Aiden Ford Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) To first of all present the agreement that Isaac and myself agreed to. [quote name=EM]OOC: Okay, i've sat down with Isaac and Aiden and hammered out an agreement to allow this war to continue on with both parties satisfied about its entry rules since there was a prior issue. 1) This war is to be closed to everyone barring: -Isaac, Kevz, Supercheese and Altarian Republic -Aiden Ford and Graniteknight 2) The Isaac 'side' will be granted a 50% increase (1.5 x Force Multiplier) for the duration of this war, which includes Troops, Tanks, Airforces, CMs, and Navies Good luck to both sides, and I look forward to see this war RPed out to its full conclusion. Let's have us a good war[/quote] Now, to address some OOC from last night. [quote name='supercheese' timestamp='1338867667' post='2977262'] "At this point, The Republic of Cuba is now in a state of war with West Virginia and The Nutmeg empire." Classified A 100,000 man force had been assembled, along with 1000 tanks, 5000 afvs, and the bulk of the Cuban air force. [b]The forces would quickly move and [b]assemble in Florida[/b] then begin moving towards Carolinan territory, eta being 14 hours. The air force would move much faster, 20 squadrons of F-23s armed with 4 AIM-120 Amraam medium ranged air to air missiles backed by another 25 squadrons of SU-35s armed with 16 R-77 missiles. They would fly along the [u]Florida and Georgian coasts[/u] for the majority of the flight, once nearing USC territory they would turn in and head towards the capital to link up with any other friendly aircraft.[/quote] 1. While I do not personally mind Supercheese using Florida as a method of moving forces through the Florida Panhandle into Georgia, I do mind any waivers to their immediate protection being covered by JED/Ty. 2. Fairly Normal Procedure, don't see why people are complaining. [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1338871624' post='2977294'] OOC:Get over it and get ready to rummbleeeeeeee....sersiously though we dont have to OOCly inform you of where our planes will be flying. Jed doesnt have to respond, he could not care ICly.[/quote] Jed does have to respond, it is his territory after all. [quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1338872582' post='2977310'] OOC: I do believe using non-combatant air space as a secure air corridor goes against the nature of this compromise... unless Aiden is alright with that too? In any case, I agree that a new thread would be easier to deal with.[/quote] Considering there were no agreed upon safe zones, this would be spreading the conflict there. If JED/Ty are comfortable with hypothetical inceptions that they would have to leave alone and run its course in their territory thats fine. However if Isaac is attempting to hide behind non-combatants its not fine. Also to address something on IRC. [quote][23:51] <Isaac> btw Executiveminister, I am now at 500 tech [23:51] <Isaac> XD [23:53] <@Executiveminister> okay? [23:53] <Isaac> so I can now haz planes [23:54] <Isaac> without haz arguments [23:54] <Isaac> I can also haz 35s[/quote] You better over the course of the war(Which was declared, and had large campaigns launched when you had your incomplete prototype stage 2001 F-22s) roleplay taking your Old f-22s out of service to upgrade them to full functionality. because if one moment your F-22s in the air are Not Complete, then next they are complete I will renege from all OOC Agreements because of Metagaming to the extreme. As to having F-35/(J-35) sure you can have them, but I hope you fully realize what I am saying by that, because you sure don't have Joint Strike Fighters. Edited June 5, 2012 by Aiden Ford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantWatcher Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Isaac's use of the F-22s is now being reviewed by the GMs so be patient while we sort it. When we make a decision we will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Ford Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I thought it was established that he could use them at the state of where they were at the 2001 tech level, incomplete, and not fully functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercheese Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 just fyi isaac is not attempting to hide behind non combatants i'm just using it has a way to move my troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Ford Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yes, I just don't want the precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Ok, so the tech thing, they were functional they just weren't tested, unless you have proof otherwise. Secondly an issue with MOs post, how the hell is he moving 500,000 troops on to my coast at that speed. Unless you have RPed them being on the border fully armed and ready like cold war style then its impossible. Also what type and how many transport ships are involved in that attack. I will not recognize an air and ground attack like that at that speed. The planes would get there in an hour maybe, but the troops would take days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Ford Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Do you have proof that they were functional? No you do not. The United States Air Force would not sit on their hands awaiting what was supposed to be the God-King Fighter to arrive without good reason, like the fact that many key technologies such as weapons delivery, and dispensing systems were not fully ready until the times of the tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MostGloriousLeader Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Ok, kind of up to date with what's going on. Hey Ford, would you mind if I just RP the capture and interrogation of your sleeper agent or do you want me to use spyrolls for that? Sorry about the tardiness but give me a bit to try manage this from my end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Be aware if Isaac has upped his tech IG then his stats in RP change accordingly. As it has been established IG takes precedance over RP the same works in reverse. If I ended up going to zero tech IG I would need to change my RP stats to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercheese Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1338945418' post='2977987'] Be aware if Isaac has upped his tech IG then his stats in RP change accordingly. As it has been established IG takes precedance over RP the same works in reverse. If I ended up going to zero tech IG I would need to change my RP stats to match. [/quote] Actually thats only to an extent. Because Isaac was not 2005 tech when this war started, none of his equipment is to that level unless he specifically RPs it being brought to that level during the conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='supercheese' timestamp='1338945542' post='2977990'] Actually thats only to an extent. Because Isaac was not 2005 tech when this war started, none of his equipment is to that level unless he specifically RPs it being brought to that level during the conflict. [/quote] Does the reverse work too say I went from 300 tech to 50 I wouldn't have to reduce my RP tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercheese Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1338945761' post='2977992'] Does the reverse work too say I went from 300 tech to 50 I wouldn't have to reduce my RP tech? [/quote] yup. unless all of your equipment were to be wiped out and you had to build new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kingswell Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='supercheese' timestamp='1338945856' post='2977993'] yup. unless all of your equipment were to be wiped out and you had to build new ones. [/quote] Ah I see then. *Puts on stormtrooper armour* "Move along, move along. Nothing to see here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AironthFlamewing Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I dont think it right that Isaac or others can magic up an advance in technology and put it immediately on the front- in real life, WWII America for example, once it hit say 1942/3 the Americans just didn't pull the P-51 Mustang outta their butts and start flying it- new advances had to be manufactured and then brought to the front lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercheese Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='graniteknight' timestamp='1338947627' post='2978013'] I dont think it right that Isaac or others can magic up an advance in technology and put it immediately on the front- in real life, WWII America for example, once it hit say 1942/3 the Americans just didn't pull the P-51 Mustang outta their butts and start flying it- new advances had to be manufactured and then brought to the front lines. [/quote] Heh, he could easily say it was about to go into active use. The real problem would be fitting the F-22s with the advances while hes being pounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='Aiden Ford' timestamp='1338891837' post='2977413'] Now, to address some OOC from last night. 1. While I do not personally mind Supercheese using Florida as a method of moving forces through the Florida Panhandle into Georgia, I do mind any waivers to their immediate protection being covered by JED/Ty. 2. Fairly Normal Procedure, don't see why people are complaining. [/quote] For '1', this will be something that can be agreed upon by Aiden and Isaac. Either use somewhere else to ferry air power into Georgia, or have JED/Ty simply ignore attacks against ferried aircraft. My personal recommendation? Use a different air corridor. [quote] Jed does have to respond, it is his territory after all. [/quote] This is correct. Even with the case of mergers, MDAP treaty partners, etc where this becomes foggy, its generally good practice to have someone like JED at least acknowledge IC that this is allowed. [quote] Considering there were no agreed upon safe zones, this would be spreading the conflict there. If JED/Ty are comfortable with hypothetical inceptions that they would have to leave alone and run its course in their territory thats fine. However if Isaac is attempting to hide behind non-combatants its not fine. [/quote] Yeah, this is a credible concern. [quote] Also to address something on IRC. You better over the course of the war(Which was declared, and had large campaigns launched when you had your incomplete prototype stage 2001 F-22s) roleplay taking your Old f-22s out of service to upgrade them to full functionality. because if one moment your F-22s in the air are Not Complete, then next they are complete I will renege from all OOC Agreements because of Metagaming to the extreme. As to having F-35/(J-35) sure you can have them, but I hope you fully realize what I am saying by that, because you sure don't have Joint Strike Fighters. [/quote] Typically with the case of people using military hardware, it is not unusual to see people deploy previously undeclared RL equipment during wars - within reason. While I don't need to RP the Aeon having a certain kind of shotgun, it'd be safe to assume Principality forces on the ground would have access to such weapons. However, if Isaac is trying to magically convert his fleets of aircraft into F-35s or SU-35's (not sure which), that'd be something different. You guys haven't agreed to a certain point where after you cannot have IG gains affect IC strength. But you cannot upgrade your fleets during a war instantaneously... if Isaac wants, i'd allow something along the lines of a wartime crash course overhaul and implementation of newer aircraft to be slowly deployed over the course of the war - maybe an Ace squadron will get the new machines first... a few posts or X amount of time later, another squadron etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) A double post, but noticing Curristan's post above brought this to my attention. There are two camps here regarding the F-22s. One says that the first flight (1997) for the F-22's is the tech log scale year you need to use them. The other camp says its the introduction year of 2005. Usually, it's been pretty clear of whose tech falls where, but this case has us splitting hairs with the levels of tech involved. We can argue back and forth about how a) If the F-22 flies, then that means X and Y was ready, or b) But wait, I have this and that information that Z wasn't ready! This will be a pain in our collective asses for each and every time such a problem occurs in a war with RL machines. I'd be content with simply KISSing the problem away by simply taking the average of both years (1997 + 2005)/2 is 2001. But the discussions are still ongoing. Unfortunately, the tech log scale was a community voted thing, which I won't be touching with my 30 foot pole unless the proletariat demands we take it down. I'm not sure if I want to be a mean GM and make a ruling one way or the other regarding this multiple year technicality, or making a poll and letting you proles decide. Edited June 6, 2012 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AironthFlamewing Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Just to make a post here- I made comments in the GM's court I wish addressed (also my thing was posted before I saw any of it so if it's redundant I'm sorry) Dzienkuje! Edited June 6, 2012 by graniteknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercheese Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Few things First off i use SU-35s not isaac. Ty did say i could have access over irc... idk if i would also require jed's permission. You can ask ty when he gets on though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AironthFlamewing Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Logs or I won't buy it and that's not just being mean- that's common trust and verify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MostGloriousLeader Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Hey granite, I was trying to find what types of equipment you're using and found it in your newspaper thing. I'm kind of confused as to what you're currently fighting with because I saw the strangest amalgamation of WWII and inter-war equipment, most of it seeming to be inter-war. You rp'ed your aircraft as being inter-war fighters, a dreadnaught based navy and an army using WWII equipment. Are you using that stuff or modern stuff cause you don't list any modern equipment anywhere until this war started. Also, on the F-22 issue I feel that Isaac should probably draw back on his claims there. Personally I've felt that the date of operational introduction should be the mark for what equipment you can use since that is the complete and final product and you'll avoid the mess with nitpicking particular parts of technology which, lets face it, is just a hassle to verify some components and systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AironthFlamewing Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 As I said when I DoW'd y'all are using modern stuff and according to Cent who was GM when I DoE'd as Nutmeg he said I had to use modern stuff if I had to go to war which for me right now holds true- I am using modern equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercheese Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 20:56 Ty Well I'm telling you right now you have access 20:56 Ty However, I accept whatever conditions the closed war brings 20:56 *** Subtleknifewielder left #cnrp 20:56 Ty If it's not allowed, so be it All of #cnrp was there to witness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MostGloriousLeader Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote name='graniteknight' timestamp='1338954958' post='2978083'] As I said when I DoW'd y'all are using modern stuff and according to Cent who was GM when I DoE'd as Nutmeg he said I had to use modern stuff if I had to go to war which for me right now holds true- I am using modern equipment. [/quote] Lol, ok just checking. I'd kind of feel a bit wasteful using a anti-ship missile on a WWI destroyer . I didn't even know you could be forced to upgrade your tech seeing as the opposite is usually the problem but whatever. Might have made for a very interesting conflict. Would you mind just outlining your equipment being used then so we can have a reference of what we're dealing with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AironthFlamewing Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 If you were here for me as Australia its basically all that stuff and don't knock Dreadnoughts I like big naval guns that go boom! that's why I want to shell one of you so bad just for lulz of the booming of guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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