Igumen

Is this like a dating service for nations? If not, then it should be. Imagine Match.com, but for countries - matching up countries based on ideals, age, government type, religion, etc. No need for all these recruitment drives, just get "CN-Harmony" to suggest alliances for a country based on key criteria. Dates could be held on IRC. Anyway... friendship and peace are brilliant. Greatness, as you define it, is more like zeal - which can be just swell or an absolute disaster, depending on what you're being zealous about. Clearly, the only thing for which zeal is appropriate is the Christian Gospel and love for Jesus. Everything else is swivel-eyed fundamentalism

[quote name='Mijinion' timestamp='1355166853' post='3062435']I'm now a fondling nation...[/quote] Oo-er...

There is only One worthy of the name "Alpha and Omega": the Lord Jesus Christ [i][b]"who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."[/b][/i] All those nations who abide in Christ and His commandments share in the "Alpha and Omega", regardless of their alliance affiliation. [center][img]http://www.nikolaitsai.us/photos/IndexFolder/Pantocrator/Christ_Pantocrator.jpg[/img][/center] That said, over three years for this alliance is not bad by Cyberverse standards. o/

[quote name='Tom Riddle' timestamp='1355089136' post='3062188'] No. Just no. [/quote] You tried, Winner, and I can totally understand why you're getting so many nominations on this thread.... you have made an impact on this game, and the forums in particular. But for a new player to just come here and recognize Winner12345 as a "worthy candidate" for having "the balls to stand up to you guys"?? No, that's not the reason Winner/you are being nominated, and I don't believe that a new, objective, player would think that by reading Winner's posts and the stuff he got up to. Plus, you don't appear as a visitor to Winner's profile page, which I would imagine is the first port of call for someone wanting to "look this guy up". So that's what gave it away. The Harry Potter stuff and the swipe at an irritant of the Republican party confirmed it for me (though I had to look up Sandra Fluke and Tom Riddle first, because I'm otherwise ignorant of Harry Potter and American politics). Other than that, your posting style was different enough[color=#ff0000][b][size=5]*[/size][/b][/color] from Winner12345 to be almost convincing. So, like I said, it was a nice try. [color=#ff0000][b][size=5]*[/size][/b][/color]Although your high posting-rate is also quite distinctive.

[quote name='Tom Riddle' timestamp='1355070841' post='3062120'] I looked this guy up. To me it looks like he would be a worthy canidate...[/quote] Hah, welcome back Winner12345; looks like you finally got to RP Harry Potter on here.

The cause for war appears to be that you were "ghosting" Anarchy Inc. This means that you have joined an alliance without asking permission, and then started wars under the banner of "Anarchy Inc." If this is true, then I am afraid your war-mongering has brought this catastrophe upon your nation's suffering people. You will remain in devastation until you change your alliance to "none", to an alliance that wants you, or until you create your own alliance. It will also help if you change your national religion to Christianity, as the Cross of Christ protects those who trust in its life-giving powers.

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1355019861' post='3061989'] weird to see someone associating with the Cathars get on folk's case about heresy. [/quote] I am not associating with the Cathars (whoever [i]they [/i]may be; OOC hint), but [i]catharsis[/i], which is a key component of the orthodox Christian spiritual life. Plus, I didn't specifically refer to heresy, as heresy is something that begins within the Church, before going its own way and separating itself from the Christian Faith. Freemasonry may be opposed to the Christian faith, despite protestations to the contrary, but it never denies that it is a [i]separate[/i] organization from the Christian Church, and always has been. Other that those misconceptions, the rest of that line contains salient points, Auctor.

[quote name='Igumen' timestamp='1354911914' post='3061507'] [b]Christians of Planet Bob, and more particularly confessed Christians of the Grand Lodge of Freemasons, please read the following statement, offered in love.[/b] [size=5]Official Statement of the Bishops and Abbots of the Free Land of Cathari regarding Freemasonry:[/size] [size=6]F[/size]reemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: "Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them;" Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries; "the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis; in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe! "Such a link between Freemasonry and the ancient idolatrous mysteries is also manifested by all that is enacted and performed at the initiations. As in the rites of the ancient idolatrous mysteries the drama of the labors and death of the mystery god was repeated, and in the imitative repetition of this drama the initiate dies together with the patron of the mystery religion, who was always a mythical person symbolizing the Sun of nature which dies in winter and is regenerated in spring, so it is also, in the initiation of the third degree, of the patron of Freemasonry Hiram and a kind of repetition of his death, in which the initiate suffers with him, struck by the same instruments and on the same parts of the body as Hiram. According to the confession of a prominent teacher of Freemasonry Hiram is "as Osiris, as Mithra, and as Bacchus, one of the personifications of the Sun." "Thus Freemasonry is, as granted, a mystery-religion, quite different, separate, and alien to the Christian faith. This is shown without any doubt by the fact that it possesses its own temples with altars, which are characterized by prominent teachers as "workshops which cannot have less history and holiness than the Church" and as temples of virtue and wisdom where the Supreme Being is worshipped and the truth is taught. It possesses its own religious ceremonies, such as the ceremony of adoption or the masonic baptism, the ceremony of conjugal acknowledgement or the masonic marriage, the masonic memorial service, the consecration of the masonic temple, and so on. It possesses its own initiations, its own ceremonial ritual, its own hierarchical order and a definite discipline. As may be concluded from the masonic agapes and from the feasting of the winter and summer solstices with religious meals and general rejoicings, it is a physiolatric religion. "It is true that it may seem at first that Freemasonry can be reconciled with every other religion, because it is not interested directly in the religion to which its initiates belong. This is, however, explained by its syncretistic character and proves that in this point also it is an offspring and a continuation of ancient idolatrous mysteries which accepted for initiation worshippers of all gods. But as the mystery religions, in spite of the apparent spirit of tolerance and acceptance of foreign gods, lead to a syncretism which undermined and gradually shook confidence in other religions, thus Freemasonry today, which seeks to embrace in itself gradually all mankind and which promises to give moral perfection and knowledge of truth, is lifting itself to the position of a kind of super-religion, looking on all religions (without excepting Christianity) as inferior to itself. Thus it develops in its initiates the idea that only in masonic lodges is performed the shaping and the smoothing of the unsmoothed and unhewn stone. And the fact alone that Freemasonry creates a brotherhood excluding all other brotherhoods outside it (which are considered by Freemasonry as "uninstructed", even when they are Christian) proves clearly its pretensions to be a super-religion. This means that by masonic initiation, a Christian becomes a brother of the Muslim, the Buddhist, or any kind of rationalist, while the Christian not initiated in Freemasonry becomes to him an outsider. "On the other hand, Freemasonry in prominently exalting knowledge and in helping free research as "putting no limit in the search of truth" (according to its rituals and constitution), and more than this by adopting the so-called natural ethic, shows itself in this sense to be in sharp contradiction with the Christian religion. For the Christian religion exalts faith above all, confining human reason to the limits traced by Divine Revelation and leading to holiness through the supernatural action of grace. In other words, which Christianity, as a religion of Revelation, possessing its rational and superrational dogmas and truths, asks for faith first, and grounds its moral structure on the super-natural Divine Grace, Freemasonry has only natural truth and brings to the knowledge of its initiates free thinking and investigation through reason only. It bases its moral structure only on the natural forces of man, and has only natural aims. "Thus, the incompatible contradiction between Christianity and Freemasonry is quite clear. Freemasonry cannot be at all compatible with Christianity as far as it is a secret organization, acting and teaching in mystery and secret and deifying rationalism. Freemasonry accepts as its members not only Christians, but also Jews and Muslims. Consequently clergymen cannot be permitted to take part in this association. I consider as worthy of degradation every clergyman who does so. It is necessary to urge upon all who entered it without due thought and without examining what Freemasonry is, to sever all connections with it, for Christianity alone is the religion which teaches absolute truth and fulfills the religious and moral needs of men. Unanimously and with one voice all the Abbots of Cathari have approved what was said, and we declare that all the faithful children of the Church must stand apart from Freemasonry. With unshaken faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ [i]"in whom we have our redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our sins, according to the riches of His Grace, whereby He abounds to us in all wisdom and prudence" [/i](Ephes. 1, 7-9) possessing the truth revealed by Him and preached by the Apostles, "not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in the partaking in the Divine Sacraments through which we are sanctified and saved by eternal life, we must not fall from the grace of Christ by becoming partakers of other mysteries. It is not lawful to belong at the same time to Christ and to search for redemption and moral perfection outside Him. For these reasons true Christianity is incompatible with Freemasonry. "Therefore, all who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Savior which were weakened by ignorance and by a wrong sense of values. The Assembly expects this particularly and with love from the initiates of the lodges, being convinced that most of them have received masonic initiation not realizing that by it they were passing into another religion, but on the contrary from ignorance, thinking that they had done nothing contrary to the faith of their fathers. Recommending them to the sympathy, and in no wise to the hostility or hatred of the faithful children of the Church, the Assembly calls them to pray with her from the heart in Christian love, that the one Lord Jesus Christ [i]"the way, the truth and the life" may illumine and return to the truth who in ignorance have gone astray."[/i] [right][size=2]Adapted from: Freemasonry: [url="http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx"][b]Official Statement of the Church of Greece (1933)[/b][/url][/size][/right] [b]To the rest of the Grand Lodge of Freemasons I congratulate your survival in the cruel climate of the Cyberverse, and pray that you continue your existence on this rapidly dying world at peace with your own conscience and without fear of the Truth and Light, incarnated in the person of Our Lord Jesus Christ.[/b] [/quote] [quote name='Arno Minion' timestamp='1354934053' post='3061601'] How dare you sully our thread with your negative views. At least your information is up to date; 1933?! I'll save you for later when I need some target practice. [/quote] I will first respond to the accusation of "negativity". I replied to this thread in the knowledge that Freemasonry itself espouses the noble virtue of: [i][b]"[standing] upon the religious, political, social, and economic Rock of Truth."[/b][/i] That being the case, I assume that those who join the Grand Lodge do so out of a desire to fulfil this noble ideal. My posting was simply to reach out to those people within freemasonry who, out of zeal for the truth, had jumped into an organization that is fundamentally opposed to the truth, and uses lies (specifically about advocating "freedom of religion") in order to trick people. I am not here to offend people, but merely to reach out. Some will respond and be moved to at least question freemasonry by these words, some will ignore, some will oppose. It is merely done to help people in the Grand Lodge who might be under false pretenses. I doubt you would want "lukewarm" members in your Lodge any more than they would want to be there if they realized the true nature of the GLOF. In short, I am not attacking people but opposing falsehood. No one person needs to be so bound up in falsehood that an attack on lies is an attack on them. Only pride prevents a "letting go" of damaging teachings. It is sad, though unsurprising, that you would respond to "views" (your words) that challenge the ideals of your alliance with military aggression. It is said that [b][i]All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. [/i][/b]It is impressive that on being confronted with this "new" (for you) truth you exhibited the first two stages in one post by both ridiculing and threatening violence. The last stage will take longer of course. I wonder how "initiated" you are in Freemasonry when you mock my source material being from 1933. Freemasonry prides itself on how ancient its teachings and way of life are. This being the case, then 1933 is hardly out-of-date. If you wish to argue that the information [i]is[/i] out of date, and that Freemasonry has changed since the 1930s, then you are undermining one of the claimed strengths of the Lodge: its age and unbroken succession of "secrets" (though after so many years, there is nothing particularly mysterious about the masons). Either Freemasonry is ancient - in which case the year of the statement is unimportant - or it is not, in which case you lose one of your main "selling points".

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1354917030' post='3061524'] Why do people do this? [/quote] The poster is named after Konstantine XI, the last ruler of the Byzantine Empire before the Fall of Constantinople in 1453. Fighting to the last, the brave king with a shout cried: "The city is fallen but I am alive!", before flinging off his armour and plunging into the Turkish Horde, never to be seen again. After the battle, St Constantine's body was never found, even though the invader's sultan, Mehmed II, scoured the city so that the superstitious ruler could be convinced of his enemy's death. The body undiscovered, the legend grew that Constantine did not die, but was taken into the very rocks of Constantinople, so that he may rise again at the God-ordained time in order to set right the terrible injustice of the Great City's fall. Resurrecting threads is nothing for this man.

I remember the good old days of Ahayweh; Cybernations has really gone downhill since its demise.

[b]Christians of Planet Bob, and more particularly confessed Christians of the Grand Lodge of Freemasons, please read the following statement, offered in love.[/b] [size=5]Official Statement of the Bishops and Abbots of the Free Land of Cathari regarding Freemasonry:[/size] [size=6]F[/size]reemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: "Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them;" Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries; "the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis; in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe! "Such a link between Freemasonry and the ancient idolatrous mysteries is also manifested by all that is enacted and performed at the initiations. As in the rites of the ancient idolatrous mysteries the drama of the labors and death of the mystery god was repeated, and in the imitative repetition of this drama the initiate dies together with the patron of the mystery religion, who was always a mythical person symbolizing the Sun of nature which dies in winter and is regenerated in spring, so it is also, in the initiation of the third degree, of the patron of Freemasonry Hiram and a kind of repetition of his death, in which the initiate suffers with him, struck by the same instruments and on the same parts of the body as Hiram. According to the confession of a prominent teacher of Freemasonry Hiram is "as Osiris, as Mithra, and as Bacchus, one of the personifications of the Sun." "Thus Freemasonry is, as granted, a mystery-religion, quite different, separate, and alien to the Christian faith. This is shown without any doubt by the fact that it possesses its own temples with altars, which are characterized by prominent teachers as "workshops which cannot have less history and holiness than the Church" and as temples of virtue and wisdom where the Supreme Being is worshipped and the truth is taught. It possesses its own religious ceremonies, such as the ceremony of adoption or the masonic baptism, the ceremony of conjugal acknowledgement or the masonic marriage, the masonic memorial service, the consecration of the masonic temple, and so on. It possesses its own initiations, its own ceremonial ritual, its own hierarchical order and a definite discipline. As may be concluded from the masonic agapes and from the feasting of the winter and summer solstices with religious meals and general rejoicings, it is a physiolatric religion. "It is true that it may seem at first that Freemasonry can be reconciled with every other religion, because it is not interested directly in the religion to which its initiates belong. This is, however, explained by its syncretistic character and proves that in this point also it is an offspring and a continuation of ancient idolatrous mysteries which accepted for initiation worshippers of all gods. But as the mystery religions, in spite of the apparent spirit of tolerance and acceptance of foreign gods, lead to a syncretism which undermined and gradually shook confidence in other religions, thus Freemasonry today, which seeks to embrace in itself gradually all mankind and which promises to give moral perfection and knowledge of truth, is lifting itself to the position of a kind of super-religion, looking on all religions (without excepting Christianity) as inferior to itself. Thus it develops in its initiates the idea that only in masonic lodges is performed the shaping and the smoothing of the unsmoothed and unhewn stone. And the fact alone that Freemasonry creates a brotherhood excluding all other brotherhoods outside it (which are considered by Freemasonry as "uninstructed", even when they are Christian) proves clearly its pretensions to be a super-religion. This means that by masonic initiation, a Christian becomes a brother of the Muslim, the Buddhist, or any kind of rationalist, while the Christian not initiated in Freemasonry becomes to him an outsider. "On the other hand, Freemasonry in prominently exalting knowledge and in helping free research as "putting no limit in the search of truth" (according to its rituals and constitution), and more than this by adopting the so-called natural ethic, shows itself in this sense to be in sharp contradiction with the Christian religion. For the Christian religion exalts faith above all, confining human reason to the limits traced by Divine Revelation and leading to holiness through the supernatural action of grace. In other words, which Christianity, as a religion of Revelation, possessing its rational and superrational dogmas and truths, asks for faith first, and grounds its moral structure on the super-natural Divine Grace, Freemasonry has only natural truth and brings to the knowledge of its initiates free thinking and investigation through reason only. It bases its moral structure only on the natural forces of man, and has only natural aims. "Thus, the incompatible contradiction between Christianity and Freemasonry is quite clear. Freemasonry cannot be at all compatible with Christianity as far as it is a secret organization, acting and teaching in mystery and secret and deifying rationalism. Freemasonry accepts as its members not only Christians, but also Jews and Muslims. Consequently clergymen cannot be permitted to take part in this association. I consider as worthy of degradation every clergyman who does so. It is necessary to urge upon all who entered it without due thought and without examining what Freemasonry is, to sever all connections with it, for Christianity alone is the religion which teaches absolute truth and fulfills the religious and moral needs of men. Unanimously and with one voice all the Abbots of Cathari have approved what was said, and we declare that all the faithful children of the Church must stand apart from Freemasonry. With unshaken faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ [i]"in whom we have our redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our sins, according to the riches of His Grace, whereby He abounds to us in all wisdom and prudence" [/i](Ephes. 1, 7-9) possessing the truth revealed by Him and preached by the Apostles, "not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in the partaking in the Divine Sacraments through which we are sanctified and saved by eternal life, we must not fall from the grace of Christ by becoming partakers of other mysteries. It is not lawful to belong at the same time to Christ and to search for redemption and moral perfection outside Him. For these reasons true Christianity is incompatible with Freemasonry. "Therefore, all who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Savior which were weakened by ignorance and by a wrong sense of values. The Assembly expects this particularly and with love from the initiates of the lodges, being convinced that most of them have received masonic initiation not realizing that by it they were passing into another religion, but on the contrary from ignorance, thinking that they had done nothing contrary to the faith of their fathers. Recommending them to the sympathy, and in no wise to the hostility or hatred of the faithful children of the Church, the Assembly calls them to pray with her from the heart in Christian love, that the one Lord Jesus Christ [i]"the way, the truth and the life" may illumine and return to the truth who in ignorance have gone astray."[/i] [right][size=2]Adapted from: Freemasonry: [url="http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx"][b]Official Statement of the Church of Greece (1933)[/b][/url][/size][/right] [b]To the rest of the Grand Lodge of Freemasons I congratulate your survival in the cruel climate of the Cyberverse, and pray that you continue your existence on this rapidly dying world at peace with your own conscience and without fear of the Truth and Light, incarnated in the person of Our Lord Jesus Christ.[/b]

[quote name='Letterkenny' timestamp='1354675425' post='3060474'] EDIT: I clicked on this from the new topic page... I'm pretty sure this in the wrong forum unless you meant an RP alliance of some sort if that is a thing, which I'm not a part of. My bad if that is the case. [/quote] Clearly his "evil nation" is an attempt at role-playing/attention-seeking, so perhaps this is the right board.

[quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354530930' post='3059955'] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]Igumen, you speak as if fortnightly conversions are not common practice on Planet Bob.[/quote][/color][/font] I have no idea what relevance that has to my last comment. [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354530930' post='3059955']Even the Polemarch himself has abandoned Christianity![/color][/font][/quote] That you would think my comments directed at you is [i]de facto[/i] support for Xenios shows that you are mired deep in the delusions of the ideologue. Has it occurred to you that my criticisms of your actions are nothing more or less than criticisms of your actions. Excusing yourself by pointing out what other nations are up to does not help your cause, and should not ease your conscience. [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828][quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354530930' post='3059955'][/color][/font][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]Yours is a lonely crusade indeed.[/color][/font][/quote] You mean the "crusade" on your threads? Yes, they are lonely in that no one else is responding to what you say. I think the total apathy of Planet Bob reflects more upon how nations see your nation than mine. Even you seem to have become bored with updating your reports. I empathize [i]completely[/i] with your boredom. And as you're showing a complete lack of gratitude for me at least giving the appearance that you're not writing about stuff no one cares about, I'll withdraw communications too and see if you prefer talking to yourself.

There is no "correct answer". The outcome of each option is given: choose 1 to increase your population but decrease [i]per capita[/i] income; choose 2 to decrease your population but increase [i]per capita[/i] income.

[quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354401447' post='3059203'] I am not interested in good publicity for our ancient religion, sir. [/quote] That's just as well. In any case, based on what I've read so far, you'll be another religion by Monday.

Hmmm.... unconvincing. And no response to your glorying over the death of a prepubescent boy. Your doing more damage to the Jewish religion by representing it in such a manner than anything spewed out by Xenios. [quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354268026' post='3058503'] OOC: That didn't take long. You think I'd forget with a name like Gabriel Pope?[/quote] It would be quite foolish to forget, but I can only judge based on what I've read from you so far. So, yes, I think you were entirely capable of forgetting.

For the sake of anyone still reading, I just wish to reiterate that I do not believe the Gospel to be an ideology. That is why it so often succeeds where ideologies like Communism fail. I made a concession that ideologies can be religious, and that you can have "Christian ideologues", and I further stated that they are as misguided as socialist/facist/liberal/conservative ideologues; however, I state with firm conviction that the Gospel is not an ideology. The Gospel is a way of life that can be followed without hypocrisy and with every success, by the grace of God. It can do this because the Gospel speaks to individuals, and provides a way of life for every one of us. Some of us choose to follow it in word and deed, some do not (non-believers), whilst others follow it in word but not in deed (and their fall is lager than the second category). Communism - and any other political ideology - proscribes and prescribes principles for "society" and "humanity". It is this "broad view", that ignores or even spurns the human person as an individual that causes an ideology to inevitably fail. It's not "practical" enough. It provides ideals, ideas, and principles, but the tools to carry them out are not available to most humans (those tools are: absolute selflessness and altruism). The Gospel is practical because it deals with changing the inner-man: and this happens all the time. The means for acheiving this are also given to us: namely repentance, humility, and surrender to God. We can all do this, even if not everyone does. The Gospel even explicitly states that "the world" - the thing that Communism and other political ideologies try to change - is fundamentally corrupt and will not get better through human effort. The only thing it will do is eventually pass away. The Gospel cannot be considered to fail at doing something it never sets out to do! Communism can be considered to fail because what it sets out to achieve - change society - has always failed. This is true of all ideologies, for the reasons I stated above. We are talking about Communism specifically because that is the subject of this thread. I also reiterate that Communism has failed spectacularly badly (in terms of human suffering), which is why its simply not worth experimenting with it again. But apart from that difference, I am as suspicious of Communism as any other political/economical philosophy that promises a utopia. Just wanted to clear that up. I know you won't reply as you've already "let me win"

[quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354174374' post='3058023'][i]An open letter to the people and leader of the Free Land of Cathari, from the desk of Gabriel Pope, commander of the Antipolemarch Militia:[/i] ..[i][b].I was among the first group of Christians [/b][/i]who sought refuge from the intolerant and cruel Polemarch in Armed Society. [/quote] [quote][i]An open letter to the people and leader of the Free Land of Cathari, from the desk of Roland Williams, [/i] Commander Pope, you may recall, [i][b]is a follower of Jesus Christ[/b][/i] who sought refuge in Armed Society when Xenioshian aggression decimated his homeland. [/quote] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114001&hl="][b]Source[/b][/url] [quote name='Armed Society' timestamp='1354174374' post='3058023'] [i]A public address from Gabriel Pope, Commander of the Antipolemarch Militia:[/i] Further, the national religion of Xenios has been changed from Christianity to Norse. [b]We are thrilled that the believers of Jesus, the false prophet, no longer guide Xenioshian politics.[/b] However, we fear that the Polemarch may be slipping further into racist delusion, having converted himself and forcefully converted his deputies and bureaucrats to the ancient Norse religion. [/quote] (Emphasis mine) Just what kind of "follower of Christ" are you? Besides being a hypocritical one. I would also add that, as you appear to be interested in the politics of Xenios, that I'm pretty sure the "king" was a pre-teen and that Polemarch was/is his regent, as the king hadn't yet reached the age of consent. I therefore find your glorying over his death very distasteful. OOC: if you're going to RP, pay more attention to what others say and [u]definitely [/u]remember what you've said, so you don't contradict yourself within a few days.

As you say, that says more about the sort of people who inhabit philosophy forums more than anything else, including philosophy itself.

True, and the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom is perhaps a more important book as it contains Scripture, but also contextualizes it, provides commentary, and also gives us the order of service for the preeminent act of Christians: the Eucharistic Meal (a Christian rite that obviously predates the Bible, as reference is made to it in the Old Testament). A history book is a good call, though history is also subjective and needs contextualizing (arguably the Bible is itself, in part, a history book written in the context of the Christian people, and describing the history of God's interaction with His creation). I suppose all this emphasizes the importance of remembering stories, and the oral tradition. More important than history books is the knowledge of "our"* history, and remembering in our hearts the story of how "we"* came to be. *this can be interpreted as the history of a nation, a faith, or of all humanity. The first two are preferable if the survivors come from the same faith and/or nation.

As 89.5% of statistics are made up, I have difficulty believing your completely arbitrary "75%". In any case, religions have very rarely caused wars, though I admit that faith unfortunately is often used to justify wars and violence. I suppose that is testament to its power. But it's fairly obvious that without religion people would still fight each other. Resources, land, fear of invasion: these are the causes of war, now, in history, and as long as the world remains.

What I have said is that Communism cannot work, for a very fundamental reason. I know I can be a bit wordy, so I forgive you if you've skipped over my reply and not seen the main points amid the waffle. Iwill restate what I said before, but with some pertinent emphasis added: The point is that the ideals you put forward are literally not real. You can state and re-state until you're blue in the face (or maybe red in the face is more appropriate) about what "ideal" Communism is, but the ideal has never happened, and never come close to happening when applied as such. And that goes back to my very straightforward sentence that started this debate: a system to govern society that is only "good in theory" - i.e. only works in an idealized, theoretical, set of circumstances - is not a good system. Theories are good for developing scientific understanding, but politics and economics are all about practicalities. And that is why Communism is absolutely useless. It has failed, and will fail. How can I state this so definitely? Because the flaws that have caused Communism to fail so utterly in the past are absolutely fundamental. Those flaws are the flaws you yourself have stated: human flaws and human greed. Communism can only work if everyone's on board, and quite frankly that will never happen whilst human beings exist as diverse peoples and individuals with there own wants, needs, strengths and weaknesses. All that wonderful diversity needs to be destroyed in order for Communism to "correctly applied". And to do this requires precisely the sort of oppression that you describe as "incorrectly applied" Communism. And that is the Catch-22. Communism is a perfect political and/or economic system so long as you're not a human being. That's a big, fat fail in my book. Do you think people living in industrialized countries are less materialistic and greedy than people living in agrarian societies? Honestly?? I have already stated what the fundamental flaw of Communism is, as I see it, and that fundamental flaw is greater in an industrialized nation than it is in an agrarian one. You choose some poor examples there, as Christian communities still exist in those places and do live peacefully. They are oppressed and persecuted by Muslim majorities yes, but if you honestly believe this contradicts the Gospel then I am not at all sure you've read it. Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake: Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in Heaven. It is the striving to make any "system" work in a "large scale setting" that causes it to inevitably fail. I know you're not reading what I have written if you're still trying to argue this way. No, this is not the Gospel working. This is the Gospel applied as an ideology and failing as a result. Again, you are measuring success in purely materialistic ways (and I will come on to what I mean by materialism further down) Like I say, you keep dealing with non-existent ideal situations, I'll keep bringing up what actually happens. I did go on after this statement to say exactly why this "incorrect" application always happens. It is because of the materialism of Communism as a political ideology. And I promised I' explain what I mean by that, so without further ado: Perhaps this is because you haven't yet come across "Materialism" as philosophy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism Materialism here isn't a synonym with greed or avarice: it is a system of thought that Communism strictly adheres to. You yourself adhere to it with your materialistic views on "success", which skew things so wildly that you believe that the Gospel applied through violence is a successful application of the Gospel-life! The barriers to our communication are fundamental. It will not be solved by you teaching me about what Communism really is, or I teaching you what the Gospel really is. However, the discussion has brought out some important points which may be read by the gallery, and it is to them that I repeat my last comments, which were not addressed by you: Nothing you have said convinces me you appreciate these statements: you have neither agreed to them or disagreed with them: you've simply ignored them. Until they are addressed we are just talking past each other.

I have "Nineteen Eighty-Four" on my bookshelf, and also "Nineteen Eighty-Three", which is an entirely different book and not recommended for children :-/ I hope that a civilization started from scratch by children would not need the warnings given in Nineteen Eighty-Four quite so immediately, and avoid the "Socialist Utopia" described therein. Perhaps Lord of the Flies is more of a useful warning of what could happen. === I would second the Bible and notice that I also have a forager's guide on eating wild plants, herbs, mushrooms etc. I'd say that would have to be included.

Just as an addendum, I will not ignore this point: I hope you're not measuring the "success" of a state on how long it can cling to power. North Korea hangs on manfully as a reclusive Marxist state, but let me be absolutely clear that the mass-starvation of almost the entire population of a country by their own government is the sort of thing I mean when I talk about "catastrophic failure". China is a good country to bring up because I lived there for over 6 years and I have some familiarity of what it's like there. Economically it is not a Communist state. More importantly is that it is less of a Communist state, economically, than it used to be. In other words, China is not a state that's heading towards a pure Communist form of government, but away from it. Painfully slowly in some areas, but inexorably it is heading away from ideal forms of Communism. I am sure you will say Communism has never been "correctly applied" in China, and I would concede that point; however, the worst periods in the PRC's history came at precisely the time when China tried to "correctly apply" Communism. Yes, they failed, but that is my point: it always fails, and fails in quite terrible ways. The Communist Party of China has survived by never, ever, even attempting to try such a thing ever again - and this is how they will continue to survive: opening up its borders, allowing free enterprise, private property, and even encouraging it. As for Vietnam and Cuba I will admit my ignorance of their recent history and current situation. However, are you saying that these governments are surviving by pushing towards a purer form of Communism, or away from it? Could you provide evidence for that, citing recent changes in those nations' government or legislature?