magicninja

Not nearly as fair as making comments without truly knowing any facts about what you're saying, surely.

Nah I'm pretty sure Karma is setting all new dangerous precedents here. Apparently now it's ok to go to demand someone pay for things that happened years ago to alliances you never had anything to do with. It's also ok to not give peace in peace terms. It's also ok to say you are gonna tax the alliance for everything they ever took from anyone in a war and then inflate the number by 8x.

You mean you don;t have at least one example off the top of your head? Then how can you even make a remark like that? Tsk tsk Cata. You're right no amount of talking will make Karma any less full of themselves.

Nah Karma is proving history is made by those who remember it. Which means you guys better be damn careful of the precedents you set here.

Please enlighten me to your examples. Change some to most and you're right. The individual motives is what makes Karma so full of !@#$.

They is the majority of Karma including alliance leaders. Giving a few alliances white peace does not a hero make.

Then why all the cries from Karma leaders that NPO needs to pay for their past injustices? I'm sorry but individual grievances really have no play in the situation. As has always been shouted across these boards history is tied to the allaince. Try asking Mhawk about that.

Karma has absolutely no moral high ground to stand on here. They say now it was never about having better morals than the NPO. So I don;t see why you are even bringing morals into it. Karma has no morals.

Cata I'm not talking about disproportionate punishment here. I'm talking about the alliances making NPO pay for things NPO never did to them. Athens has a good beef. NPO made them give up a lot of tech. OK Athens deserves some. So does OV. How the hell can those other alli9ance be claiming to be making NPO pay for GATO, or, FAN, or GPA, etc. etc. What gives them the right to collect reps in GATO's name? I'm going by majority opinion coming from Karma these days. It used to be more about being moral and doing the right thing. Apparently things have changed.

You need to keep up with the times. Apparently Karma now says they don't care about morality, just winning and winning big.

Where did they ever persecute someone for something that never affected them?

Please give me some examples. also,

The CK thing was mostly Barb's fault if you ask me. That was a Terms violation and he shoulda reported it immediately. I personally didn't like that it was a re-roll that got GATO rolled. Go find the NPO DoW thread from that war and see how I reacted even being a member of TPF at the time. Another key difference is that infraction was committed against Pacifica directly. If they felt the need to respond fine. However, how can anyone in the alliances currently engaged make NPO pay for slights that were never even committed against any of them?

What gives Karma the right to persecute anyone for their past deeds? Who the hell named them the world police? Give me a viable answer to that and maybe I'll accept something Karma has to say on that issue, until then they are full of !@#$

What is the underlying utility per one unit of tech?

I actually found that chart on an earlier page in this thread. I haven't been following the 200+page monstrosity for a few days. So if it was there I couldn't tell you. I can be on IRC in a second. You can find me In GATO, Athens, NSA, or TPF.

I voted pther mostly because to me it's not about supporting NPO so much as it's not agreeing with what Karma was doing. The alliances fighting NPO had every right to do so through treaty obligations. That isn't being disputed. The reps are pretty much where I figured they'd be even if they are high. Karma could really have been the better people here and left me impressed. Yet they continue to put terms into vague writing leaving no guarantees. T me that's what terms are supposed to be. A guarantee. If you do x then y not if you do x then maybe y. How could any alliance really be able to accept on such ambiguous language? There is no reason that Karma couldn't get what they want while making concrete terms.

Anytime Mr. Conrad.

Still you would need to find over 2 and a half billion and another 70k tech just to make it half. You aren't gonna find that much man. You know that. You won't find anywhere close to it but I'll remember this for tomorrow.

You should. Add up all the reps from all the nations combined NPO ever took a rep from. Wait..... we did that already. It amounts to around 800,500,000 (ie under a billion) and around What was it less than 82,100k tech total from probably well over 2000 nations over the course of their existence. You guys wanna take $7 billion and 300 k tech from 180 members? C'mon your proportionality !@#$%^&* fails Matt.

98.2% sure NPO didn't take the whole 14k tech from Athens. Also, ohhhh so now the tech isn't worth anything? Nice 180.

So add up all the nations in all those alliances they collected from. I'm sure it will far outscore what nations NPO has left. I'm guessing well over 2000 nations paid 1/8 of what 180 NPO nations are going to be made to pay. C'mon man think. 2. Exactly. You get less popcorn for a nickle today than you did in '54. So if tech costs more today you should get less than you did in '07. That's going by what Karma is saying anyway.

Yeah but Sparta was never on Red. He's crying about his old alliance being wronged. Is Sparta really prepared to take NPO to zi just for him?

Nobody can force anyone else to disband. We've already been over this.

What happened to Matt Conrad? I figured he'd want to address this since it flies in the face of his justification for taxing NPO 6-8 times the reps they've collected from their wars combined.