eejack

[quote name='Haquertal' timestamp='1285002203' post='2459000'] The tech raider started a raid. When the person fights back, it escalates into a fight. What exactly are you missing here? [/quote] So raiders not only hide behind their alliance but also behind semantics? Raiders sound very...ummm...hidey. EEjack

Raiding ( tech or land ) is properly done when you have no alliance to back you up. Then you can call it raiding. Anything else is bullying and is done by those weaklings who are unwilling to truly test themselves in a real fight. I consider proper raiding to be moral and good for all involved, however 'faux' raiding from behind the skirts of an alliance is morally bankrupt. EEjack

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284972645' post='2458802'] It's not unneeded. Although we've gotten 90m on three separate occasions he STILL got secret aid again just a few days ago. Despite people complaining that 90m is extortion, it doesn't seem to be a deterrent whatsoever. On-topic, I believe sanctions to always be acceptable to use on anyone you don't consider an alliance. I'm not particularly in favor of sanctions being used in full-scale wars if only for the fact that you can't use them on everybody so there's not much point in trying. [/quote] The reason why Methrage is such a poor example is GOONS declared war on his alliance ... so it is an alliance v alliance war. Either you have to go with, sanctions are a valid part in alliance v alliance wars OR GOONS is breaking an accepted practice and should be villified for doing so. Since there have been sanctions laid by many colors I suspect we have to go with..."sanctions are a valid part in alliance v alliance wars" based on popular action ( not obviously popular opinion ). As far as "we can't get them all so why bother"? Consider the chaos and disruption caused by having your trades taking out from under you during wartime. You are not getting those trades back if those folks are not members of your alliance ( collateral damage tends not to return to get hit again ). If you combine spying with sanctions, especially in a war across color boundries, sanctions could be a good tool, kind of like nukes were when only the top 5% had them. If you look at the Kerberos Nexus v GOONS war just sanctioning 25% of Kerberos Nexus has pretty much eliminated their nuclear forces. ( again however - the disruption of sanctions is too unfocused and broad to be used at all and they should be removed from the game entirely as we have seen a. they don't work b. harm everyone but the target c. can be replaced with spying and politics )

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1284867005' post='2457712'] aye, that doesnt actually work either. [/quote] And it has not worked how many times? What works ... 90M for getting caught. EEjack edit: word filters

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1284696090' post='2456340'] In Methrage's case specifically it limits the amount of people who can send him secret aid, which is extremely useful when searching for potential secret aid senders, as entire spheres can be ignored. Sanctions have their uses. [/quote] In Methrage's case specifically it is unneeded since GOONS convinced Planet Bob that 90M is fair return for aiding Methrage. It is a situation where the sanctions are not working, but the aggrieved party has found other solutions. However I have no issue with sanctioning Methrage since GOONS is fighting Kerberos Nexus and my assumption is GOONS is using sanctions against all of the members of that alliance. Sanctions as part of a declared war amongst alliances, in my view, are valid and useful. However if they are continued after the war, again sanctions would fall into the vindictive and petty category. On the flip side, if current convention is to NOT use sanctions in declared war amongst alliances, then GOONS would be breaking a basic common law by doing so ( which makes bringing up Methrage as a specific example difficult and confusing ). EEjack

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1284672387' post='2456008'] It's your fault for rogueing on us while you still owed tech, not ours. [/quote] That is awesome in it's absolute bitterness. Which in my mind goes to show that the sanction, rather than being used as tool of warfare, is used in a vindictive and spiteful manner most of the time. Let us not pretend it currently serves any other use than as a mechanism of venomous retaliation against potential innocent bystanders. EEjack

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1284377738' post='2452186'] Considering all wars are nuclear these days, there's no justification for sanctioning...<snipped> [/quote] Nuke rogues. I understand, back in the day when nukes were kept to the top 5% it may have made some sense, but times have changed and the use of sanctions should change as well. Use them as strategic weapons of mass distruption, like nukes used to be used and not a tactical knee-jerk for every 'omg rogue' situation. I only picked on Bob Janova's quote since it is conveniently well written - Thanks Bob.

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1284144947' post='2448950'] 1. Do you support the use of trade sanctions on an unaligned or one-man AA nuclear nation that has initiated a nuclear conflict against a recognized alliance? [/quote] No, as idea that a lone wolf ( or as some folks put it rogue ) nation might be unduly punished for facing a larger opponent solo is petty. Any alliance that is worth being recognized should be able to deal with a single nation. Seriously, it is sad how much some folks flip out when some single nation 'dares' to confront them. [quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1284144947' post='2448950'] 4. In any case, would you support the use of trade sanctions as a tool of war in a conflict between two or more recognized alliances? [/quote] The point of all this politicing is to have weapons available to you in times of real war. A nation alone does not make a real war. Alliance v alliance is another story and sanctions, like nukes, should be an option. edit: a caveat ... in reality sanctions should be removed from gameplay altogether due to the detrimental effect of broken trades that occur. Having lost several trade circles due to sanctions I can attest to how infuriating it is to lose one's trades because someone [s]petty little scared kid[/s] freaks out over a 'rogue' and gets a sanction put down. If it is in the game it should be used for war ... but it really should be removed

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283789591' post='2443883'] I'm not made or mad. I got what I wanted in this matter. I delivered Corinan's head on a silver platter. I'm sure he'll enjoy being GOONS banker boy. GOONS was merciful. The next time you guys mess up you guys will be rolled and made to pay a harsher punishment. LOLNSO. [/quote] You betrayed your alliance and caused it great harm. No Alliance will ever accept you. Delete. Reroll. And never post again, because your idiocy will reveal itself as soon as you open your mouth. The only good you will ever be to this community is as an standard of fail. Someday someone soon will say... "well that was stupid, but at least it was not Fernando12 stupid". Think of it this way...it cost NSO $90M to be rid of you. That is a bargain. EEjack

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283725779' post='2443052'] Get with the program. GOONS spied Corinan already and proved that he did aid Methrage. Corinan is paying $90m reps. Don't like reading or what? [/quote] Actually, one of two things happens...either you made it up ( roll a 19 or less on a twenty sided die ) or you knew it for a fact ( roll a 20 ). Having only read to that point, I rolled a 12....figured you just made it up. The thought that you somehow *knew* something to be true never actually occurred to me since I never figured you to be smart enough to be a spy - especially against NSO. Looks like I was wrong. EEjack

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283643467' post='2441852'] You know what, you all can find out yourselves. He canceled one foreign aid slot he had pending so he now has 3? available???? Get 3 Rulers on IRC, each send him 50tech. If the last nation can't send aid then you'll know why, secret aid slot. There, prove me wrong or prove me right. Easy enough. [/quote] Seems like an elaborate ruse to obtain 150 tech with no payment. Seriously I have proof. It is all right here in this thread. It is a conspiracy of the most evilest sort ever. EEjack

Money sent. Thank you for selling. EEjack

o/ Symphony o/ Old Guard o/ Third post troll ( it would not be an OG post without jealousy ) EEjack

I used to feel this way, that nukes were to be saved for a rainy day Now I am of the opinion that nuking early and often is the only way to fight. All the other mechanisms are warmup or icing on the nuke attack.

I plotted all the points that seemed appropriate (since the further/closer to the weekend and srs drinking things ... ummm ... change ), and then connected them. [IMG]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9678/k83ho62k.jpg[/IMG] EEjack

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1281396986' post='2408604'] Don't matter who made it. All I ask is for people to read it. [/quote] Actually it does. If there was a way of having credibility less than zero, to have less credibility than basically every poster here, to have so little respect shown to them that it completely fails to register, to be so absolutely low on the totem pole of care that a person would have to dig up to breath...that person would have more credibility that you. EEjack

This "player" has all of his aid slots open so keep an eye out for him posting here about stealing tech money. EEjack

Thank you kind sir. I was confused as to what to do but after consulting your WarBaw-o-Matic[sup]tm[/sup] I put on the kettle for popcorn. EEjack satisfied WarBaw-o-Matic[sup]tm[/sup] user since 2010

[quote name='Pryath' timestamp='1281325211' post='2406296'] Don't forget about him being in peacemode...I must re-emphasize this. Since when did vader wear pink and wave a white flag fernando? [/quote] Wait a second - all this trolling and yakking and acting tough and fernando is a peacenik? Goes to reread fernando12's posts with Tiny Tim's voice. EEjack

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1281122200' post='2402939'] This gets said an awful lot, can you prove it? like bring forth some numbers that say 100 people got raided and 76 of them quit? [/quote] No, actually I do not. I do know a bunch of folks who play lots of different games and the general opinion is if you play CN you must join an alliance or be hounded to deletion. If there were a way of looking at the age of all the nations at 24/25 days inactivity I suspect an overwhelming number of them would be under 50 days old and with several recent wars sitting on alliance none. However short of some 'report' like that all we have to go by is anecdotal information ( which in my case and experience supports the idea that tech raiding causes player loss ). I am not saying it is not a valid way of playing the game, it just has a cost in terms of the overall game. Perhaps banging the lusers who cannot cut it early serves some purpose or it allows the kids who pull wings off of flies a place to play, but it does cost us players. EEjack edit: werds are hard.

Voted yes to both as we lose too many players to constant tech raiding.

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1280759452' post='2398375'] Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. If you or your alliance has never had to cancel a treaty on an ally then by all means criticize MHA. Not many here can rightfully do so. [/quote] Kzoppistan knows a thing or two about honoring treaties even at the expense of a nation and an alliance, even when there is an out, even when the only thing that made sense made no sense at all. You may question others...but not this one. EEjack /Sad to see this accord end - but truly it was till death and grämlins is indeed dead.

[quote name='General Ian' timestamp='1280640652' post='2396822'] Please read other thread I don't feel like repeating my self. And reciepts don't matter to me at all [/quote] Because you have no intention of sending any tech. Got it. Brilliant plan. EEjack

[quote name='General Ian' timestamp='1280640482' post='2396819'] Do whatever u want, my nation is self sufficient. [/quote] I'm happy for you. You have found a way to derive joy out of a simple game, a simple transaction, by being a thief, a liar and a cheat. Congrats - you won your game. EEjack

General Ian is confused on how tech deals work. His assumption is he gets the money and buys tech and keeps it. EEjack