Sephiroth

Good luck and have fun with this.

[quote name='HeinousOne' date='03 February 2010 - 08:11 AM' timestamp='1265202661' post='2156352'] We don't believe in sides. [/quote] MK seemed to when they were complaining about NpO helping us on our front with GOD. Its a shame you guys would let MK elawyer you onto the other side while we're still fighting CSN, although I realize you guys are doing what you think right.

[quote name='Saber' date='03 February 2010 - 04:21 AM' timestamp='1265188891' post='2156145'] I do believe I would be very upset if I got peace for my alliance just so opposing coalition can focus on other people on my side. I'd see it as attempt to divide and conquer what it really is. [/quote] Pretty much this, MK didn't want an even fight so they tried turning this into two separate wars through elawyering (Of course it was one war again when they wanted to complain about NpO helping us on our front with GOD). We're not fools though and don't leave comrades behind.

[quote name='Jack Diorno' date='03 February 2010 - 06:23 AM' timestamp='1265196217' post='2156256'] This is a good war, as much as allies are ending up opposing each other, there is a definite trend to it. All alliances that were at one point in time NPO's !@#$%* are on one side, everyone else on the other. Prove me wrong. [/quote] You really believe what your saying? Take a look at your side, you have plenty of former NPO allies, although most of them turned on NPO for the Karma War to be on the winning side. Sparta and MHA were still allied to them when the Karma War started and took part in every Q war as far as I know.

[quote name='junkahoolik' date='03 February 2010 - 04:46 AM' timestamp='1265190390' post='2156164'] if IRON would have entered the war on NSO's side it would be at war with the same alliances as it is now. now i know that CnG likes being a hypocrite when it comes to wars, but can we please skip over the "baaaaw you attacked us" comments for this one?? thank you!! [/quote] Their name makes a lot of sense when you consider how much complaining they've done this war.

This is interesting considering the history between FAN and NoR. I can't say I approve of you guys helping those who are attacking IRON, but have fun.

This is disappointing to see, but have fun out there.

Best of luck to both of you and have fun. o/ NATO o/ TFD

Nice declaration of war, very classy. I have a lot respect for you guys doing the right thing here.

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='02 February 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1265136150' post='2153519'] Excepting RoK, and yet RoK were the only one's who have now twice had an ally attacked by polar. I am not complaining, I am just discussing the war and adding how I feel about it, you mistake my intentions as someone who has a real stake in this, I do not, I stopped caring many many months ago about the trivial politics here on Bob, I do still find them entertaining and fun to debate which is why I stick around. GOD doesn't at all mind this war so I have no reason to either. If NpO wanted in they could have said they like their allies in NSO most and that is the treaty we choose to honor and that would have been understandable from an alliance in a tough position. They did not do that though they came in and made cries of how they were played and how everyone else is an opportunist which is a load of crap. I like calling people out when they are full of crap and, that in fact is usually my favorite part of war, so I am enjoying this don't worry about me. [/quote] Alliances on the other side have hit allies of treaty partners as well (I don't see you calling them out ) and I don't think NpO claimed they didn't, but considering we were at war with GOD they had better reason than most who ended up hitting an ally's treaty partner in this war.

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='02 February 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1265134645' post='2153475'] I have been off the sidelines plenty in my time, just because I am not directly involved with NpO does not mean I do not have the experience to know how I would handle a similar situation. But you keep attacking the person behind the argument instead of the argument itself, I hear that is a good debate tactic. I have said since my first post that I believe Polar should be neutral, and whether the ink on the peace was dry or not Polar knew both that TOP was attacking and that peace was being hammered out and it was Polar's responsibility and theirs alone to communicate that to all relevant parties. They did not and I do believe Grub has even admitted that. And just as a point of note to further prove my point, according to the logs in the peace thread Grub had agreed to peace close to 2 hours before TOP's declaration. [/quote] Regardless of what you believe, they aren't neutral, so no use whining about it now. Your points don't matter since more important factors came into play. If you still can't grasp the basic concept of sticking by those who fight alongside you, I don't think you'll ever understand. Now enjoy the war and stop complaining about NpO so much.

[quote name='Tulafaras' date='02 February 2010 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1265133440' post='2153442'] That's why Ivan's post 3 pages back confused me massively, since he sounds as if he would accept that stipulation... [/quote] If you read it over carefully you'll notice he says nothing of agreeing to not defend our allies or leaving any behind. He was clarifying we're not in this for any reason other than our allies.

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='02 February 2010 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1265132150' post='2153404'] and no NpO did not attack a direct ally of C&G they, for the second time in about a week, attacked a direct ally of their MDoAP partner Ragnarok, The alliance who was the first to sign a treaty with polar after the noCB war and an alliance who has done nothing to slight them since. [/quote] If you would consider a treaty between two other alliances reason to not honor a treaty you signed yourself, then your priorities are wrong. That you would argue this so heavily implies a treaty with you wouldn't mean much, as it implies if you were in NpO's position you would of rather left us on our own.

I think this has been one of the more interesting and fun wars.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='02 February 2010 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1265128116' post='2153284'] Really? [/quote] Do you see IRON in that list? Everyone: Quantum, UPN, MA, Alchemy, TTK, Invicta, TYR, LOUD, Hydra, NSO, CSN, RIA, CD, ICB, GO, FOK, SNAFU, Corp, and BAPS I don't.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='02 February 2010 - 11:08 AM' timestamp='1265126933' post='2153246'] Never mind the fact that FARK was going to vote on giving them peace, what kind of logic is that to attack GOD? The alliance that had offered peace and was working together with NSO to get them peace from all their wars? Where is their support of MK, an alliance that wasn't even fighting? You're being blissfully ignorant here bob. [/quote] You're blissfully ignorant if you think Fark was going to give IRON peace. I don't think even GOD claimed to be trying to get peace for IRON. The alliances fighting IRON have no intention of letting them surrender or get peace for a long time.

[quote name='Goose' date='02 February 2010 - 09:45 AM' timestamp='1265121923' post='2153151'] You honestly expect Fark to give peace to IRON just to get rid of NSO? Honestly, NSO and IRON would both be better off if NSO were to get peace now, rebuild and save. Then, when IRON is at peace, aid-bombing IRON as best they can. What you're doing now is simply lugging your cross through the streets with the intent to climb on and nail yourself to it. [/quote] I think this will be a damaging long war for both sides and now NpO is involved as well to make it even more damaging the longer you keep it going. How much damage is it worth it for Superfriends to take for CnG's sake? CnG is the only one your really helping by keeping IRON at war, your allies in SF get no benefit from this war other than lots of damage. We're prepared to fight until all of us get white peace, so might as well just enjoy ourselves till then.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='02 February 2010 - 08:22 AM' timestamp='1265116923' post='2153051'] It seems the other side is willing to call this one war when it benefits them in one situation, and two wars in others. [/quote] Its two separate wars when MK wants to complain about TOP declaring on them, its one war when they want to complain about NpO helping us out. When looking for something to complain about consistency and facts don't seem to matter.

[quote name='Thunder Strike' date='02 February 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1265114186' post='2153010'] I swear that has already been mention in this topic. I guess you are just to lazy to read back but I'll quote it for you. [/quote] I don't see how their gov system would prove anything. Since you seem to know what Fark was planning, how long did they plan to wait before giving peace to everyone at war with them?

[quote name='Thunder Strike' date='02 February 2010 - 06:40 AM' timestamp='1265110810' post='2152966'] Your response to me saying diplomacy failed is to say that diplomacy failed? [/quote] Fark wasn't going to give peace to NSO and IRON, they didn't want the war to end. GOD wasn't exiting without Fark, so diplomacy had failed. I don't see how its hard to understand.

Its good to see you support your allies, nicely done.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='02 February 2010 - 04:44 AM' timestamp='1265103857' post='2152891'] Both \m/ and NpO hold MDoAP treaties with RoK. NpO dow'd on \m/ making NpO the agressor, it can be successfully argued RoK should have defended us against agression (no we didn't ask or expect) but RoK stepped aside and let NpO wail on us, what more do you want? [/quote] People can stop complaining that NpO declared war here, I'm sure you wouldn't of been willing to leave PC behind in war where they come to your assistance. Same concept here.

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='02 February 2010 - 04:19 AM' timestamp='1265102378' post='2152872'] Ever since SpiderJerusalem was born, I have supported Polar. I was in ODN during the war of the coalition, and I was furious because we didn't support Polar. Up until Karma, I advocated my support and my friendship. After Karma my respect grew even more and I was glad for the friendship that had evolved. Even when you attacked our MDoAP partners over a week ago, my support and my friendship remained. I told several Polar members of my hope that it would all blow over and that I hoped for the friendship to remain. Internally in Ragnarok I scolded people who spoke up against you and wanted to cancel on you, because I trusted you. I trusted you because of your own past. You [b]know[/b] the feeling of being sold out by your close friends and I was certain that you would always remain by our side. I even pledged my nation in support of you if your reps would be harsh in any way. I was there for you, even when you were not there for me Then you do this. Polaris, I am sad to say that today, you lost a good friend. You lost someone that has been on your side, both in this life and a former. You have not gained an enemy, but again, you will not have a friend in me for a very long time, because what I feel now is the biggest disappointment I have ever felt in my time here. - SpiderJerusalem [/quote] Interesting that you would believe your treaty with NpO would give all your allies a free pass to attack NpO's allies without retaliation. Some support your giving NpO when you're completely disregarding their treaty commitments, why should they care about yours?

[quote name='Bad JuJu' date='02 February 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1265088667' post='2152235'] Valhalla, while I have in the past not shown you a great deal of respect (10v1 dogpile ) I can honestly say I respect your declaration and it took some measure of guts to do it. It's in no way a sure thing for you and most people nowadays walk away from all but sure things. This match up is actually much closer than it appears at first glance. FAN has 199 Nations to Valhallas 83 (Advantage FAN) but... FAN Avg Nation size is 22,700 to Valhallas 31,980 (Advantage Valhalla) but... FAN has 2348 Nukes to Valhallas 901 (Advantage FAN ) and... FAN has 7499 Aircraft to Valhallas 3772 (Advantage FAN) but... FAN has 878 Ships to Valhallas 1166 (Advantage Valhalla) and... FAN is already engaged in 45 wars with IRON (Advantage Valhalla) This is going to be great. Lets get it on! [/quote] It will be interesting to see how it turns out and what those stats will be at the end of this. Looks like it will be a good fight.

[quote name='Tolkien' date='02 February 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1265098553' post='2152830'] What convenience? As convenient as, say, NV, a member of AZTEC, having an MDoAP with GR? Does the fact we also hold treaties with the remaining members of AZTEC (including MDoAPs, though at this time, my memory sucks, so don't ask me to recite a list of treaties) make it any more ironic? Are you saying that if Vanguard signed these treaties individually (and outside a war), nothing would've come of it? EDIT: Really, I'm confused. All I see is Vanguard signing multiple treaties at the same time. This doesn't make any sense to me how this means we ought to dissolve or something. [/quote] When I said maybe CnG shouldn't be MDAP bloc if you're not unified I was referring to the mandatory aggression clause in it, as it really doesn't matter the differences in your views if your going to choose those allies over others regardless of circumstances. Would those who only hold a MDoAP with you ever really be able to expect you to side with them over Athens or any other CnG alliance? I think as long as you are in CnG you will always pick your allies there over others, so whether your views differ from them doesn't matter much.