes, because your actions as of late are certainly rebuilding your reputation.

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1. And you thought you needed to tell the world? Would not a PM to Ramirus have sufficed? Or did you need some sort of attention?

2. Yes, because your actions as of late are certainly rebuilding your reputation.

1) why not? obviously, people like you are sitting on your @#$%, twiddling your thumbs ignoring the problem. while this may not be the single event that stops Gre dead in their tracks, they are at least doing something. frankly, just stating something in a PM is akin to all that MHA is doing. Stating in public that they disagree with what Gre is doing while appearing to do nothing. so if people are actually showing what they are doing, maybe those with far less courage would actually come around to do something. though, from the sounds of people like you, i doubt the cowards that are sitting back will do anything regardless.

2) what have they done recently exactly? sorry Chey, i like you and all but you come off sounding far worse than GDA.

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Two things.

1. People agree with not selling tech to Gramlins. They just think you're attention whores for making a big announcement about it when you only have one recorded tech deal with them. You only wanted attention and hails.

I think they wanted other people to do the same.

2. GDA was allied with Pacifica for quite some time during the hegemonic rule.

That really has nothing to do with whether or not what they're doing now is right, come up with something better.

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1) why not? obviously, people like you are sitting on your @#$%, twiddling your thumbs ignoring the problem. while this may not be the single event that stops Gre dead in their tracks, they are at least doing something. frankly, just stating something in a PM is akin to all that MHA is doing. Stating in public that they disagree with what Gre is doing while appearing to do nothing. so if people are actually showing what they are doing, maybe those with far less courage would actually come around to do something. though, from the sounds of people like you, i doubt the cowards that are sitting back will do anything regardless.

2) what have they done recently exactly? sorry Chey, i like you and all but you come off sounding far worse than GDA.

1. Well, sure I could announce the cancellation of non-existent tech deals, but that seems to me to be of little use.

2. I was referring to his final statement about not being around for NPO.

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1. Well, sure I could announce the cancellation of non-existent tech deals, but that seems to me to be of little use.

2. I was referring to his final statement about not being around for NPO.

"Yes, we were. But it's foolish to hold that over our heads now. Most of the people that actively shared the relationship with NPO are gone. Plus, I assumed that the beating we took in Karma (we've never gotten to pre-Karma strength since then) was our punishment. If it's not, please feel free to let me know just what we are supposed to do to rebuild our alliance's image in your eyes."

that was his statement. also, if most of the active people were not around for NPO, then they weren't.

but that does not mean you cannot answer my question. it has nothing to do with whether or not he was around for NPO. so again, what actions has GDA taken recently? you made the mention of their actions, not whether they were around for NPO. so answer the question, back up your accusation.

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1. Well, sure I could announce the cancellation of non-existent tech deals, but that seems to me to be of little use.

2. I was referring to his final statement about not being around for NPO.

Read the blog title, Sippy is a lady.

Also drop the GDA - NPO thing please, its getting old and has nothing to do with Gre !@#$@#$ over IRON, in fact its about time everyone stopped using NPO's past to attone for their own tyrannicle actions and let NPO and her former allies move on.

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NPO FORCED US TO ATTACK CNG!!!!!

OUR ATTACK ON CNG WASN'T AS BAD CAUSE NPO DID WORSE!!!

I am starting to like this way of argumentation, a free ride for everything done from now on :awesome:

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Ex-Hegemony alliances will always attract haters (and honestly for two years GDA fully deserved them). But making and popularising a principled stand like you have done here is a good thing. It isn't (in my opinion) just posted to get some good PR, but to show everyone that there is a simple action they can take to express their disapproval.

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"Yes, we were. But it's foolish to hold that over our heads now. Most of the people that actively shared the relationship with NPO are gone. Plus, I assumed that the beating we took in Karma (we've never gotten to pre-Karma strength since then) was our punishment. If it's not, please feel free to let me know just what we are supposed to do to rebuild our alliance's image in your eyes."

that was his statement. also, if most of the active people were not around for NPO, then they weren't.

but that does not mean you cannot answer my question. it has nothing to do with whether or not he was around for NPO. so again, what actions has GDA taken recently? you made the mention of their actions, not whether they were around for NPO. so answer the question, back up your accusation.

In the "your actions now aren't rebuilding your reputation" comment, which is what I assume you are referring to, I was talking about the fact that they were whoring for attention by announcing something of little to not import.

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In the "your actions now aren't rebuilding your reputation" comment, which is what I assume you are referring to, I was talking about the fact that they were whoring for attention by announcing something of little to not import.

ahhhh.... honestly, it is better than Athens attention whore thread which was made simply to mock GDA. it is also better than others. it may be ineffectual but at least GDA have found some cajones amongst their group (no offense to sippy :P ) and are at least partially standing up for what they believe in. it is a far better cry than those who simply talk about how much they disagree while either A) doing nothing about it or B) enabling it (which is worse than A).

so Chey- do you disagree with what Gremlins are doin?

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