Technology Stats Help

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Still waiting on the reply for the above post, but here's something else.

[pic]

This APC, what RL APC should I base it on? What stats should I use?

Alright, I'm just going to come out and say it: That whole thing is... silly, to say the least.

Problems, as they present themselves:

1: Those missiles. They wouldn't be all to useful, you would have poor aim, hit your own lights, and would rarely be useful.

2: Those Lights. You're not building a WWII anti air gun. You don't want giant spotlights and bright colors on the (Generally) poorly armored thing carrying your infantry. Your precious, precious infantry.

3: That front facing gun. Ehhh, You' only be able to shoot around 180 degrees about the center of the gun. For what would often be your main weapon, you don't want to limit it that much.

4: That big disk thing. I... I don't even understand what that is.

5: Is it flying?

6: Getting men out of an APC should be fast work. I admit I don't have the best viewing angle on it, but you appear to be lacking a more readily accessible hatch for your aforementioned infantry to storm out of.

7: That thing better not be flying

I would suggest going for something a bit more realistic for this purpose (That thing has high potential to kick [bUTTOCKS] in a Sci-Fi RP), you may want to tone it down a bit or find a new pic.

[Uberstein]

I am wondering if it is realistic for me to RP the development and building of heavily armored tanks with mostly carbon nanotubes. The armoring is almost all carbon nanotubes except for the section where it meets internal components and crew's compartments, where it will have Kevlar to prevent spalling from damaging anything or injuring the crew. The tanks will also have 250mm cannons as their main cannons (firing rate is one shell per 11 seconds), which I am not sure if that is realistic or not.

Current autoloaders can fire at about 12 shots per minute.

250mm is artillery, the biggest tank gun currently in development is the 155mm of the T-95.

With modern tank armor, you'll want more than just nanotubes, you'll want some kind of anti-RPG armor (NERA, ERA, NxRA, Cage Armor, Spaced Armor, ect ect), and the main problem with modern tanks is getting the crew to survive the shockwave.

[iKrolm]

Current bunker-busting missiles don't work underwater, right?

[HHAYD]

Current autoloaders can fire at about 12 shots per minute.

250mm is artillery, the biggest tank gun currently in development is the 155mm of the T-95.

With modern tank armor, you'll want more than just nanotubes, you'll want some kind of anti-RPG armor (NERA, ERA, NxRA, Cage Armor, Spaced Armor, ect ect), and the main problem with modern tanks is getting the crew to survive the shockwave.

Would this shock absorbing gel do the trick?

http://heavyglobe.blogspot.com/2009/03/mil...that-stops.html

I also forgot to mention that I am planning on RPing all of those carbon-nanotube armored tanks to have plastic bubble foam insulators filled with argon gas since carbon nanotubes absorb heat about 10x better than copper. A roasted cooked dead crew equals a dead tank.

For the tanks' cannon sizes, do I have to reduce the sizes or is it okay to RP 200-250mm cannons as long as they have slow firing rate?

Edited December 10, 2009 by HHAYD

[Uberstein]

Would this shock absorbing gel do the trick?

http://heavyglobe.blogspot.com/2009/03/mil...that-stops.html

I also forgot to mention that I am planning on RPing all of those carbon-nanotube armored tanks to have plastic bubble foam insulators filled with argon gas since carbon nanotubes absorb heat about 10x better than copper. A roasted cooked dead crew equals a dead tank.

For the tanks' cannon sizes, do I have to reduce the sizes or is it okay to RP 200-250mm cannons as long as they have slow firing rate?

Hmm, maybe. Personally I'm using spaced internal armor and I.L.P. (something I came up with myself) to redistribute and stop shockwaves.

I don't know much about Non-Newtonian fluids. Ask ITDA.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Current bunker-busting missiles don't work underwater, right?

The simple answer, I would say, is probably.

It wouldn't work well. Modern bunker busters are usually built like Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized arrow rounds; Built around a dense core, with an explosive warhead that goes off under a number of situations (After the bomb crashes through a certain number of floors, on a fuse, etc). Because of its high density penetration head, it might (MIGHT) go through water, and be able to detonate just like any other situation, HOWEVER that assumes that the missile doesn't break up on contact with the water (And at the speed it would be going at after falling/ rocketing down, that is a pretty big possibility).

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Would this shock absorbing gel do the trick?

http://heavyglobe.blogspot.com/2009/03/mil...that-stops.html

I also forgot to mention that I am planning on RPing all of those carbon-nanotube armored tanks to have plastic bubble foam insulators filled with argon gas since carbon nanotubes absorb heat about 10x better than copper. A roasted cooked dead crew equals a dead tank.

For the tanks' cannon sizes, do I have to reduce the sizes or is it okay to RP 200-250mm cannons as long as they have slow firing rate?

-Because Uber told you to ask me-

Not really. Though the idea makes sense on paper, the bullet stopping properties of Non-Newtonian Fluids are what make it a poor choice for this situation. When the shock-wave passes through the tank, the Fluid would compress slightly, and become rigid for a moment. That would allow the shock-wave to continue moving, rather than halt it.

On Nanotubes: Yah, you would be best off doing an external armor of nanotubes, in large, replaceable plates, on top of Rolled Homogeneous steel, on top of a thin later of nanotubes on the inside of the tank (Woo, halting spall). That way, you can still add more armor to the outside, making the Nanotubes more of a last resort, best for stopping small arms (And likely RPGs, so long as the next paragraph is taken into account).

You don't want to make the whole of an armored vehicle out of carbon Nanotube at all, really. In large plates, they can deform, and buckle under compression, making a fair risk factor for those inside (The walls of the tank could push in and smash you=Not fun)

Heat absorbency is a good quality that would be maintained by using large plates, also

Cannon Size: I want to say stick with something a real tank has, but, under the right conditions, you could get a 200+ mm gun into a tank. It would be slow to reload, take a lot of room for both the breach and for ammo storage, it would be really freaking heavy, and the recoil could cause damage to the tank its self, but if you come up with some ways around that, it's possible. (But not all too realistic)

Hope that helps (It probably doesn't )

EDIT: Sorry for the double post

Edited December 10, 2009 by Il Terra Di Agea

[Executive Minister]

Alright, I'm just going to come out and say it: That whole thing is... silly, to say the least.

Problems, as they present themselves:

1: Those missiles. They wouldn't be all to useful, you would have poor aim, hit your own lights, and would rarely be useful.

2: Those Lights. You're not building a WWII anti air gun. You don't want giant spotlights and bright colors on the (Generally) poorly armored thing carrying your infantry. Your precious, precious infantry.

3: That front facing gun. Ehhh, You' only be able to shoot around 180 degrees about the center of the gun. For what would often be your main weapon, you don't want to limit it that much.

4: That big disk thing. I... I don't even understand what that is.

5: Is it flying?

6: Getting men out of an APC should be fast work. I admit I don't have the best viewing angle on it, but you appear to be lacking a more readily accessible hatch for your aforementioned infantry to storm out of.

7: That thing better not be flying

I would suggest going for something a bit more realistic for this purpose (That thing has high potential to kick [bUTTOCKS] in a Sci-Fi RP), you may want to tone it down a bit or find a new pic.

For a brief clip that shows what this thing did where I got it from. Skip to 2:23 and watch till 4:00.

But of course it wont fly.

In the show, the round belt of rockets, actually a disk filled with em, on the top is down when not in use, but when its deployed, the entire disk is lifted up by an extendible tubish thing, where they are free to fire in all directions. I can either remove this completely, or delegate it to only on specialized models... i dunno maybe an omni directional smoke rocket launcher for support purposes only mon.

The lights can be scrapped, or as you said, be used in an anti-aircraft/search mission model role. Lets pretend the pic I put up was the fully loaded model... all the goodies on it do not come standard.

The disk thing, beside the turret, is the hatch for the pilots.

Yeah, the way they put the turret blows, but again, we can just say this is a variant model, not standard. This thing was meant for AA / APC work all in one. :S

Its supposed to fly, but of course mine won't. I'll just say the tracks are similar to an M113's, and the armored skirt fully protects them from the sides. Thats why they don't show.

There is a big door in the back, the video shows this near the end.

It won't fly... I promise <3.

[HHAYD]

-Because Uber told you to ask me-

Not really. Though the idea makes sense on paper, the bullet stopping properties of Non-Newtonian Fluids are what make it a poor choice for this situation. When the shock-wave passes through the tank, the Fluid would compress slightly, and become rigid for a moment. That would allow the shock-wave to continue moving, rather than halt it.

On Nanotubes: Yah, you would be best off doing an external armor of nanotubes, in large, replaceable plates, on top of Rolled Homogeneous steel, on top of a thin later of nanotubes on the inside of the tank (Woo, halting spall). That way, you can still add more armor to the outside, making the Nanotubes more of a last resort, best for stopping small arms (And likely RPGs, so long as the next paragraph is taken into account).

You don't want to make the whole of an armored vehicle out of carbon Nanotube at all, really. In large plates, they can deform, and buckle under compression, making a fair risk factor for those inside (The walls of the tank could push in and smash you=Not fun)

Heat absorbency is a good quality that would be maintained by using large plates, also

Well, I discovered that there was a silicon based gel called Beta gel, which absorbs shockwaves so well that it prevented an egg from fracturing after being dropped 72 feet from a building even though it was 1cm thick.

http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-ga...in-72-foot-drop

I could use a really thick layer of that gel, and you get the point.

Here is a slice of the layers in the armoring of the Demolisher tank class:

Gray: Carbon nanotubes

Red: Depleted Uranium

Black: Rolled Homogeneous high strength steel

Orange: High kinetic energy resistant gel

Green: High energy absorbing Beta gel

Blue: Insulating plastic bubble foam filled with argon gas

Purple: Harden and glued plastic sheets/framing.

(The rod in the middle is a wall that separates the compartments in the tank)

Basically, the outer part of the armoring is suppose to protect the internal parts of the tank and the crew from explosions and impacts from shells, missiles, mines, rockets, bombs, you name it.

The middle part of the armoring (the second thickest part of the metal/nanotube section) separates the outer and inner armoring. Its function is similar to the outer armoring, but it serves as a secondary explosion/impact protection in case if the outer armoring is punctured or blown away by an ultra powerful HEAT round. It also stops the outer armoring buckling from explosions and impacts, but if the high kinetic energy resistant gel leaks out of the outer armoring, then the outer armoring will buckle from reduced internal pressure when hit with impacts/explosions.

The inner part of the armoring absorbs all of the shockwaves from the impacts and explosions to prevent excessive rattling, which could injure/kill the crew and damage internal components such as the engine. Its other function is to prevent the middle armoring from buckling inward from explosions and impacts and the crew/internal components from extreme external temperature, allowing the Demolisher tanks to operate in a wider variety of climates without extra air cooling/heating.

The tank's armoring will be very sloped to increase resistance against shells and missiles.

Cannon Size: I want to say stick with something a real tank has, but, under the right conditions, you could get a 200+ mm gun into a tank. It would be slow to reload, take a lot of room for both the breach and for ammo storage, it would be really freaking heavy, and the recoil could cause damage to the tank its self, but if you come up with some ways around that, it's possible. (But not all too realistic)

Hope that helps (It probably doesn't )

EDIT: Sorry for the double post

Would this tank cannon system be able to handle the massive recoil?

Black: Rolled Homogeneous high strength steel

Gray: Automatic shell loading/firing component

Blue: Rolled Homogeneous high strength steel with small holes in it to allow a steady amount of air to escape and has rollers at one edge to allow the inner chamber to shift after each firing

Red: Giant springs

When the cannon fires, the shell would fly forward while pushing the cannon backward. The multiple chambers with springs in them allow part of the cannon that has been pushed back to move backward before being pushed back forward to the firing position by the springs. This would allow the cannon fire larger shells at the cost of a reduced firing speed.

(Not sure how effective at reducing recoil though.)

Edited December 11, 2009 by HHAYD

[JEDCJT]

Well, about time I got around to it.

As you may be well aware about this, I RPed the development of a rail-gun, but it seems that I may have gotten the wrong information (such as height, figures, and stuff) from "flaky" sites. >__>

So...can anyone help me out around here, please? I'm not good with physics. Or science stuff, so...

<___<

[Uberstein]

I have a question, would a overpressure valve help protect a crew in a tank?

My line of thought is this, even if the shot doesn't penetrate, there is a shock wave. I assume it compresses the air and that's how the shock wave travels. Thus, having something that releases pressure from the crew areas when the tank is hit would raise crew survivability.

[Lynneth]

I have a question, would a overpressure valve help protect a crew in a tank?

My line of thought is this, even if the shot doesn't penetrate, there is a shock wave. I assume it compresses the air and that's how the shock wave travels. Thus, having something that releases pressure from the crew areas when the tank is hit would raise crew survivability.

I don't think it'd help a lot. The shockwave compresses the air in front of it, moving it relatively straight. The valve would have to be in front of the crew, towards the shockwave, to do anything.

[Uberstein]

I don't think it'd help a lot. The shockwave compresses the air in front of it, moving it relatively straight. The valve would have to be in front of the crew, towards the shockwave, to do anything.

Hmm, well, I have it near the front of the tank, so that works if it from the front.

I could put more on.

[Lynneth]

Hmm, well, I have it near the front of the tank, so that works if it from the front.

I could put more on.

The valve would need to be right in front of the shockwave to keep it from going anywhere else. So no, doesn't work. It's physics, the shockwave spready as long as there's power behind it.

[Uberstein]

The valve would need to be right in front of the shockwave to keep it from going anywhere else. So no, doesn't work. It's physics, the shockwave spready as long as there's power behind it.

Well, I'm sure it does something, and it's good to have air holes in your metal box.

[Lynneth]

Well, I'm sure it does something, and it's good to have air holes in your metal box.

Yeah. It makes your men have better air and more susceptible to biological and chemical agents.

[Uberstein]

Yeah. It makes your men have better air and more susceptible to biological and chemical agents.

Um, I guess we have different understandings of "vent". Vent doesn't mean it doesn't have filters. O_o

[Lynneth]

Um, I guess we have different understandings of "vent". Vent doesn't mean it doesn't have filters. O_o

A simple Vent is a tube that lets air (or another medium) through. Maybe with a pump, but not necessarily with filters.

For me, at least.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Lynneth

[Uberstein]

A simple Vent is a tube that lets air through. Maybe with a pump, but not necessarily with filters.

For me, at least.

Well, maybe I'm using the wrong word, but my definition of vent is, "Something that has air move through it", it could easily have filters, and I wrote that the Mannerheim has filters.

[Lynneth]

Well, maybe I'm using the wrong word, but my definition of vent is, "Something that has air move through it", it could easily have filters, and I wrote that the Mannerheim has filters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vent

There. Choose yours.

[Uberstein]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vent

There. Choose yours.

Fine, what word SHOULD I use. Though I still don't see a problem with "vent w/ filters"

[Lynneth]

Fine, what word SHOULD I use. Though I still don't see a problem with "vent w/ filters"

You're the englishman. Afaik, there's no special word for "Vent with filters".

[Uberstein]

You're the englishman. Afaik, there's no special word for "Vent with filters".

Exactly, so it's an air vent with a filtration system. I don't see the problem with my terminology.

[JEDCJT]

What, no help?

Ok, I guess I'll be okay with the fact that my railgun will shoot projectiles into outer space.

Edited December 14, 2009 by JEDCJT

[Lynneth]

What, no help?

Ok, I guess I'll be okay with the fact that my railgun will shoot projectiles into outer space.

I don't specify how much power my railguns are supplied with. I just use fusion plants, say "They get enough to fire x kg projectiles y range"

and done.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Lynneth