The Phoenix Federation Announcement

[The fox]

It's called freedom of speech. He can threaten all he wants, it's up to the other alliances to call his bluff. The smaller alliances won't break bloc protocol for his threats. I myself tried using the bloc to threaten AZTEC with, as I found out TPF and RE weren't behind me fully. Guess what? OB backed down and I learned that WOLF is not a great bargaining chip.

Once BG makes the mistake of declaring a war he can't win without WOLF's backup, he will learn that the alliances in WOLF were dead set on remaining to the protocols.

I doubt such a thing will happen, The major leaders in WOLF have enough power amongst themselves to take out the majority of alliances in the game. I am sure that at some point, WOLF will go to a aggressive war, most likely without asking the majority of those who hold the pact at the moment. And what happens if you dont back them up? As history has learned us, those who cant do their job will be taken care of. As in, you will get kicked out of the pact and then beaten into oblivion.

[Mr Cotgreave]

I doubt such a thing will happen, The major leaders in WOLF have enough power amongst themselves to take out the majority of alliances in the game. I am sure that at some point, WOLF will go to a aggressive war, most likely without asking the majority of those who hold the pact at the moment. And what happens if you dont back them up? As history has learned us, those who cant do their job will be taken care of. As in, you will get kicked out of the pact and then beaten into oblivion.

i agree wit Fox. i think most of the members are scared of the leadership like in WWI if they troops didnt go over the trenches they would be shot and this is what will happen to the members or even the small alliance in WOLF

[Emperor Stranger]

I doubt such a thing will happen, The major leaders in WOLF have enough power amongst themselves to take out the majority of alliances in the game. I am sure that at some point, WOLF will go to a aggressive war, most likely without asking the majority of those who hold the pact at the moment. And what happens if you dont back them up? As history has learned us, those who cant do their job will be taken care of. As in, you will get kicked out of the pact and then beaten into oblivion.

WOLF can only commit to an aggressive war with a 2/3 agreement. I don't know how RE or TPF could get away with declaring war on behalf of WOLF. I mean, they could, but they would also have almost no backup. The main reason most of the alliances signed on was for the equality. Without it, WOLF falls apart.

[The fox]

WOLF can only commit to an aggressive war with a 2/3 agreement. I don't know how RE or TPF could get away with declaring war on behalf of WOLF. I mean, they could, but they would also have almost no backup. The main reason most of the alliances signed on was for the equality. Without it, WOLF falls apart.

Not to sound offensive or anything but, you havent had much experience with pacts have you? I can assure you, the bigger people control the pact, not you, you are not equal in the pact. I can assure you, at one point or another, the big alliances in the pact will show their true color, unfortunaly for your own alliance and all those other small ones, by then it will be far too late to do anything.

And with that, I will departure from this, like I mentioned I believe we have strayed off-topic enough by now.

[FurQ]

I don't know how RE or TPF could get away with declaring war on behalf of WOLF. I mean, they could, but they would also have almost no backup. The main reason most of the alliances signed on was for the equality. Without it, WOLF falls apart.

Um, TPF just did it. They hit an alliance half their size (again) and said if anyone tries to help them Wolf will step in. How many votes did BG take to sort that one out?

Edited August 11, 2009 by FurQ

[Mr Cotgreave]

i agree this is a thread about the LE and TPF war not WOLF

[King Death II]

GUYS! I want to make this VERY VERY CLEAR! We chose LE for the simple fact that we have fought them in the past rounds and that they have been one hell of a fight. We love LE for their fighting skills and how they have time and time again proved that they can take any challenge thrown at them. The LE I in this thread is not the LE that I have known from the previous rounds, the LE of previous rounds would post in this thread with a smile and say bring it. I dont know who these new members are that are making LE look bad but if I was LE, I would stop them right now.

Also about the double NS, its not our fault that we out played you guys in the NS game

[The fox]

GUYS! I want to make this VERY VERY CLEAR! We chose LE for the simple fact that we have fought them in the past rounds and that they have been one hell of a fight. We love LE for their fighting skills and how they have time and time again proved that they can take any challenge thrown at them. The LE I in this thread is not the LE that I have known from the previous rounds, the LE of previous rounds would post in this thread with a smile and say bring it. I dont know who these new members are that are making LE look bad but if I was LE, I would stop them right now.

Also about the double NS, its not our fault that we out played you guys in the NS game

So its fine for as long as none complains about it, but when you get a guy that is displeased with this, its all of a sudden important matter and needs a explination? Along with the fact that a persons opinion can be dismissed? The fact that the remainder of LE hasnt posted and been at their normal cheerfull mood is most likely a sign of the distaste with this DoW.

And I assume that this DoW came 24 hours or so after the WOLF pact was declared is just a coincidence right? I mean, it cant be a part of a grand scheme, because that would be outrageous, right?

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[andymac64]

WOLF can only commit to an aggressive war with a 2/3 agreement. I don't know how RE or TPF could get away with declaring war on behalf of WOLF. I mean, they could, but they would also have almost no backup. The main reason most of the alliances signed on was for the equality. Without it, WOLF falls apart.

I think you are overestimating your importance. Reality says, what TPF and RE want, TPF and RE get. Who exactly would they NEED backup against?

I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs, not the likelyhood, just stating fact.

[lonewolfe2015]

Exactly. That's what the game is for, I don't see why no one can comprehend that. The game was built for war, why are people vying for diplomacy? But that's another thing: You are sitting here !@#$%*ing that TPF is attacking LE who is half its size in a war game. Do you honestly expect TPF to declare war on RE just because it's "fair"? When you are the largest and you only have one real competitor, you get problems. (Specially if you are friends with the competing alliance.)

Personally, I don't know if OB will be helping TPF. It is, after all, an aggressive war with no real CB.

Well... actually LE would expect that. As that's what MHA and LE did some rounds ago... just fyi.

[Clash]

Not counting last round where they had a similar track record, heres the tally so far:

Hit MHA with well over 2x the NS

Hit Fark with well over 2x the NS

Hit Noir with well over 2x the NS

Hit LE with over 2x the NS

Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Counting last round, we hit LE when it was over 800 ns average per nation bigger than us.

We didn't ask for help then either - but you guys did.

See a pattern there? Well, there isn't one.

Jeez so many on your alliance have honor and the will to fight, like Ammon.

Why don't you? They're just pixels.

Mad because we spoiled your blitz against RE?

We like to fight and we have to fight someone - and everyone is smaller than us.

So we fight who we feel like fighting.

This time it's you.

[lonewolfe2015]

GUYS! I want to make this VERY VERY CLEAR! We chose LE for the simple fact that we have fought them in the past rounds and that they have been one hell of a fight. We love LE for their fighting skills and how they have time and time again proved that they can take any challenge thrown at them. The LE I in this thread is not the LE that I have known from the previous rounds, the LE of previous rounds would post in this thread with a smile and say bring it. I dont know who these new members are that are making LE look bad but if I was LE, I would stop them right now.

Also about the double NS, its not our fault that we out played you guys in the NS game

Problem is, you guys just survived the round. Everyother alliance in TE that opposes WOLF has been beatdown at least once.

[Mr Cotgreave]

well if MHA, LE, FARK, SWAT, FIGHTIN DIVISION and AZTEC all declared war onTPF and RE the chance are the two biggest alliances would loose

[The fox]

well if MHA, LE, FARK, SWAT, FIGHTIN DIVISION and AZTEC all declared war onTPF and RE the chance are the two biggest alliances would loose

Not really, since WOLF would then become active as its a "defensive" pact. And since the full list of participants in the WOLF pact was never revealed, I would be very surprised if none of the above mentioned alliances arent in it.

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[Emperor Stranger]

Not to sound offensive or anything but, you havent had much experience with pacts have you? I can assure you, the bigger people control the pact, not you, you are not equal in the pact. I can assure you, at one point or another, the big alliances in the pact will show their true color, unfortunaly for your own alliance and all those other small ones, by then it will be far too late to do anything.

And with that, I will departure from this, like I mentioned I believe we have strayed off-topic enough by now.

It's a Q&A thread, so I think we are on topic.

Orbit Black won't be controlled. If it means breaking our good relationship with TPF, then fine. I don't consider being controlled by another alliance a good relationship anyways.

[The fox]

It's a Q&A thread, so I think we are on topic.

Orbit Black won't be controlled. If it means breaking our good relationship with TPF, then fine. I don't consider being controlled by another alliance a good relationship anyways.

Even so, lets say that WOLF wants to go to war, a 3/4 majority vote goes through, but you dont want to go to war. Voila, you've just been controlled to go to war wether you want it or not.

And I would suspect its off-topic since this is a DoW thread, a more fitting place to discuss this would most likely be the thread in which WOLF is announced, maybe not tho. I suppose OP still has the power to lock threads if he/she feels it has gone too far?

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[Emperor Stranger]

Problem is, you guys just survived the round. Everyother alliance in TE that opposes WOLF has been beatdown at least once.

Including Orbit Black which lost an aggressive war against PRI this round.

Not really, since WOLF would then become active as its a "defensive" pact. And since the full list of participants in the WOLF pact was never revealed, I would be very surprised if none of the above mentioned alliances arent in it.

Depends on the CB. And to my knowledge, all the alliances have been announced. That's how I came up with the 38% statistic.

[Mr Cotgreave]

Not really, since WOLF would then become active as its a "defensive" pact. And since the full list of participants in the WOLF pact was never revealed, I would be very surprised if none of the above mentioned alliances arent in it.

well tibs will let power get to his head and soon enougth some alliance wont agree with him and leave and by then WOLF will likly be in a war with no support. but lets see if he does make that support

[Emperor Stranger]

Even so, lets say that WOLF wants to go to war, a 3/4 majority vote goes through, but you dont want to go to war. Voila, you've just been controlled to go to war wether you want it or not.

The alliances in the bloc retain their right not to fight in an aggressive war.

[The fox]

Including Orbit Black which lost an aggressive war against PRI this round.

Depends on the CB. And to my knowledge, all the alliances have been announced. That's how I came up with the 38% statistic.

A post or two after the announcement, It is stated that not all signatories are shown in the announcement.

Even if there is no CB, and I dont see why CBs need to be in TE to start with, you would still be controlled by the majority vote to go to war.

The alliances in the bloc retain their right not to fight in an aggressive war.

You would still be attacked by the alliance, or possibly alliance treaty partners, if war was declared.

well tibs will let power get to his head and soon enougth some alliance wont agree with him and leave and by then WOLF will likly be in a war with no support. but lets see if he does make that support

With most probability, those who leave WOLF will sooner or later get attacked by those who are still in WOLF.

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox

[King Death II]

Problem is, you guys just survived the round. Everyother alliance in TE that opposes WOLF has been beatdown at least once.

Who? WOLF is new. The only wars we have been in this round is Fark v TPF and this one v LE. WOLF was thought up AFTER we fought Fark. I dont see why you guys keep trying to connect this war with WOLF. If WOLF steps into this war when nobody else is attacking TPF and that its a fair fight with TPF vs LE, I will personally leave TPF and fight with LE against WOLF. One thing I can not stand is an unfair curbstomp. The current war against LE is NOT a curbstomp, its not our fault that we out played LE's nations. If you look at the alliance charts, there is only RE that is at our same NS but they are our allies so we cant attack them.

So in summary:

1. Stop baaaaaaawwwwwwwwing about how TPF out played LE

2. Its a fair war, WOLF wont step in, its not a curbstomp etc. etc.

3. If WOLF steps in if none of LE's allies attack TPF, then I will leave TPF and fight with LE against WOLF since WOLF entering the war would be bad first off since its a defensive pact and second it would be dishonorable because it would be a curb stomp and thats not what WOLF is about.

4. Oh and WOLF and TPF support free speech so dont tell us that we ill silence people who talk out against WOLF

Edited August 11, 2009 by King Death II

[Emperor Stranger]

A post or two after the announcement, It is stated that not all signatories are shown in the announcement.

Even if there is no CB, and I dont see why CBs need to be in TE to start with, you would still be controlled by the majority vote to go to war.

Who is forcing us to go to war when everyone else is at war?

You would still be attacked by the alliance, or possibly alliance treaty partners, if war was declared.

Maybe. But I think those alliances would have a bigger problem than the alliances not fighting. You would think they would want to fight as few alliances as possible.

With most probability, those who leave WOLF will sooner or later get attacked by those who are still in WOLF.

Assuming it doesn't fall apart.

Anyways, new thread:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=65880

[The fox]

Who is forcing us to go to war when everyone else is at war?

The fact that a 3/4 vote activates the WOLF pact and thus it goes to war?

Maybe. But I think those alliances would have a bigger problem than the alliances not fighting. You would think they would want to fight as few alliances as possible.

I have seen wars where alliances have attached signatories in a pact when those who were attacked were not involved in the war. Dont think that just because your alliance doesnt start any wars that you will be left unscaved.

Assuming it doesn't fall apart.

How is a few small alliances leaving a pact that has 50% or more of the total NS in the whole game making it fall apart?

[Emperor Stranger]

The fact that a 3/4 vote activates the WOLF pact and thus it goes to war?

The bloc will be at war, not necessarily all the alliances in the bloc. The bloc does not override the alliance's decisions.

I have seen wars where alliances have attached signatories in a pact when those who were attacked were not involved in the war. Dont think that just because your alliance doesnt start any wars that you will be left unscaved.

We may be hit, but ultimately if that were to happen we would immediately drop out of the bloc and declare war on the nation/alliance who committed such an act of fraud.

How is a few small alliances leaving a pact that has 50% or more of the total NS in the whole game making it fall apart?

38% of the total NS. I know, I did the damn math to get that statistic.

[The fox]

The bloc will be at war, not necessarily all the alliances in the bloc. The bloc does not override the alliance's decisions.

If only things worked like that, wouldnt the world be such a wonderfull place? As I am sure you will soon discover, it is now how CN politics work.

We may be hit, but ultimately if that were to happen we would immediately drop out of the bloc and declare war on the nation/alliance who committed such an act of fraud.

Then why are you even in this bloc? If you arent willing to give a helping hand when it comes to war? Are you truely that afraid of losing your infra that you have to buffer up yourself behind several big alliances just so you know you wont get hit?

38% of the total NS. I know, I did the damn math to get that statistic.

Please provide a full list of all alliances involved in this treaty pact then. And dont say that those listed in the initial announcement are all of them, because two posts or so under it, it is mentioned that not everyone who is in it is in the announcement.

Edited August 11, 2009 by The fox