Jack Layton
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Posts posted by Jack Layton
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5 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:
Actually it wasn't brought to my attention that posse was even in the bloc until BMTH talked to me about it (shortly) Saturday night.
And it was a surprise considering a few months prior he asked if M Inc would hit SCOTLAND- however, we didn't have any reason to hit them.
OOC- my relationship with BMTH on the outside is via Skype, which isn't much more personal than IRC
Too lazy to screenshot right now, but I am looking at a post on VG's forums written by Alonso dated on July 1st, nearly two weeks ago, that he told you about this bloc. Your own friend outside the game told you about the bloc.
In fact, you recognized it yourself on July 1st: -
This whole narrative that this bloc posed a threat to Monsters Inc is undermined by the fact that one of the prospective members was POSSE, an alliance that is on friendly terms with MInc and whose leader apparently also knows Hitchcock personally outside of the game (if I understand this correctly). If the goal was to undermine MInc, why would we form a bloc with a friend of Hitchcock's? Why is it that POSSE approached VG to start such a bloc and not the other way around?
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1. MInc wants to disband Scotland for:
-poor choice of tech trade partners
-trying to form a micro-bloc with people who have been enemies of MInc in the past
For posterity here, Junka noted to me in private on IRC that he advised SCOTLAND to NOT join any potential bloc with VG, POSSE, or any other considered alliance on the basis that he perceived us to be prone to war (fair enough). Ironically, this bloc was discussed as means of defending against potential MInc aggression which proved to be a reasonable concern, given the demand that SCOTLAND disband for even entertaining this notion. While it might have been reasonable for MInc to be concerned about the potential of a bloc forming against them given our history of hostilities (particularly before the improvement in our relations), demanding that SCOTLAND disband was unreasonable. Particularly since they aren't exactly a military threat. I'm glad the matter was resolved diplomatically, though I find it funny that Junka/SNX are the ones taking the flak for this when they're the ones who told SCOTLAND not to join with us which is precisely what MInc wanted.
Quote2. Hartfw somehow ends up hosting a peace talk, the end of which results in Scotland not being disbanded in exchange for:
-No joining a bloc for 6 months
-Reevaluating their tech partners
-Apologizing to MInc fpr their transgressions
In the interests of fairness, and I read the full logs of the IRC discussion (though I was not present), nobody actually brought up what exactly these "transgressions" were. SCOTLAND didn't actually do anything wrong and yet were made to apologize. This was certainly preferable to a war that they weren't prepared to fight. And sometimes in this game, unfortunately, might makes right. SNX has a legitimate grievance here, though we advised our allies in SNX that VG does not desire an escalation in conflict and it might be a better course of action to overlook a minor slight in the interests of preserving our strength for a more worthy fight another time. That does not mean we won't fight, but we will make every attempt at diplomacy first. I will also note here that Junka has not yet formally requested VG's military assistance via our ODPoAP even though he is fully entitled to do so, considering the NAP has been invalidated.
Quote3. MInc denies that the disbanding attempt was "for reals"
Perhaps, perhaps not. I won't pretend to know what Hitchcock's intentions were. However, regardless of intent, the threat was taken seriously and MInc made no attempt to communicate that this wasn't a serious threat at any point. Negotiations were conducted under the assumption that war was imminent by the timeline he set in his original thread. Nowhere does anyone from MInc say that this deadline isn't actually in effect, suspended, negotiable, extended, or "not for reals". The effect is the same as if he had intended it.
Quote4. Junka is unhappy with brokered deal. accuses Cowboys of taking MInc's side
See my response to Point 2.
Quote5. Sengoku feels insulted, MInc attacks SNX in violation of NAP with VG
It's a clearcut violation of the NAP. The NAP stipulates that direct military attacks on VG's treaty partners are forbidden (and we have an ODPoAP with SNX). There is no provision for "being insulted", even if it's against the spirit of the NAP. But in SNX's defence, so is threatening SCOTLAND which is both friendly to VG and an ally of SNX. Neither action constitutes a direct violation of the NAP, but it certainly goes against what the NAP was intended to prevent. However, a direct attack on SNX does violate that without question.
Quote6. SNX declares on MInc and Sengoku
By the time SNX posted this, several dozen wars had already been declared on them. They're just acknowledging that the sky is blue at this point.
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The declarations of war by Monsters Inc. on our treaty partners SNX is considered a violation of our recently signed NAP. This was discussed in private on IRC with Lord Hitchcock. VG now considers the NAP to be invalidated on these grounds. However, before the war escalates even further, we will be attempting a diplomatic solution to this conflict and humbly ask that any parties that have yet to enter the conflict (on both sides) refrain from doing so until diplomacy has run its course. While we look forward to further building relations with Monsters Inc and putting an end to all hostile actions between us and our respective allies, we condemn these attacks on SNX as well as any unparliamentary language on their part. In the spirit of a mutual desire to build further relations between us, I ask that those on both sides of the fence keep a cool head and attempt reason and dialogue over war and petty insults.
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A victory for democracy.
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If SNX does any of the aforementioned acts in the stated NAP treaty I listed earlier to Monsters Inc. or any of its treaty partners, I will drop them. I say this because I am confident they are not instigating anything. That's how "causing instability" will be determined. That's declaring war, spy attacks, out-of-game espionage, or aiding whoever they may be fighting (that does not include standard tech deals). In summary:
Non-Aggression Pact Between Monsters Inc and the Varangian Guard
Both alliances agree to refrain from aggressive action towards each other, specifically in terms of military attacks, spy attacks, espionage on each others' forums, AA, IRC, and membership, aiding each others' enemies during wartime (not including standard tech deals), and declaring war on each others' treaty partners. Any of the above actions by either alliance will be considered a violation of this treaty and entitles the other to respond aggressively. Notice must be provided 72 hours in advance to Jack Layton and Lord Hitchcock respectively before this treaty can be effectively canceled. This treaty only comes into effect when both Monsters Inc. and the Varangian Guard have signed it. In addendum: If SNX commits any of the aforementioned acts to Monsters Inc or its treaty partners, Varangian Guard agrees to drop them as treaty partners as soon as they are made aware of these acts. Likewise, if LPC commits any of the aforementioned acts to VG or its treaty partners, Monsters Inc agrees to disassociate with them.
Deal? -
5 minutes ago, President Hardin said:
Now kids, let's play nice
Hardin For Senate
Sanction Lord Hitchock 2016!
Jack, ignoring LH is your best play. Trying to argue with him will only escalate things, and I only have 3 billion left, I would rather waste it on nations that can outdamage me
I respect you a lot, Hardin. And you know personally that I am a man of my word. I'm not arguing here. My offer of an NAP is legitimate (I'm hereby recognizing it as such) and I vow not to break it. What do you say? I'm extending my end of the olive branch.
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4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:
Is Monsters Inc a brown team alliance? I thought Meth was savior of brown?
Don't be ridiculous. I am everyone's Lord and Saviour, including theirs.
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3 minutes ago, Morphine said:
You have it on record that we would honor it. But please for the interest of making this whole conversation worth it, give me 3 examples of Junka destabilizing the brown sphere?
Even better, name one thing that VG has done to Monsters Inc directly. I can name several they've done to us:
- Crapping up our recruitment thread where they threatened us with war
- Getting involved in our peaceful negotiations with Atlas, offering to be their mercenaries
- Actively soliciting our treaty partners to drop us and declare us as enemies
- Disparaging VG in this and several other threads on the OWF -
I won't speak for SNX because I'm not in a position to, but maybe they'll sign one with you too. But at the very least you wouldn't have to worry about VG. You keep mentioning Junka as a problem and myself. Well here I am offering to no longer be a problem and you refuse.
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12 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:
It's not a solution at all. All you've offered was a 'm inc and allies won't hit us'.
It doesnt solve Junka's antagonism or his attempt to destabilize brown
Don't be dishonest. People can read the text of the offered treaty. This NAP is not a unilateral imposition on Monsters Inc. It equally applies to VG. Just as VG won't be able to act aggressively towards Monster Inc. or its allies (not that it has...), Monsters Inc. won't be able to act aggressively towards us. Let me remind you that not only in this thread have you disparaged VG, you also crapped up our recruitment thread here on the OWF and threatened us with war. VG has done nothing to antagonize MInc. Frankly, you're barely even on our radar.
But if it will make the night terrors go away, a NAP at the very least would only increase stability on Brown. There is no possible way that it can harm it. Clearly we have no intention of being antagonistic if we're offering you a NAP for you to sign. Ready made. All you have to do is sign it. What other reason would there be to refuse, unless you intend on acting aggressively towards VG and it's allies, namely SNX, in the future? -
We have no quarrel with Atlas or anyone else for that matter. Here is your chance to end conflict here and now. But you won't take it. Interesting that my crap, weak alliance is such a big, powerful threat that's antagonizing everyone, but nonetheless is offering you a non-aggression pact that will extend to all your treaty partners (and ours). And you won't take it.
That's fine if you won't sign it. But don't go around pretending like VG or SNX is antagonizing anyone when we're offering you a peaceful solution right now and you are refusing it.
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Non-Aggression Pact Between Monsters Inc and the Varangian Guard
Both alliances agree to refrain from aggressive action towards each other, specifically in terms of military attacks, spy attacks, espionage on each others' forums, AA, IRC, and membership, aiding each others' enemies during wartime, and declaring war on each others' treaty partners. Any of the above actions by either alliance will be considered a violation of this treaty and entitles the other to respond aggressively. Notice must be provided 72 hours in advance to Jack Layton and Lord Hitchcock respectively before this treaty can be effectively canceled. This treaty only comes into effect when both Monsters Inc. and the Varangian Guard have signed it.
Signed,
Jack Layton, Varangian Guard, Runner Up of the Manitoba Country Fair Beauty Contest
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Just sign on the dotted line. Only needs your signature, champ. -
VG has made no aggressive moves towards anyone and from what you constantly bleat on about here, I'm terrible at war and have a crap alliance. So which is it? Am I the leader of a small, crap, weak alliance? Or am I the massive, powerful threat that you make me out to be? It has to be one or the other. It can't be both. If I am as weak and insignificant as you say, why bother all this time and effort to plot against me?
Edit: If you are so worried about stability on Brown, I offer you a non-aggression pact here and now, publicly so everyone can see. You can take it and have your stability on Brown and not have to worry about us. What are you waiting for?
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On 6/11/2016 at 8:27 PM, Cazaric said:
Jack Layton, please help.
I, Jack Layton, ruler of NDPstan, Despot of the Etruscan League, Cardinal of the Church of England, Most Feared Pirate on the Spanish Main, Winner of the Employee of the Month, World Heavyweight Champion, Alderman of Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, Almost-Prime Minister of Canada, Leader of the NDP and the Official Oppositon At One Point, Militant Trade Unionist, Latex Salesman, Nude Painter, and Importer/Exporter, hereby recognize Sparta as not only a legitimate alliance, but the true Lacedaemonic rulers of Ancient Greece, its islands, and parts of Asia Minor.
This I sign in the presence of the Spirit of King Leonidas, the rotting corpse of Xerxes, and Shy Pete, the homeless guy at the bus shelter, on this 21st day of June in the year of our Lord two thousand and sixteen. May blessings be upon your children, your children's children, and your children's children's children. -
On 6/17/2016 at 7:34 PM, Duderonomy said:
I need Jack Layton to confirm this is legit.
Confirmed.
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1 hour ago, Oblomov said:
Is that homophobic or just in poor taste?
Both.
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I am an arteest, really.
o/ Kashmir -
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4 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:
feel free to hit m inc...
we know you wont
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Do you like cheating, stealing, fighting, and drinking? Then cheat death, steal women's hearts, fight with brothers, and drink with us! The Varangian Guard is a new alliance looking for mead-drinking, horse-stealing warriors. No academies, no bureaucracy, no BS. Free helmet with horns. B.Y.O.B. Bring your own battleaxe. Join us in-game TODAY! Do it or else Jack Layton will smack your ass with his wooden whoopin' stick. Remember, kids. If you don't like VaG, then you must like PENIS.
http://www.cybernations.net/alliance_display.asp?ID=14688
Imperium Recognition of War
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
Another quote from alonso in POSSE on our forums:
What exactly did Monsters Inc perceive to be a threat to their security? VG which immediately offered MInc an NAP when confronted with MInc's concerns? POSSE which is on good terms with MInc and whose leader is friends with Hitchcock outside the game? SCOTLAND with zero military power? Where is this threat? Where is the antagonism?