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Newsweek Stats Special: The Cost of War


Bob Janova

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We've now been in a global war for over two months. Just how much stuff has been destroyed?

Overall

Size of the top 80 on 16th January: 13.9k members, 375m NS, 66.0m infra, 19.3m tech, 86.4k nukes

Size of the top 80 on 23rd March: 12.8k members, 269m NS, 46.2m infra, 15.3m tech, 62.0k nukes

Bearing in mind that some alliances dropped out of the top 80 and were replaced by those with lower losses, and that some alliances outside the top 80 will have lost significant amounts of strength too, this is a conservative calculation, but one for which the figures are easily available (through my wiki page's history) to me. Obviously it also excludes unaligned nations and micro-alliances disconnected from politics, but that's what best shows how the war is affecting the alliances which are playing the political game, which are those that drive discussion and future events.

Thus, the simplistic answer is that this war has wiped out over 100 million NS – roughly equivalent to the top 13 alliances put together, and over a quarter of the politically active NS – along with a quarter of the world's infra (around 1000 infra for every nation) and fired a third of its nukes. It's also caused around 1000 nations to cease to exist.

However, for a true measure of the scale of the damage, we should also compensate for the growth that would have happened during those two months. To do that, let's look at the growth in the previous two months, as November to January were relatively peaceful (the two main incidents, Athens-Ni and Supergrievances-TPF, did not escalate to a full scale war).

The member count between November and January did not change much, so the 1000 nations lost during the conflict are almost certainly due to the war.

In November the total NS was 357m, so we'd expect roughly another 18m strength during a two month period, bringing the total actual loss up to around 120 million. This pushes the total loss nearer to 100m than 90m but doesn't greatly affect matters. Two million infra was built in those two months, so the extra two million built and lost in the war makes little difference to the scale of the damage there. And 1.3m tech was generated in those two months for top 80 alliances, and including the 1.3m expected growth in the last two months means that the loss is over 5 million tech.

So, as a rough measure, the materials lost so far by politically active alliances in this war, in total, are 120 million NS, 20 million infra and 5.3 million tech, between 25 and 30 per cent of the initial amounts.

TOP/IRON

As the two alliances ending up on the losing side of the war, with their coalition abandoning them or receiving peace, these two former giants have ended up fighting a rearguard action against a far superior force for a long time, and their losses are accordingly large. (DAWN and TORN weren't in the top 80 so I don't have stats for them. Ask UE ;).)

During the period 16th Jan-23rd March, their losses were:

TOP: 15.7m NS, 2.12m infra, 1.17m tech -> 3.9m NS, 0.32m infra, 0.48m tech

Loss: 11.6m NS (74%), 1.80m infra (85%), 0.69m tech (59%)

IRON: 13.6m NS, 2.29m infra, 0.70m tech -> 3.73m NS, 0.47m infra, 0.32m tech

Loss: 9.9m NS (73%), 1.82m infra (79%), 0.38m tech (46%)

As expected, both alliances have lost massive amounts of everything, and around three quarters of their strength.

C&G

Of the C&G alliances, only ODN, MK, Athens, GR and Vanguard have stayed on the web throughout. FoB and =LOST= were on in January and fell out; I've used in game stats from today (25th March) for them. This bloc is winning the war, so the losses are lower than on the other side, but they've still been fighting against some strong alliances, so we'd expect some serious losses here too.

Aggregated stats for the whole bloc:

Before: 35.8m NS, 6.00m infra, 1.96m tech

After: 19.1m NS, 2.84m infra, 1.26m tech

Loss: 16.7m NS (47%), 3.16m infra (53%), 0.70m tech (36%)

So despite winning the war, this bloc has lost around half its strength and infra, though it does maintain a tech advantage (only losing one third of its tech), perhaps rendering the conflict a strategic advantage in the minds of some. The biggest losses come from FoB and MK, who both lost significantly more than half of their NS; the least from =LOST=.

Polaris

As the alliance that started the whole thing, got involved on both sides and fought through the entire war, we might expect this alliance to have suffered some major losses as well. However, they've retained a large proportion of their strength and their position on the world stage (stats-wise, at least).

January: 14.4m NS, 2.47m infra, 0.76m tech

March: 8.7m NS, 1.40m infra, 0.52m tech

Loss: 5.7m NS (40%), 1.07m infra (43%), 0.24m tech (32%)

We can see that despite their actions, Polar have actually received less damage than C&G, although they have still taken a serious beating. Most of the damage to Polar will be done in the political sphere, as their actions during this war have alienated almost every other major alliance.

Other fronts

These three main points of analysis account for 43.6m of the 120m total NS loss, and 2.25m of the 5.3m total tech loss, so between half and two thirds of the damage (within the top 80) is spread out over the other fronts of the war. The Superfriends and Remnant power clusters, and C&G hangers-on, will have shared that out between themselves.

Conclusion

As has been clear since the moment FOK and the Stickmen decided to turn Polar's initial ill-judged attack into a global war, an awful lot of damage is being done for no great reason. Both TOP/IRON and C&G have lost far more, both materially and strategically, by their choices – to open that front on the one hand, and to continue it for so long on the other – if this front had been closed at the same time as the others, everyone involved would be better off. All participants are losing significant ground to the non-participants (the headliner being NPO) and to alliances that have participated in a minor or short way, like SF or parts of the ex-Hegemony. The war should never have started, and it should have ended every day for the past 60.

TOP's apparently enormous stack of technology has been largely demolished, giving the lie to the idea that tech inflation is inevitable and that a militarily elite alliance can't be brought down. Tech is not as easily destroyable as infra but nor is it impossibly slow to destroy.

The big winners are NPO, obviously, the neutral alliances, and also UPN, GATO and Legion, who all move to the area around the sanction line. And perhaps most of all, SF, who now easily hold the balance of power over a weakened C&G in the 'Supergrievances' megacluster, and have seen two other competing power clusters (Citadel and Frostbite) disappear entirely.

Note: if you want copypasta of the data feel free to PM me, though I just grabbed it from the MDP web history.

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Tromp, it was not reasonable to expect Polar to let you roll them when you attacked them on an oA clause, and brought in Stickmen as well. You choosing to enter was guaranteeing further escalation, and since FOK does not consist entirely of political incompetents, you would have known this.

I'm not sure we would've rolled Polar, as with FOK the numbers were about 50/50 (though I take it as a compliment you seem to think we would have), but that's beside the point. Ofcourse, as Lord Brendon already said, some people wanted war, that much I will agree.

However it was not our decision to go to war with no CB, that's what Polar did. Our attack on Polar was because we felt they attacked unjustly, and thus intervention would be the right course of action.

The moment the FoA raid escalated was when Polar decided just one of the three participating alliances had to be 'punished', even though a resolution already had been reached. Grub then made statements on the OWF that he picked \m/ because they were the least connected and had expected just PC to come to \m/s defense. We all know and saw what Polar tried to do, which was isolating \m/ and PC from their allies. FOK recognised this, and chose to act. Not just to honour the spirit of the PC-FOK treaty, but also to put an end to the world policing by Polar. So we joined the defensive side of that war.

As pointed out earlier, with just FOK the numbers were about even. Now, I don't fault any of Polars allies for coming to the defense of their ally, but if Polar truly had just wanted this war to be over quick, they shouldn't have called them in.

Everything that happened after that was other people trying to take advantage of this situation, most notably TOP/IRON.

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Anenu, if that were true then you still didn't have a reason to continue it on the TOP/IRON front either ;).

to further improve community standards, fight trolling, IRON and DAWN hereby declare war against CnG
For our part, however, much our reason to enter this war lies in our desire to defeat those who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda---and that, indeed, they would take advantage of any advantageous opportunity to do so. This is a war they have brought upon themselves.

That looks like a reason to keep it going to me.

It's clear in Archon's thread starter in the huge long thread that peace was pushed on other fronts because of TOP/IRON's impending entrance, so I disagree that had they not been about to jump C&G that the whole war would just have dissipated.

We were trying to keep the war from happening before it went anywhere close to TOP and IRON being involved. We weren't happy with it before PC got involved when it was just \m/. I'm actually pretty sure than \m/'s leadership knew nothing about the pending attack when they approached NpO the last time and the message from Jyrinx that \m/ leadership mentioned as their primary motivation for ending it came from a STA member, not MK.

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Good stuff Bob. I know for our part(TORN) we started at either 1.5 or 1.6 mil (I don't remember exactly) and had a low point of about 350K. So what is that almost 78% assuming 1.5. I don't know the other stats on tech and infra though. Anyway thanks for an enlightening post.

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I should point out that the membership numbers only count the number of people who left the top 80 alliances without being replaced, rather than the number who left the game. Going off AA, POW AAs, Applicant AAs,, going unaligned, joinning smaller alliances and even forming their own alliances are all potential other places they could have gone besides out of the game.

A better metric for the measurement you were making would be the total number of nations in-game, which won't yield perfectly accurate results since the numbers are always in flux anyway, but should give a better indication of that particular trend.

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What the cupcake said. I don't believe the number of nations has gone down 1,000, as your stats indicate. We know for a fact many nations have left AAs to fight the war. Many more have gone aligned or joined other smaller alliances, and there have been many start-up AAs, which usually pull a few people each from the larger alliances.

And the second this went global is when the first shot was fired. *Attack* *Defense* "HEY DEFENSE WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU JUST CAUSED A GLOBAL WAR GOOD GOING." <-- see how this makes no sense?

Tromp, it was not reasonable to expect Polar to let you roll them when you attacked them on an oA clause, and brought in Stickmen as well. You choosing to enter was guaranteeing further escalation, and since FOK does not consist entirely of political incompetents, you would have known this.

Let's be serious here. Polar attacking \m/ was a guarantee of escalation, and the first one at that.

very nice overall analysis backed by solid facts and reasoning. Now that's the Bob Janova I like.

Agreed.

I'm not sure we would've rolled Polar, as with FOK the numbers were about 50/50 (though I take it as a compliment you seem to think we would have), but that's beside the point.

Bob knew I was intending to join you in your fight against Polar if that's as far as it went, so it'd have obviously been a beatdown on Polar once that happened. :smug:

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I should point out that the membership numbers only count the number of people who left the top 80 alliances without being replaced, rather than the number who left the game.

This is correct, although going unaligned usually precedes leaving entirely. People may have left to join micro alliances (and PoWs aren't counted as none of those are large enough to make the web) though. I actually had a sentence in the original post about that but it fell victim to an edit when I realised I had made a mistake with the stats, so thanks for pointing it out!

However, I personally think that most of those 1000 probably have left entirely, or are in the process of doing so, because I haven't seen that many new start-ups during this war.

And the second this went global is when the first shot was fired. *Attack* *Defense* "HEY DEFENSE WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU JUST CAUSED A GLOBAL WAR GOOD GOING." <-- see how this makes no sense?

FOK/Stickmen were not defending – in fact they've explicitly said they weren't fighting for \m/. And as Polar said they wouldn't be calling in their allies (against mandated defence) and that there was a quick and easy peace available from the start, I disagree that it was a guaranteed escalation from when Polar decided to start it. (I mean, the very meaning of 'escalation' implies a pre-existing situation to escalate, so Polar couldn't have escalated it, since 'it' didn't exist when they decided to start it!)

Don't take this as supporting Polar starting the war, but they wanted to keep it as a limited engagement, and it wasn't their choice to make it a global war, though I'm sure they were prepared for that response.

very nice overall analysis backed by solid facts and reasoning. Now that's the Bob Janova I like.

Thanks ;)

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