Cat Land reforms again.

[Kalasin]

Grow a pair and fight people who have the warchests and wonders required to fight back.

[quote name='SWAT128' timestamp='1280803453' post='2399039']
Cat Land officially recognizes hostilities with the Orange Defense Network. This declaration of war on my alliance will not go unpunished.
[/quote]

Last Ditch Effort harboured no hostile intention towards Cat Land prior to this incident. However, your attack on UPN is an attack on ODN, and thus an attack on us. We are fighting a defensive war.

[Kalasin]

Last Ditch Effort would also like to express its disdain that the maroon senators refused to sanction this nuclear rogue on the basis that he 'used to be an important person on maroon'.

[Sup4l33t3ki11a]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280994983' post='2401536']
Grow a pair and fight people who have the warchests and wonders required to fight back.



Last Ditch Effort harboured no hostile intention towards Cat Land prior to this incident. However, your attack on UPN is an attack on ODN, and thus an attack on us. We are fighting a defensive war.
[/quote]



When did you become a spokesperson for ODN? :blinks:

[jer]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280994983' post='2401536']
Grow a pair and fight people who have the warchests and wonders required to fight back.[/quote]
The Forgotten Arm scoffs at the idea that he should sacrifice a military advantage that has been nurtured and earned over an extended period simply to satisfy your one-sided ideal of fair play (that is, 'we should play fair when my buddies are getting smashed to pieces') whilst engaging in all out warfare!

Let me ask you this: if the tables were turned and Cat Land consisted of a nation with no wonders, no tech, no nukes and a small warchest, would you withhold your own strongest nations because of your strong sense of fair play, or would you smash the enemy into the ground as hard as you could? If the values of honour that you are espousing here are truly as deeply held as you'd like us to believe (and are not simply wielded when convenient as I suspect that they are), then the answer is a no brainer, right?

Edited August 5, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Bones Malone]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' timestamp='1281009245' post='2401588']
The Forgotten Arm scoffs at the idea that he should sacrifice a military advantage that has been nurtured and earned over an extended period simply to satisfy your one-sided ideal of fair play (that is, 'we should play fair when my buddies are getting smashed to pieces') whilst engaging in all out warfare!
[/quote]

Blackgate Prison (formerly CrissCrossApplesauce) recognizes The Forgotten Arm's scoffing and finds the basis for the scoff well-founded, well thought-out, and rational and is terrified of the implications of finding such clear-minded thinking on the OWF.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280995462' post='2401537']
Last Ditch Effort would also like to express its disdain that the maroon senators refused to sanction this nuclear rogue on the basis that he 'used to be an important person on maroon'.
[/quote]
SWAT is still important, except for his stay in SOS

[Megalodon]

interesting decision go for it.

[Locke]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280994983' post='2401536']Grow a pair and fight people who have the warchests and wonders required to fight back.

Last Ditch Effort harboured no hostile intention towards Cat Land prior to this incident. However, your attack on UPN is an attack on ODN, and thus an attack on us. We are fighting a defensive war.
[/quote]
Grow a pair and learn how to coordinate the lower ranks to handle a lopsided battle. You have comparatively infinite resources to one nation, after all.

Alestor harbored no hostile intentions towards Last Ditch Effort prior to this incident, but after seeing how you carried yourself here has made Alestor wish to let the missiles fly. And I'm pretty sure no one cares if it's offensive or defensive. Someone attacks you, you deal with it, end of story, doesn't get much simpler than that.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280995462' post='2401537']Last Ditch Effort would also like to express its disdain that the maroon senators refused to sanction this nuclear rogue on the basis that he 'used to be an important person on maroon'.
[/quote]
And you can impose your own standards on how maroon manages their senate...how, now? If they don't want to, that's that, suck it up.

[quote name='Aimee Mann' timestamp='1281009245' post='2401588']
The Forgotten Arm scoffs at the idea that he should sacrifice a military advantage that has been nurtured and earned over an extended period simply to satisfy your one-sided ideal of fair play (that is, 'we should play fair when my buddies are getting smashed to pieces') whilst engaging in all out warfare!

Let me ask you this: if the tables were turned and Cat Land consisted of a nation with no wonders, no tech, no nukes and a small warchest, would you withhold your own strongest nations because of your strong sense of fair play, or would you smash the enemy into the ground as hard as you could? If the values of honour that you are espousing here are truly as deeply held as you'd like us to believe (and are not simply wielded when convenient as I suspect that they are), then the answer is a no brainer, right?
[/quote]
Pearls before swine, my dear.

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1281028587' post='2401766']
SWAT is still important, except for his stay in SOS
[/quote]
SWAT is still secretly in the alliance, and in fact is secretly guiding us to world domination. But you didn't hear that from me.

[SWAT128]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280995462' post='2401537']
Last Ditch Effort would also like to express its disdain that the maroon senators refused to sanction this nuclear rogue on the basis that he 'used to be an important person on maroon'.
[/quote]

The sanction on orange wasn't enough?

[Alexander The Second]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280995462' post='2401537']
Last Ditch Effort would also like to express its disdain that the maroon senators refused to sanction this nuclear rogue on the basis that he 'used to be an important person on maroon'.
[/quote]


Life goes on, things change, but we will always remember... someday be it tomorrow or a years from now the tables will turn and we will laugh at there misfortune rather then aid them with sanctions against an unjust threat.



[quote name='SWAT128' timestamp='1280979650' post='2401336']
This man gets it.
[/quote]


No he really doesn't...

here is your reason for warring.


[quote name='SWAT128' timestamp='1279952493' post='2387213']
Forums : [url]http://z6.invisionfree.com/Cat_Land/index.php?[/url]


I declare war on United Purple Nations for having people in my range with no nukes. Shame on them.


EDIT: IRC is #CatLand on coldfront
[/quote]


Here is locke's profile link - [URL=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=338829] Locke[/URL]


out of 8 wonders he has not a single war wonder... no mp, no sdi... 30k NS...


[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1279988782' post='2387473']
My guesss is a lot of people can use this CB.
[/quote]


Which also applies to nations like your own.

So... are you just a UPN hater, or a hypocrite?



Ps; the name is changed now locke, feel free to look me up ingame

pps; swat your money will run out sooner or later... either way we will still be here throwing our eager younger nations at you, and when all is said and done you have only increased our activity and given valuable war time experience to player that otherwise had none.

So thanks

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1280995462' post='2401537']
Last Ditch Effort would also like to express its disdain that the maroon senators refused to sanction this nuclear rogue on the basis that he 'used to be an important person on maroon'.
[/quote]
That's kinda hilarious logic. But it's par for the course on Maroon.

You should just count yourself lucky they didn't launch a war against you for requesting a sanction on someone they like.

[jer]

There's nothing wrong with the logic at all and it's pleasing to see a senator with a degree of colour-based independence who is willing to stand up for himself. If the maroon senators believe that Swat128's long service to his colour in the past is more important than a few weeks of roguery then I can understand why a sanction request from a foreign power over a relatively minor issue would be denied. It's about showing a respect for a ruler's history, and not simply branding them as the ultimate evil because they attacked a few people for a few weeks of an almost 1000 day existence.

No alliance is entitled to sanctions and it shouldn't be a formality that they are granted out of hand. If ODN or UPN or anyone else wants sway over maroon they should either have a good relationship with them, offer an incentive, or be prepared to use force. There shouldn't be an automatic 'yes' just because it's an alliance v independent ruler situation and alliances are used to simply rounding up on the lone ruler in the past because it was the easy thing to do. There are always other circumstances to consider before attacking the trade and aid of a nation and it's nice to see maroon being thoughtful about it.

... assuming that the stated reason for the denial of a sanction is the actual reason, and that it's got nothing to do with a few alliances simply taking the opportunity to thumb their noses at a few other alliances, obviously. I'm just going to have faith on this one.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Kalasin]

On the contrary, Aimee Mann, senators should represent their spheres responsibly and sanction nuclear rogues as a service to this entire community, with the expectation that should an alliance on their own sphere need a sanction on a different sphere, that their willingness to co-operate would be reciprocated.

[Archmage]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281102860' post='2402673']
On the contrary, Aimee Mann, senators should represent their spheres responsibly and sanction nuclear rogues as a [b]service to this entire community[/b], with the expectation that should an alliance on their own sphere need a sanction on a different sphere, that their willingness to co-operate would be reciprocated.
[/quote]

Some would say that it is SWAT who's doing the service to this entire community.

When my alliance was jumped by purple rogues, UPN not only didn't sanction them but they protected them.

Pull up your pants, your hypocrisy is showing.

[quote]If ODN or UPN or anyone else wants sway over maroon they should either have a good relationship with them, offer an incentive, or be prepared to use force.[/quote]

Now that is how it's done.

I'm still looking for an answer to: Was ODN called in, or just jump in on there own?

Edited August 6, 2010 by Archmage

[SWAT128]

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1281078216' post='2402520']
Life goes on, things change, but we will always remember... someday be it tomorrow or a years from now the tables will turn and we will laugh at there misfortune rather then aid them with sanctions against an unjust threat.






No he really doesn't...

here is your reason for warring.





Here is locke's profile link - [URL=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=338829] Locke[/URL]


out of 8 wonders he has not a single war wonder... no mp, no sdi... 30k NS...





Which also applies to nations like your own.

So... are you just a UPN hater, or a hypocrite?



Ps; the name is changed now locke, feel free to look me up ingame

pps; swat your money will run out sooner or later... either way we will still be here throwing our eager younger nations at you, and when all is said and done you have only increased our activity and given valuable war time experience to player that otherwise had none.

So thanks
[/quote]


I'll put Locke on my list next.


But honestly I don't need a reason to declare war and I don't give a damn what you think about it.

[jer]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281102860' post='2402673']
On the contrary, Aimee Mann, senators should represent their spheres responsibly and sanction nuclear rogues as a service to this entire community, with the expectation that should an alliance on their own sphere need a sanction on a different sphere, that their willingness to co-operate would be reciprocated.
[/quote]
Senators have a duty to their spheres before the wider world so in my opinion maroon are acting responsibly in not immediately throwing someone who has helped the sphere to the dogs just because he's giving a bit of bother to a few alliances who aren't able to deal with the terrible, grave threat of a single nation. As I said, it's about respecting what someone has done in the past and putting value on history, and its looking at the moment as though they value their history with Swat128 more than they value their relationship with you. Sorry. To add to this... your suggestion that maroon should play ball now because they might feasibly be upset by another sphere not co-operating in future is just bizarre. It would be plainly hypocritical for them to cry like babies when facing another sphere with a mind of it's own and I certainly don't think they'd act in such a manner. Perhaps you are unfairly projecting your own reaction to this situation onto others, maybe.

At this point I have to express my dismay at how your values appear to be shaped around your own personal convenience above all else. Firstly, you thought the right thing to do for strong nations was to only fight people of equal abilities and never use their advantages against the weak, but only when they are attacking you - if the strong nations are members of the ODN, they are of course exempt from your most principled of rules. And now, with this latest post, you have chastised maroon for not co-operating for the good of the community - a noble enough sentiment by itself, sure, but not when you go on to make the threat that you yourselves could potentially refuse to co-operate with maroon in the future as a retaliatory move! What happened to the good of the community being at the forefront of your convictions? Did it disappear in favour of a petty retaliatory stance? Why yes, I think it did!

Edited August 6, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' timestamp='1281100562' post='2402653']
... assuming that the stated reason for the denial of a sanction is the actual reason, and that it's got nothing to do with a few alliances simply taking the opportunity to thumb their noses at a few other alliances, obviously. I'm just going to have faith on this one.
[/quote]
You should remember that these are the same guys who launched a war against an ODP bloc on the basis that one nation ruler that had formerly been a member of one alliance in it had requested a sanction on someone they liked.

Your faith is misplaced.

[jer]

And here I was judging a situation on it's own individual merits

[ShadowDragon]

So now maroon caused the entire LoFN War? Thats some pretty big biased revisionist history you got there. Also I believe there was a lot more to that whole mess of drama then that. Anyways we all know you've been holding some sort of massive grudge/obsession on Xiph/GOD and the LoFN War for these last 2 1/2 years but do you really have to bring it up at like the most random moments remotely related to them? Edited August 6, 2010 by ShadowDragon

[wickedj]

[quote name='ShadowDragon' timestamp='1281113685' post='2402811']


So now maroon caused the entire LoFN War? Thats some pretty big biased revisionist history you got there. Also I believe there was a lot more to that whole mess of drama then that. Anyways we all know you've been holding some sort of massive grudge/obsession on Xiph/GOD and the LoFN War for these last 2 1/2 years but do you really have to bring it up at like the most random moments remotely related to them?
[/quote]
maroon is evil and terrible

SWAT, dont hurt the purple people too bad

[SonOfHoward]

Shame on you UPN. May you feel the wrath of CAT LAND!

Any CATLAND nations selling tech can PM me in-game. I pay first.

[Locke]

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1281078216' post='2402520']
out of 8 wonders he has not a single war wonder... no mp, no sdi... 30k NS...

Which also applies to nations like your own.

So... are you just a UPN hater, or a hypocrite?
[/quote]
There's a good reason I don't have any war wonders; I won't be active enough or have reliable access enough to manage my nation in war time, I'll be stuck in peace mode. Been that way for the last 6 months (read [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Alestor"]my wiki[/url] if you like, it's even in my profile). Doesn't make much sense to stock up on mil wonders when they won't do me any good, now will it? I was around 10K NS 6 months ago without the capability of buying any of the big mil wonders, hence not having any from then. That said, when I am able to properly manage my nation, I'd be glad to take on SWAT if he's still looking for a fight.

I was in Invicta before coming here...let's just say I'm well acquainted with UPN, what after being MDAP'ed to you and all, seeing both your public and private actions.

Any more questions, or are you satisfied?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Alexander The Second' timestamp='1281078216' post='2402520']
So... are you just a UPN hater, or a hypocrite?
[/quote]
Locke's signature is [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=63933"]on this treaty.[/url]

It's kinda sad how little you know about how your own alliance got where it is now.

[Un4Gvn1]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281138679' post='2403219']
Locke's signature is [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=63933"]on this treaty.[/url]

It's kinda sad how little you know about how your own alliance got where it is now.
[/quote]

Not knowing one of more than a dozen signatures from a treaty that sadly went the way of dinosaurs isn't relevant.
Nor is it relevant to know that the downgrade of that treaty was known on the OWF before it was known in the then-current gov offices of UPN. ... but that is just one of the reasons it is a bit sad.

Everyone knows a bit of trivia, Haf.


SWAT, I hear you found fault with not sending CMs before a ground attack? I did the same many times but didn't get to hear from you about it.

[Locke]

[quote name='Peggy_Sue' timestamp='1281150134' post='2403385']
Not knowing one of more than a dozen signatures from a treaty that sadly went the way of dinosaurs isn't relevant.
Nor is it relevant to know that the downgrade of that treaty was known on the OWF before it was known in the then-current gov offices of UPN. ... but that is just one of the reasons it is a bit sad.

Everyone knows a bit of trivia, Haf.


SWAT, I hear you found fault with not sending CMs before a ground attack? I did the same many times but didn't get to hear from you about it.
[/quote]
Not knowing all of them is one thing, but the ministers, most of whom were long serving members of Invicta, is another. I'm like...the only upper gov member that hadn't been there forever. Anyway, I had plenty of contact with UPN back then, but it was before you ever joined. Hell, I think you were in TPF at the time.

Though this is derivating a bit far from SWAT, and as much as I like a good bragging session, I'd best not go any further.