Flonker

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1320480876' post='2839493'] Why would you measure the loss in comparison to raw numbers, that makes no sense. The way I look at it, Legion will take a NS hit, but NSO will literally have almost [i]nothing [/i]left if they don't give in. [/quote] Compared to the almost nothing they have now? They have no incentive to back down now that VE/MK has graciously offered to destroy their enemy.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1320480307' post='2839488'] One question that seems to be keep coming up but never answered (as far as I can see) is What would happen if one party tries everything within their power to peace out, but other side is still unwilling. What is the action going to be? [/quote] Already been answered. Both get rolled, Legion gets rolled harder due to the circumstances.

[quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1320470904' post='2839414'] It is pretty clear that the MK/VE intervention benefits NSO, and furthermore that justifying it based on Tetris' involvement is tenuous, given that Tetris has the opportunity to exit independently of NSO whenever it wants. Nonetheless, the subsequent escalation to a genuine DoW on [u]both[/u] Legion and NSO would be interesting to observe. I presume their treaty partners would be prepared to honour their treaties against such aggression. [/quote] Sure it will. Considering there's not much of NSO hangin out there to be tagged on. Most of the targets will be Legion, and I'm willing to bet most NSO/Tetris targets will only get token attacks. Legion, on the other tentacle, is bracing for the upcoming roll. MK/VE will think of something, [b]anything[/b], to take action.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320467656' post='2839360'] Your fatalism is your biggest failing. Negotiate in good faith, invite in all interested parties to watch. Post to these forums the proceedings. Complete transparency. Don't allow anyone accuse you of not negotiating in good faith. Pressure for an equitable settlement will grow, not just from your allies but others as well. [/quote] Experience, old friend. We've been negociating in good faith. It got us nowhere. And now this. [quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1320468030' post='2839364'] Oh lord, No one deserves that. Trying to organise reps from Legion is too draconian to inflict upon any alliance. [/quote] Remind me of this in a month. I'm thinking this is just a cash grab. Let's see who's right. 50 tech on it?

[quote name='Dagrr' timestamp='1320464357' post='2839317'] Can't say I really appreciate this. Maybe the logic is just beyond me. [/quote] Simple enough, I think. They don't want peace, they want to roll us and our allies. This is just their excuse. I'm reasonably sure if somehow peace [b]did[/b] manage to break out, they'd still roll us to get at our allies. What you're seeing is an extreme case of 'buckballs', a combination of buck fever and blue balls. 'Buck fever', for those of you who were not blessed to be raised as a Redneck-American, is extreme eagerness and anxiety when first going deer hunting. Sufferers tend to shoot at anything that moves. I'm just wondering how much reps they expect to extort from us when this is all over.

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1320459216' post='2839210'] As an outsider, my perception is that is not Legion that is extending the war. I guess they are not asking for reps or anything. Is pretty clear that NSO and Tetris lost. It happens, why not admit it, clean the dust and rebuild. [/quote] We asked for a straight surrender. The only stipulation is that NSO admits defeat. Since we're widely held to be WAE ('Worst Alliance EVAR' as the kids would say), surrendering to us would stick in NSO's craw more than they'd ever want to admit. Thus, 1 month of beatdown for NSO. Tetris refuses to abandon their allies, NSO, on the field so they're stuck too. The Legion won this one. Everybody knows this. So, for our sins (i.e., winning this) we're gonna get rolled.

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1320458546' post='2839191'] I'm not typically in favor of this, but judging by the peace mode situation on the other side, they knew about this crap and are preparing for it. Get your un-engaged nations into peace mode and watch the blue balls swell. [/quote] Ah, pez, I could almost learn to love you.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1320458029' post='2839180'] Ok then they get rolled. Like I said before, I don't think Impero and Tehguy (two very smart people) were dumb enough not to see that coming. If NSO purposely stalls peace negotiations they get rolled. If Legion is doing their best to settle on peace then they get left alone. Now speaking of logic.... MK and VE think ahead before all their moves. MK and VE has made a move. therefore, logically MK and VE thought ahead before this move. It's logic, Tyga. [/quote] And I say MK & VE both know how to do simple arithmetic. They [b]know[/b] this is gonna hurt The Legion more than it will hurt NSO or Tetris. They know this is just a thin excuse to roll Legion. They're just trying to spin this somehow to try to come off as being 'fair and equitable' when anybody with eyes and a hand calculator knows better.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320457204' post='2839165'] You do seem to forgetting that NSO not surrendering, and them being hit, would likely result in their allies being rolled too. To say they have nothing to lose, is a little off base. [/quote] NSO has a grand total of 20 open defensive war slots above 1.5K ns. Not a whole lot to hit there. Tetris is 70% PM, not much to hit there either. All this is gonna do is fill Legion defensive war slots to roll Legion. MK & VE know this, and they also know how to do simple math. Nobody gave us odds of lasting a week. It's been over a month now & we're [b]far[/b] from beaten, so now MK & VE decide to do for NSO what they can't do for themselves - pull off an NSO 'victory' because a Legion victory is just too much to swallow after baiting us for a year & more about being 'WAE'. It doesn't look good to your friends when 'the WAE' not only outlasted you but took you to school.

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1320455992' post='2839119'] We are intervening as a moderating force and you have no basis for claiming otherwise. If our only goal was to put pressure on the Legion, then we wouldn't be threatening the NSO; just because we don't want to meticulously ensure that we inflict equal amounts of damage to the two of them doesn't mean that we're picking favorites. [/quote] Why am I having a hard time believing this when I know how deep your hatred for the Legion runs?

[quote name='Rafael Nadal' timestamp='1320455038' post='2839093'] Why the failure happens is irrelevant to us in our position. It may be relevant to Legion's pride, but we couldn't care less about Legion's pride. [/quote] Just like NSO, the thought of a Legion victory is too much for you to deal with. Thus, you're coming to roll us. Pride has nothing to do with this.

[quote name='JOSEPHIVS MAGNVS' timestamp='1320454716' post='2839080'] If peace is actually achieved I don't think its beneath them to still find a loophole and try to stir up some !@#$ anyways to hit us. So there is no guarantee that regardless of what NSO or Tetris or we do they're just looking for excuses to strike. [/quote] I'm pretty sure the fix is in -- NSO won't surrender or white peace. They've got nothing to lose and everything to gain by just taking the weekend off.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320450385' post='2838973'] You're ignoring the fact that there's nothing left to declare on. [/quote] No, they just hope everybody [b]else[/b] will.

[quote name='Baltus' timestamp='1320450277' post='2838968'] Yes, we're helping NSO by threatening to declare war on them. [/quote] Considering they already know you can't reach them cause we got them all sewed up, they're laughing their asses off at this. Congratulations, you just handed them the war.

[quote name='MisterShadow' timestamp='1320449595' post='2838958'] So lets say hypothetically we offer white peace to Tetris, and NSO on a public forum and then it is rejected you are still going to come after both alliances despite admitting that NSO has lost and white peace is like the nicest thing they could possibly gain. [/quote] Except that NSO ain't gonna tap out. Why should they, when their buddies will do for them what they couldn't do for themselves?

[quote name='illusion' timestamp='1320448648' post='2838934'] Planet Bob doesn't need World Police, and quite frankly, this is between The Legion, Tetris and NSO. This is not coming from a Neutral standpoint, its an act against The Legion and everybody knows it. Some people just can't stand or accept the fact that the Legion has won this war. [/quote] This, plain and simple.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1320447970' post='2838919'] Do you think anyone will be able to hit Tetris once ourselves and MK become involved, if we do? [/quote] Considering they can't hit Tetris [b]now[/b], no. 70% in peacemode, the balance under attack from Legion. And you guys forgot to bring your shoehorns.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1320447739' post='2838911'] NSO has learned plenty this war and their government's conduct throughout this war is a testament to it. [/quote] What they've learned is, if they whine long enough, their friends will bail them out.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1320446617' post='2838870'] Will NSO's allies let it burn more, though? [/quote] Not a whole lot left to burn anymore. [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1320446657' post='2838875'] Mind you, I'm only saying Legion should surrender to NSO if that is what NSO demands for peace. I have no idea what it is that they're asking for. It would be smarter for both parties to just take a white peace and go home, but if one side decides they want to draw this out another 3 days, the other side would be well advised to do what they could to make that not happen. [/quote] NSO has [b]zero[/b] incentive to end this, and every incentive in the world to [b]welcome[/b] it.

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1320445285' post='2838844'] Bwahahaha. That is a good one. VE is intervening on NSO's behalf. You heard it here first! [/quote] Two things to consider here. 1. NSO has very few, if any, open defensive war slots available. Thus, any attack will be borne mostly by Legion. 2. Neither VE nor MK are fans of, let alone [b]allies[/b] of Legion. Both, however, are allies of NSO with less than 2 links of the web between them and NSO. A VE/MK intervention is [b]way[/b] more to NSO's advantage than it is to Legion. All NSO has to do is take the weekend off, and VE/MK will chop Legion down for them. Win-win for NSO. What did NSO promise to our new moral police to get this kind of intervention on their behalf?

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1320433736' post='2838611'] I really don't like this. All you have done is empower NSO to hold out long enough to watch you dismantle the Legion. [/quote] Pretty much how I see it, yeah, considering I doubt NSO has a defensive warslot open ATM. [quote name='Lincongrad' timestamp='1320442223' post='2838786'] They believe that while Tetris was initially in the wrong, they have been punished more than enough. Most Legionnaires agree. Not commenting on the rest of the arguments. [/quote] Pretty much, yeah, but the only thing holding Tetris in this war is NSO. And it's just like NSO to hold back and let their allies stomp us in Legion for them. Expect massive reps demanded from Legion after a week.

[quote name='La Riquea' timestamp='1320430418' post='2838534'] so does this mean that MK and VE are going to attack both Legion and NSO or just Legion? [/quote] Considering that NSO & Tetris are pretty much all sewed up by The Legion, I'd say it's a safe bet that they're just gonna roll The Legion.

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1320178938' post='2836662'] Did you even bother to read what you quoted? [/quote] Did you? NSO is claiming now they never attacked us, which, for this to be a war would have to mean, we attacked [b]them[/b]. Didn't happen that way, and that thread is the proof. But keep up the spin, it's as funny as tossing a live grenade into a roomful of politicians.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1320177741' post='2836635'] NSO did not attack the Legion. They activated their MDoAP in defense of Tetris. And no, I'm not disputing the fact they obviously did provoke this and they aren't exactly winning right now. But stop being such a blind idiot to the basic facts of this war. [/quote] [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105760]Um, no[/url]. But thank you for playing.

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320175060' post='2836612'] I care about it like I care about any other game, in that I always try to play to win, regardless of the circumstances. [/quote] How's that workin' out for ya?