TehChron
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Posts posted by TehChron
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Whose job is it to define correctness? Claiming it is yours is a sign of complete and total arrogance.
Considering how the IAA was reformed, you have serious balls criticizing us over this. I mean really...gutting TGR? Thats kiiiinda hypocritical, as thats more or less exactly what CIN got declared on by Polar over, innit? IAAs reformation actually fits closer to the definition of "poaching" as CB than what we Sith have done here.
Thought it might be worth pointing out.
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I don't disagree, I just wished the appology given was at least half sincere or legitimate. It sounds more like the appology is in regards to the content of the messages rather than the act of recruiting from another alliance...
Weve never said that recruiting from other alliances is wrong. Its just that the tone and text of the messages was shameful and abhorrent, and should be apologized for. Frankly speaking, it was a slap in the face of those alliances, and as TDO has shown quite well, GPA and GOP and others werent limited to being quite as classy as theyve been about this in their possible responses.
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Yeh, and you know what would be least redundant...issue a blanket appology to all the alliances you recruited from in one thread.
What's done is done. Cant undo whats already occurred, hence the apology.
And considering everyone else got an apology, GPA deserved one as well, even if it was unnecessary. So...Yeah. Thats about it.
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Where's the public appology to TDO in a new thread?
TDO got an apology in their own thread.
Redundancy aint cool, yo?
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Just by saying something is unnecessary turns people off. It gets into one's head.
Its a shame you have such a low opinion of people's critical thinking skills, then. I tend to think folks are capable of knowing when an issue doesnt need to be commented on.
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But you are trying to discourage debate by saying it is "unnecessary" and that they "really have no place in this issue." Don't you find it weird that you wish to change norms while trying to keep this one?
Perhaps it was just Heft expressing his hope that a simple apology wouldnt transform into another [ooc]56 page thread[/ooc] abomination. And therefore uninvolved parties would just leave it be.
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I'm sure it'll always make a difference, Starfox.Well, this apology is better than the one you gave to us in Great War One. Barely.You're a liar, Ivan, and this apology is terrible. We all know you aren't sincere and don't regret it. Unfortunately, your fanboys will still think you're literally a god, and hail everything you do while condemning anyone else who does stuff like this.
You're just as bad as you were back in the day. I'll always keep a watchful eye on you.
Listen, Ivan actually did not need to give this apology. Thats been said several times already. He did it because he wanted to. Thats a definition of sincerity right there. If you have a problem with it, thats funny, because I dont see what you have to do with the folks this apology is directed to.
Besides, Rebel Virginia already gave the NSO BTA's full political support. Are you suddenly contradicting him now? OMGBTADRAMAZ.
You guys werent allowed to riot back thenYou seem to miss ODN, who was under your jackboot at the time (as you were NPO, not saying you still are tongue.gif).
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No, it wasn't. People RIOTED over Polaris's foundation.
The current Emperor of the NPO signed petition against Polaris receiving a mask even, and many of us were in arms against them.
Don't claim a standard where none existed. If you weren't around back then, please don't try to talk to about it.
Ah...What exactly is your point here?
He is actually correct, and I personally was around back then. Sure folks rioted (GATO under Chris_Kaos
and NAAC...Thats about it) but everyone pretty much went along with it since NAAC was being destroyed and it was viewed as important to have one dominant alliance per color sphere back then.So yeah, Polaris was formed off poaching under far more harsh circumstances, but if you want to talk about the justification of that entire war, Ill be happy to knock you around with why PWII was entirely justified. If you want to talk about poaching, well, theres your answer right there about why theres some acceptability for poaching (I believe the line is drawn by Polaris in "Poaching from the alliance while a member" which I believe some folks who invoked Polaris' example were guilty of themselves *cough*Chimaera*cough*).
Well, aside from the stuff covered, I really cant see any other possible points of contention you bring up.
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The fact of the matter is, you are acting like you own, control and run the game, by doing things which the majority find completely unacceptable. You can twist it any way you like, but this is precisely what got NPO to where it is now.
We arent acting like we own the planet. Were acting like we dont care what you think.
Colossal difference.
L2Hyperbole
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To the contrary, everyone else evolved their game ethics, and you lot haven't. This is why people don't like you.
NSO is the ones acting like NPO here. Shall they continue, I am sure they will get the same thing that NPO got.
I dont recall us actually DOWing anyone without any real CB or faked screenshots.
Nor us going out of our way to say we own the red sphere.
Or killing any alliances.
Yeah, hyperbole doesnt quite cut it. As a matter of fact, enforcing standards upon others is actually more of a hallmark of the NPO than pushing the envelope either was. Either you possess no idea of what you're talking about, or do something to enforce your standards and veiled threat.
We have our Sith Code, thats ethics enough and to spare for everyone else here. As I said before, learn to not Hyperbole.
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That "certain point of view" argument only gets you so far. Beyond that you enter the realms of moral and ethical relativism respectively and then its a short trip to Francoism.
I know its long, but Im sure you can manage.
Besides, its common knowledge the only one who knows what Francoism is is actually Vladimir. Clearly that analogy is a straw man.
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Up until now I've concentrated primarily on the controversy and even more or less stated that this whole thing was a flash in the pan. I'm sorry if NSO feels as though they are "too cool for the room". The past month they have lost around 250,000 NS (or about 9%) in peace time conditions. Granted its hard to do well on Brown Team, but that's the challenge they accepted.
Now my position on all this: Recruiting from another alliance as blatantly as this shows absolute and complete disrespect. It screams, "we not only don't care what you think, but would you mind holding my jacket while I hit on your girlfriend?"
OOC: Done for the same reason. To see the look of indignation on the other guys face. I believe we've accomplished our somewhat obvious objective spectacularly. Feel free to not see the obvious.
What exactly is the difference between morality and ethics?Is it immoral? No. It is however as unethical as the day is long.
We don't care period, actually. The only replies given to the Citadel "saber-rattling" has been unanimously "bring it". Hardly what Id call fearYou can only pull such a stunt if you figure that those you are doing it to will not react violently. If called on it by others, you make an apology you don't mean and plan your next maneuver. TDO went the passive aggressive route. Different but let's be honest, teaches NSO nothing in particular and it goes away in a couple of days. NSO is more concerned about members of Citadel alliances coming in here and rattling sabers than anything a non-aligned alliance is going to say.Ah, yes, and for those who hold me up as some kind of example of how folks were being held up, congratulations [ooc] You fail to meet California's standard for reading comprehension for High Schoolers. I am quite serious, look them up.[/ooc] Clearly the fact that I said using myself as an intermediary is easier and more efficient than getting ahold of Ivan on IRC is obfuscating.
And no, I dont set policy for the NSO. Nor does Cheyenne. Heft, however, does. So you all fail at the obfuscating argument. Perhaps you should look at our charter next time you try to claim that were not directing you to the folks with actual policy making power?
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Its a little difficult to keep track of around 5+ NSO member posts and who said what. If you could link me to the post you just looked up I would appreciate it.
Having all the answers really is a burden
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Is government sponspored mass PM recruiting from non-neutral alliances ethical or a cause for war?
If you can answer yes, and no, to those questions respectively I will be happy to give an explanation.
We already have. In fact Heggo was even so kind as to reiterate the reasons several times throughout the thread.
I guess you are mixing up more than your own posts, then.
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I'd be tempted to join the NSO if you could tell me how might I save my pregnant girlfriend who I am sure is going to die in childbirth. Naturally, I'll end up killing her myself, destroying all motivation for joining, but I will nevertheless still join.
Skills you would learn...
But not from a Jedi.
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I do not think anyone ever said there was precedent. As I told Chron, a CB's validity does not have to be based on precedent.
But what I told you was that admitting that it is not precedented is contradicting what you've said earlier in the thread about it being a long-established CB. I am only commenting on the double standard you are espousing rhetorically.
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Is there another incident in which a government sponsored recruitment of an entire alliance took place though? I cannot remember anything of this nature, most often it is some new recruiter sending messages to nations erroneously found in a mistaken search and/or a new natino who joined an alliance immediately.
Then clearly it is not a valid CB if it is some kind of a new phenomenon introduced by us. You're contradicting yourself here, Ender.
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Try sending the recruiting message to any of the sanctioned alliances and see what happen. You are arguing a double standard here. Apparently, it is ok to recruit from neutral alliances because they are neutral.
We DID apologize for that, and assumed the matter was over with.
It was the OP that decided to kick us while we were down.
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Actually, I was merely asking a question.
Such a concept may be foreign to someone who always has the answer to everything.
Sometimes I feel its a curse
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Thats left for you to worry about.
I dont think you frankly are in any position to make comments we should be taking seriously to begin with.
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I was under the understanding that Ivan is the only person authorized to make decisions in NSO's behalf.
Can lower government officials make alliance policy as well?
Lower government officials making policy? Where did this happen? Surely you dont mean the Dark Council that is empowered to act in Ivan's behalf by the charter. No way.
Surely you're making a legitimate point here. Please elaborate, Id love to see this example of someone overstepping their authority.
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Good call.That TDO and others were refusing to accept the reality that you can not continue negotiations after they have ended is hardly our fault. Especially when they indicated their agreement with that view to begin with.
Well, I guess your sense of how diplomacy works is somewhat skewed after all. That tends to happen with amateurs.
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Oh cry me a river.
We didnt start this fight, as we had clearly negotiated and considered the matter settled.
That TDO and others were refusing to accept the reality that you can not continue negotiations after they have ended is hardly our fault. Especially when they indicated their agreement with that view to begin with.
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Oh dont give me that crap. You wanted to raise your own strength by poaching from the "weakest link" in the cyberverse. An alliance that has no treaties and is all on its own while you can fall back on your MDP partners should this turn out to evolve into war.
You're no better then the school bully always picking on the weakest kid on the yard.
No, we're Sith. We actually are far more brutal than mere children. Please don't insult us.
That being said, how on Earth do you reconcile your first point with the "OMGZ conspiracy theories!!!" that are running rampant in this thread, at times quoted and referenced by you?
I just dont see how you can say that with any logical consistency.
and NAAC...Thats about it) but everyone pretty much went along with it since NAAC was being destroyed and it was viewed as important to have one dominant alliance per color sphere back then.
An apology to the GPA
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
/torch
How many you got left that are willing to take you seriously? I mean, attacking Ivan because he has the balls to not hide behind a victim complex like you seem to do constantly is pretty specious logic there.
As Sponge said, critical thinking is important. If you think that the ones acting like tyrants are the folks who are being told to conform upon threat of violence...You seriously need to take a step back and try to use critical thinking.
Listen, to all of you who dont like the apology and say its insincere.
Take a hike. Just because this isnt the apology you want doesn't mean it isnt sincere. And frankly speaking, I dont see how any of you peanut gallery types are even relevant to the discussion. Especially in light of the epic Tangent Starfox began with his line about "disappointment in voxians in frostbite" etc, etc.