Kroknia Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think for the size of OV and the manner in which the war started(I think there were legitimate concerns on both sides though the NPO, TPF and TORN handled it about as poorly as possible) these are somewhat unreasonable reparations. A lot of LEO probably deserved higher percentages if what R&R got is representative of the bloc as a whole having thrown so much more NS into the first wave to fight for an alliance they had no treaty with. Without full disclosure easily seen(I don't have the time to ask everyone), I can't really complain too much about any of this though. As for Karma looking like an absolute mess with no cohesion... That was clear from day 1 to the last day of the war. I never thought there could be a voice of that madness and Archon's vision, while nice, was never going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethb Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Meercats, if you are going to say !@#$ about my alliance actually know what the $%&@ you are talking about. You have 0 proof that we did anything. Looking at a screenshot does not mean we were actively colluding with them. Edited August 5, 2009 by sethb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Meercats, if you are going to say !@#$ about my alliance actually know what the $%&@ you are talking about. You have 0 proof that we did anything. Looking at a screenshot soes not mean we were actively colluding with them. I'll back sethb up on this. There was no proof for some of the much more serious accusations thrown about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Meercats, if you are going to say !@#$ about my alliance actually know what the $%&@ you are talking about. You have 0 proof that we did anything. Looking at a screenshot does not mean we were actively colluding with them. While I wouldn't accuse you with actively colluding with them, you were at least passively supporting them by accepting the screenshot, and spying on us by viewing it. Oh well, the wars over now, enjoy your reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) It would have happened anyway sure, but let's face it OV colluding with a spy ring certainly gave it a hefty shove along. Or are we still pretending that that wasn't what they were doing? I never said they didn't get a screenshot from someone in a spy ring, not exactly collusion in my book but I'll grant you artistic license. I believe that is public knowledge as is how that information came into Continuum/1V hands also. The point being that the NPO and TORN started the war and lost. Are you going to pretend that did not happen? Those that came in on the defensive side can hardly be ridiculed for receiving reps in a conflict they did not start. The other point is that I'm sure MCXA has clawed reps from downtrodden alliances in the past even after their bloc started the conflict. Or are you going to pretend that never happened either? Hardly a position to be throwing stones from. Edited August 5, 2009 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethb Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 And for all those accusing OV of selfishly taking reps from other alliances who fought along side us, I made sure that we were one of the last to pick our share to make sure the others got what they deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R&R-Viking Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 hurr remember that spy ring we discovered by spying? OV is spies. I'm smug. That's what it sounds like at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meer Republic Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Meercats, if you are going to say !@#$ about my alliance actually know what the $%&@ you are talking about. You have 0 proof that we did anything. Looking at a screenshot does not mean we were actively colluding with them. The screenies of the conversation which your guy had with the Blackstone fella, (and which your guy confirmed were real ) certainly suggested that the screenies in question had been discussed with members of your alliance prior to delivery and weren't a 'dead drop'. That to me suggests a degree of collusion. I'm not saying the way in which this was discovered was correct but neither party is whiter than white. I never said they didn't get a screenshot from someone in a spy ring, not exactly collusion in my book but I'll grant you artistic license. I believe that is public knowledge as is how that information came into Continuum/1V hands also.The point being that the NPO and TORN started the war and lost. Are you going to pretend that did not happen? Those that came in on the defensive side can hardly be ridiculed for receiving reps in a conflict they did not start. The other point is that I'm sure MCXA has clawed reps from downtrodden alliances in the past even after their bloc started the conflict. Or are you going to pretend that never happened either? Hardly a position to be throwing stones from. NPO and TORN did indeed fire the first shots but they did have what could be interpreted as a valid cause. That said it certainly wasn't a smart move. I'd argue that OV did 'start' the conflict. It was going to start at some point anyway sure but they proved to be the catalyst either through accident or design. What's MCXA got to do with anything? Personally I think I've had a total of 50 tech in reps in close to 3 years, I could certainly have had a hell of a lot more if I'd wished. But I'm not arguing about the reps, it's more amusing than anything. My objection was to OV being painted as innocent bystanders who NPO just jumped on for no reason when that was clearly not the case. Edited August 5, 2009 by Meercats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 NPO and TORN did indeed fire the first shots but they did have what could be interpreted as a valid cause. That said it certainly wasn't a smart move.I'd argue that OV did 'start' the conflict. It was going to start at some point anyway sure but they proved to be the catalyst either through accident or design. What's MCXA got to do with anything? Personally I think I've had a total of 50 tech in reps in close to 3 years, I could certainly have had a hell of a lot more if I'd wished. But I'm not arguing about the reps, it's more amusing than anything. My objection was to OV being painted as innocent bystanders who NPO just jumped on for no reason when that was clearly not the case. Umm, the guy I initially responded to was from MCXA and was complaining about OV taking reps. I've taken nothing in reps from over three years, your point? But I wasn't talking about individuals, I was talking about alliances. Whatever your view on looking at a screenshot it was hardly worth launching an alliance war over, which is what NPO and TORN did. Not to mention those accusing OV of spying got their info in the same manner. As far as I'm aware, this thread is about the reps and the people I have replied to have been complaining about the reps. So, getting back to my point, it is a bit rich for a member of an alliance (the guy I replied to is in MCXA) that has clawed reps from alliances they curbstomped in wars they started to whine when an alliance that won a war started by the other side asks for reparations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meer Republic Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Umm, the guy I initially responded to was from MCXA and was complaining about OV taking reps. I've taken nothing in reps from over three years, your point? But I wasn't talking about individuals, I was talking about alliances. Whatever your view on looking at a screenshot it was hardly worth launching an alliance war over, which is what NPO and TORN did. Not to mention those accusing OV of spying got their info in the same manner. As far as I'm aware, this thread is about the reps and the people I have replied to have been complaining about the reps. So, getting back to my point, it is a bit rich for a member of an alliance (the guy I replied to is in MCXA) that has clawed reps from alliances they curbstomped in wars they started to whine when an alliance that won a war started by the other side asks for reparations. On the MCXA thing, my mistake then, you quoted me so I assumed it was in response to my post, never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) On the MCXA thing, my mistake then, you quoted me so I assumed it was in response to my post, never mind. Actually you quoted my post here in your post here. But, yes, mistakes happen. No big deal. Edited August 5, 2009 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I really don't see an issue with the level of reps, as has been pointed out other alliances have done it before so why shouldn't OV receive reps that some determine to be excessive. MCXA, OV, what's the difference? Whether they were an innocent party that were surprisingly attacked and fortunately backed up by other alliances or the bait in a trap set for NPO and promised reward for being so, NPO have agreed to a level of reps in exchange for peace and OV have been allocated those reps by those that they fought alongside. I doubt they've held a gun to anyone's head to get these reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I never said they didn't get a screenshot from someone in a spy ring, not exactly collusion in my book but I'll grant you artistic license. I believe that is public knowledge as is how that information came into Continuum/1V hands also.The point being that the NPO and TORN started the war and lost. Are you going to pretend that did not happen? Those that came in on the defensive side can hardly be ridiculed for receiving reps in a conflict they did not start. The other point is that I'm sure MCXA has clawed reps from downtrodden alliances in the past even after their bloc started the conflict. Or are you going to pretend that never happened either? Hardly a position to be throwing stones from. Actually, reps were demanded by TSO, MCXA's former government, not by Jimmy2e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Actually, reps were demanded by TSO, MCXA's former government, not by Jimmy2e. It says MCXA on the terms. So, I'm pretty sure MCXA received the reps too. Edited August 5, 2009 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eye Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 This thread is not about the CB that started the war. I believe there has already been an 80 page monster about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 It says MCXA on the terms. So, I'm pretty sure MCXA received the reps too. TSO *were* MCXA at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 TSO *were* MCXA at the time. No, MCXA contained people who then formed TSO. Keep spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 No, MCXA contained people who then formed TSO. Keep spinning. I'm not spinning anything, I'm not actually biased in either direction, thanks. MCXA's active membership then is what now comprises TSO. I think the active membership constitutes an alliance, not the vast hordes of inactives and ghosts that now make up MCXA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm not spinning anything, I'm not actually biased in either direction, thanks. Of course not. MCXA's active membership then is what now comprises TSO. I think the active membership constitutes an alliance, not the vast hordes of inactives and ghosts that now make up MCXA. MCXA as an alliance signed off on terms that I linked you allocating them 20K in tech from an alliance they attacked and soundly defeated. No matter how much you flail about, that is on the historical record as an MCXA action. You can't erase it because the leadership at the time moved on at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethb Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think it's hilarious that NPO is claiming we will be prolonging terms by not having enough slots when we have 45 unfilled ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think it's hilarious that NPO is claiming we will be prolonging terms by not having enough slots when we have 45 unfilled ones. I think it was just one guy saying that and he was predicting the worst possible scenario when he did. I wouldn't really take that to be an NPO statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morey 2k7 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think it was just one guy saying that and he was predicting the worst possible scenario when he did. I wouldn't really take that to be an NPO statement. Well we've seen moo post in this thread about us not having enough slots and leading to the terms prolonging, then a few more people as well stating this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think it's hilarious that NPO is claiming we will be prolonging terms by not having enough slots when we have 45 unfilled ones. Actually, 51. You have 76 of 127 foreign aid slots in use, alliance-wide, 48 of them with NPO in them. So far they've sent 2400 tech; at this rate, their tech reps to you guys will be paid in 21 cycles, or about 7 months. I note you're also still receiving reparations from TORN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Well we've seen moo post in this thread about us not having enough slots and leading to the terms prolonging, then a few more people as well stating this. I read Moo's comment as more a statement that they expected aid slots to be open to accept reps and that if they weren't then that should not be used as a reason to extend the terms. Which is fair enough. I didn't read it as him saying OV would intentionally fill their aid slots to extend the terms. Whereas the NPO member I was referring to was floating it more from a conspiracy theory angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Of course not.MCXA as an alliance signed off on terms that I linked you allocating them 20K in tech from an alliance they attacked and soundly defeated. No matter how much you flail about, that is on the historical record as an MCXA action. You can't erase it because the leadership at the time moved on at a later date. I'm not trying to write off anything, I'm trying to allocate responsibility to those who were responsible. Sam and friends were in power at the time, and they were the ones who negotiated the terms with Polar, not Jimmy2e and the group who came to power after TSO left. Just because TSO left MCXA to form their own alliance does not absolve them from the responsibility which comes from their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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