Sigrun Vapneir
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Posts posted by Sigrun Vapneir
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Ick those are some nasty images.
Anyhow, bout freaking time, cheers!
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Then I suppose you agree with Sponge that it's not character assassination?
It's all either taken out of context and meant to demonize Reyne, or it's proof that Citadel has an open and secure relationship. You can't really use both defenses.
No, as someone that's read the entire threads from whence most of the screenshots came and has current access etc. , I think both work.
Vox appear to have pulled out the snippets of hers they consider or think someone (?) will consider the most offensive out of context to post. How else could that be described than as an attempt at character assassination or demonisation? Though it seems to have backfired spectacularly.
At the same time it's true Cit has an incredible relationship. It's not just the governments, it's the rank and file membership activity that is key, that other blocs in my experience lack. When there are issues sometimes the base membership of the alliances have to get together and straight out the .govs. Again, in my experience at least, unprecedented.
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The OPs thesis is only absurd because it's garbled. Clearly what the NPO (and the rest of the planet) has failed at is providing the OP with the level of entertainment he feels entitled to.
I wonder if he's feeling more entertained after having posted it?
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Deosina Vult!
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I just don't understand how people of so little relevance and people who get things so wrong draw so much attention. It is counter intuitive or someone is telling porkies.
They are so irrelevant people come on here and seem to start screaming at their top of the voices how irrelevant they are, as though the more they post it and the harder they say it, it just might come true.
Nah. People do that cause they want to talk about something.
It's tabloid CN. For good or ill.
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You know i'm seriously thinking of reading your posts from now on if i want a tl;dr. Basically all i'd have to do is imagine the complete opposite of what you're saying and i'd be getting a pretty good idea on what's going on in the thread.
Caught on to that trick months ago
Also o/ OG.
Finally I wasnt aware Vox Populi was actually at war with the Citadel, although I realise they are at war with OG individually. Spying is an act of war and being a stickler I hope Citadel takes this as such.
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So based on your argument, ur saying that nones should be left alone and never attacked by anyone. If you are all about fairness then you would also agree that if the nones shouldnt be attacked, neither should anyone else. in which case you are saying that the creators of CN shouldnt have put in the war aspect.
"Its their sovereign right to be none and ours to attack them" has nothing to do with violating their rights. We are allowing them to be none. Now, if we were to force them into our alliance, then i could see how you would say that we are violating their rights to be none.
I struck the ooc content. If you want to discuss that, post it on an OOC board. Without it
Yes, morally speaking (this is what the 'should' in your statement indicates) no one should be subject to unprovoked violence. You're saying that force recruiting (using force to make a nation join an alliance) is wrong, but somehow simply randomly attacking them for no reason other than to kill their citizens and steal their money is ok?
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Well if your ally is protecting someone on a ZI list, it is the same thing, no?
I made no claims of legitimacy or otherwise
No, I dont think it's the same thing.
Attacking, even when completely justified, is still not the same thing as defending.
Stating clearly 'I will defend X' is therefore not the same thing as threatening someone with attack.
It's a warning, not a threat.
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I do and it's silly to suggest that that is not. What that translates as is 'If you try to enforce your ZI list we will attack you'. That is clearly pressuring GOD to not keeping him on their ZI list.
I dont think that's really the most accurate paraphrase, Bob.
I'd say it was "if you attack our ally we'll defend them." Which should be noncontroversial and expected.
Some might think that the claim that an entry on a "genocide list" no one outside GOD even seems to have known about is a legitimate cause for war against the alliance that protects that nation. It sounds dubious at best to me, but those who believe that are perfectly free to go to war because of it.
But even if you believe such a thing yourself, you surely cannot simultaneously claim it would be illegitimate for allies of the targetted alliance to stand ready to defend it?
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Starfox: Just because someone has done evil in the past is no reason to be rude on the occasion of their doing something good. Neither does one good deed erase a long history of foul ones, of course. But there is a time and a place.
Slayer, I salute you. You have done good this day. An entire nation has been delivered from genocide, and whatever you have done before, whatever you do after, no one will ever be able to take that away from you.
O/
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But the seperation of real world from CN beliefs is absolutely neccesary. In real life, i would cringe to even think of 1 man rule of an (essentially) socialist group. But in CN, that is not only the norm, it is what WORKS. Socialism has found its home on Planet Bob!
Umm no, that's monarchy.
Socialism doesnt work in any world.
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That last condition appears unconscionable.
Oh well, congratulations to all involved.
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Unavoidably OOC: If you want to talk about the OOC issues please do it in an OOC forum. Moderation did a great job reordering the forums recently to make it clear which is which. Instead of respecting that poster after poster here pollutes the IC discussion to the point where over 90% of the thread is obviously OOC. You're drowning the topic in noise. FFS please start showing a little respect for the game and knock this crap off.
/me listens in for a bit, and again wanders off again muttering something about 'nutters.'
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Native Ethics
We catagorically reject nonsense ideologies based on nothing more than wishful thinking. You've seen the alliances built on strange doctrines not native to CN, and how they have failed. Ideals like Leftism, Anarchy, and Direct Democracy have brought alliances and rulers to destruction time and time again.
The simple fact is, CN is not a very good simulator of "Earthly" political states of affairs. Just because you fervently agree with a philosophy there, that doesn't mean it'll work in practice here. It may be troubling to admit that your cherished ideals have no effective place here; but it's better to discard them than to let them lead you to ruin, which in turn makes them look bad. There is also some satisfaction to be found in developing an effective ethic "from scratch," as it were.
The first lesson every Tyberian must learn is to shed our prejudices in this regard. But it's not just full-scale ideologies that apply here, such as socialism or democracy; more subtle, ingrained assumptions also must be identified and rejected; such as, the importance of rights, the efficacy of free markets, the source and purpose of justice, and what terms like fairness, virtue, and morality actually mean here.
In order to succeed in CN, you have to be prepared to rebuild your entire system of (in-game) morality up from ground zero. Because frankly, if you're not willing to do that, then you're not ready to start taking CN seriously.
This is very true, and I've argued it to no avail many times before.
This is one (of many) reasons why it's important to play the game IC, and to separate your RL self from the character you play here.
The circumstances in cybernations are not the circumstances in the real world. There are similarities - but there are also differences. In the end it's an entirely different environment, entirely different rules, and thus workable strategies are not the same.
Until someone grasps that basic truth deep down in their bones, it's like they're living in a world that's half hallucination.
I miss El Bruc too
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/me frowns at all the strange references to nonexistent things and places and people, mutters "nutters" and walks back out.
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Congrats!
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Vox really, really wants these alliances, especially the Citadel grouping, humbled. And yes, that includes secondary/roll-down signatories like Fark, RoK, RIA, etc.
There, fixed that for you.
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Oh come on. Can you people please quit posting IC threads in the OOC forum.
It's almost as annoying as people bracketing their prose with [OOC] in this forum.
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ROFL.
No wonder all my targets have quit logging in. Must be demoralising to have Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf as your alliance leader.
Thaisport took the hardest blows in the war without complaint, all you can do is whine and moan and post outrageous lies. Fail leadership = fail alliance.
Please though, dont surrender, and try to get your guys to log in and collect at least once more this round, ok? This has been great fun and it would be a real shame for it to end prematurely for lack of targets.
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Beautiful treaty!
I might add that Third.v looks redundant to me:
As I understand it, said clause doesn't imply anything not already implied by the Neutral signatory's DoN, and it becomes automatically ineffective should the Neutral signatory's DoN be changed to allow senate runs.
Why the need for the clause, then?
This clause requires any neutral alliance to vacate the senate should any obligation of the treaty, either as signed or by future amendment, be determined to be in conflict with their neutrality.
My read at a glance at least.
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Right now I am bored, and would be even more bored were I a member of the Continuum. I'd be just as bored as a member of FAN or GOONS though.
It's not the rest of the worlds job to keep you entertained.
If you're bored maybe you should find something to do besides sitting around here whining about the treaty web.
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I think this is the absolute truth... Almost everyone who has led a large alliance should agree. Frankly, when you have 600+ nations and 2+ years of history to protect and serve, you make decisions slightly different than you do for an alliance of 15 dudes who came together last week. Sad but inevitable I think.
Inevitable, yes. But sad?
Hardly.
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I do remember the Squinj episodes however. I am a bit confused however. You were distraught about what was happening to WCR, not about what happened to Squinj? Squinj is the one that got punished and displayed how little free speech MHA had.
Free speech doesnt mean your words dont have consequences. Rights bring responsibilities.
PARTICULARLY when you hold a high position in your alliance government and your words can and will be thus attributed to your alliance in general.
Freedom of speech != license to crap all over everyone around you, to destroy what others have built because you are bored.
He was impeached and removed from office properly and legally, WCR followed due process and did it all by the book which meant this sucked a tremendous amount of time and effort from him, and I guarantee you it was no fun. But he did the right thing all the way through... only to see the fool immediately RE-ELECTED to the same position.
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No, because a bunch of TOP's allies are at war with us, besides, NPO spies on pretty much everyone, and they are at peace with most alliances.
Someone allied with TOP being at war with you != TOP being at war with you. This is so fundamental it's astonishing you really seem to think you can slip that by.
You claimed you dont spy on alliances that are at peace with you then posted screenshots proving that you do. (Ironically, the same screenshots fail utterly to prove the allegation you made against TOP.)
Also, do you have any evidence of this NPO spying or are you just hoping that if you keep repeating the assertion over and over again somehow that will make it true?
Edit: "You" here being used in the plural to Vox in general, not necessarily Nintenderek personally.
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Siberian Tiger Alliance Announcment
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
Now that was a burn.