[Limitless Nexus Announcement]

I think that LD had a negative perspective of Methrage for whatever reason going into this (warranted or not, irrelevant) and was rash with decisions regarding the original sanction.

I think her alliance mates supported her (because they are stalwart fellows) causing this to be an issue when it shouldn't be.

LD feels attacked and if she admits a wrongdoing it will feel like a defeat and that is not something she knows because she is a proud soul.

While this is an admiral characteristic found on both sides of this conflict, I think it is one we need to bite the bullet on.

This is a stupid issue, we all know that. III% you know you're in the wrong, don't be arrogantly prideful.. just admit the mistake.

Pride does come before the fall and I don't mean that as a threat.. just saying. Don't be mi6.

[The GOP merges into VE]

I forgot VE existed

[A now a word from the militia]

Let's not pretend like this is about hitting protectorates. It's not. If that was the case, the resolution that was originally put forward on the table would have been accepted because MI was willing to meet pretty much every condition for peace laid on the table. Even TSO was ready to accept peace, leaving MI only to deal with Atlas. DS made this whole thing about them and tried to keep LN at war by lying and playing semantics about the legality of their entry, even though it is perfectly valid (and they know it). The only reason there isn't peace right now is because DS wants to keep Methrage and Smurf at war. And neither MI nor War Jesus will allow them to fight alone. Our highest aspiration remains to obtain peace. We will negotiate and sacrifice for it. But we will not surrender and leave our friends hanging out to dry for it. If that means fighting to the last pixel, then Jack Layton is prepared to do that. For on Judgement Day, when all our casualties are tallied before the War Jesus, our War Saviour will know us to be men of honour. Men who would never leave the field of battle with our comrades still engaged.
 
The fact that others would be opportunistic in hitting Methrage while he's engaged on other fronts is completely unsurprising and just goes to show their cowardice.

I urge others to take peace as my plight is longstanding beyond this current conflict but I know it will fall on deaf ears.

I have little to add but I wanted to highlight this underappreciated post. From this day to the end of days you have my sword. But I think you knew that.

[A now a word from the militia]

You're full of BS here and know it. I only wanted cooperation with BC, although speaking with BC at all was likely a mistake. Since its clear now BC never wanted cooperation with a Senator who wasn't in BC and would rather try distorting anything said against me.
 
However I might be willing to forgive if III% & Atlas both want to exit this conflict, as well as admit the sanction on me was wrongly placed and remove it as soon as possible.

I think private channels would be a good avenue to explore before this goes any further here bud.

Also a less hostile tone could do wonders. Though, as always, you are your own person and free to make whatever decision you believe to be best.

[A now a word from the militia]

 
No, it sounds like she's mad because she spent a good deal of time trying to guide Methrage and in turn he farted in her face. 

Her "guiding" was her just telling him not to run for Senate (despite his admin given right to do so) and his "farting" was him running for Senate anyways..

Eh I'll be honest, I think Methrage handled this a little poorly but the bottom line is that BC could've easily just outvoted him or been happy holding 4 seats (if that's all they could muster the votes for) but they instead decided to sanction and attack him and make this into a PR nightmare..

Whose decision it ultimately was to do this is the answer I'm interested in though. I know III% appears to be the face of this but considering my experience with them I think that is more because of an itchy trigger finger rather than decisions with actual malicious intent.

I hope cooler heads prevail but then again I thought they did when we all realized this was a misunderstanding from previous SNX govt.. but here we are.

[The Amazing Sanction Race]

60%s toward our low end.. summer vaca to expiring deals to me dropping AA (since I usually have close to 100% aid slot eff) makes it currently lower than it normally is.

[A now a word from the militia]

How quickly do the freedom fighters find themselves wearing jackboots. What a damnable shame.

We should not condemn the sheep for doing what sheep do but applaud Doomsphere for consistently getting their biggest detractors to do their bidding.

[The Amazing Sanction Race]

It's really telling that 20-man AAs are able to get into the top 40 aid sent/received stats

Telling in what way?

I thought our economy was terrible but 21st for a 20 man AA is pretty good

[A now a word from the militia]

Tl;dr: we claimed brown. Now someone else is trying to claim it so we're attacking them. Stupid jerk(s) tryna claim our shit.

[Limitless Nexus Announcement]

Rigging an election how?

He messaged people not on his AA asking for votes so BC sanctioned and attacked him. Or something like that.

Stupid maroon is so boring. I don't even know who our senators are but I hate all of them

[Popping some Roids]

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. You've been on ignore for months because, based on your inability to reason your way out of a paper bag, I find you to be unbelievably stupid.

I saw what you said because someone else quoted it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, "Don't flatter yourself."

Considering you were the first to quote my post ITT determined that was a lie.

[HGH is better]

If I were raging I wouldn't be using profanity, but thank you for proving you're no better than Jemmm.
 
You're complaining because you call every war opportunism. You reap what you sow.

My opportunism comment was a nod to the parallel nature of the comments ITT and the 'opportunism' one.

I'm truly sorry that the only way you can maintain the semblance of control you have over your sphere is painting me as the boogeyman but anyone who pays attention (which is admittedly very few) knows the score.

I will agree with you though, you reap what you sow.

[Popping some Roids]

 
I was wondering why you hadn't replied, I was going to suggest resyncing anyway.
 
As for your reply, so the screenshots were on IRC (I didn't see them, but I'm not everywhere). Why did they accept the member and make sure Atlas was inflamed by using the screenshots they got? They very well knew who leaked them, and they accepted them. It doesn't matter who had the screenshots when, they should have known better.
 
MInc doesn't seem to have learned anything, considering this is the fourth of fifth blunder in two months. They're not "new and different", plenty of alliances do this sort of thing. The only different part is that Kaskus asserts protection, whereas other alliances that relentlessly screw up are dropped by legitimate alliances and are usually raided away into obscurity.

I have nothing beyond that they did not believe this was an issue because atlas didn't give them reason to believe they were that miffed.

I know what youre gonna say: they should *know* better.. but take a gander at world affairs. There's many leaked screenshots that never have repercussions. Not saying that makes it right but it justifies MInc being oblivious to atlas' war preperation considering no contact from Atlas

[HGH is better]

The phrase of the day is don't piss in someone's cheerios if you can't take the punch to the face you're inevitably going to get. If you're stupid enough to pick 20 different fights, don't !@#$%* and moan when they all come at you. This isn't oppertunism, it's karma, and it's a long time coming. No one should be surprised when we defend our protectorates, like no one should be surprised when we defend our members. If you're stupid enough to whine about it, you deserve it. But if you think for a second that your opinion will actually determine what we do, you're deluded. We play how we play. Don't like it? Get over it or successfully "do something about it". Until then, we'll keep doing what we're doing.
 
Kthxbai

Please show me where I complained?

Your rage is hilarious though.

[Popping some Roids]

I see your points and I think you see mine. I'll bow out of the topic here.

Just poorly handled by all parties involved.

Edit: seems you've posted in the time it's taken me to post mine.

 
Oh come now, you seriously don't believe that? MInc had no idea that accepting screen shots, giving membership to the person that gave said screenshots, and publicly posting said screenshots could provoke a war? I mean, I agree MInc isn't the most intelligent alliance around, but I didn't expect YOU of all people to accuse them of such unintelligent actions.

Those screenshots were all over IRC and I'm sure they didn't think it was a big deal as logs/screenies are posted regularly during wartime.

And I call them stupid on the daily. I do support them however as they do learn from their mistakes and they are one of the handful of alliances that are different in this day and age.

[Popping some Roids]

He was masked as a full member and MInc posted the screenshots, I think MInc has made their position clear. That said, I agree, Atlas should have at least attempted diplomacy first.

He was masked as a full member because he applied.

MInc putting him as a full member wasn't them making a statement in this scenario because Atlas never made them aware that this was a scenario!

[Popping some Roids]

Key thing Smurf is the screen shots got posted to the OWF. That's the CB, a rock solid one. But this doesn't happen if L_H doesnt post them.

That is true, which is why my first line was that LH screwed up.

My point is should the rest of MInc be rolled for the actions of two people?

[Popping some Roids]

All irrelivant and an attempt to obscure the issue.  Their intentions or feelings arent what matters here.
 
We have a series of facts.
 
Fact: Someone took screen shots of Atlas private forums and, acting as a spy passed them on to MI.
 
Fact: MI accepted the screen shots.
 
Fact: MI acceptd the person who stole them into their alliance knowing they stole them.
 
Fact: MI posted said screen shots of an alliances private forum on the OWF.
 
 
Are you complaining MI is so incompetent they didn't realize the above would get a response or be a CB?  I think there are very few alliances who wouldnt go to war with them in these circumstances.  And what hardin was or was not thinking has nothing to do with the poor hcoices MI made.
 
Instead of doubling down with the arogance and spin, MI... and anyone who likes them.... would do a lot better to man up and admit they screwed up. 

First and foremost I will agree with you LH screwed up. Hitting an entire war weary AA is overkill for the situation at hand though.

Those bolded facts are simply not true. In order:

Fact: Hardin left Atlas and joined MInc.

Fact: He told LH that Atlas was going to declare

Fact: LH asked if he had any proof and hardin provided those screenshots because atlas didn't change his mask (and for the record the screenshots are from a Gen membership thread, not a gov forum as people have been saying)

Then your final fact.

I'll give you some other facts:

Fact: Atlas did not approach MInc for an explanation

Fact: Atlas decided to declare on the alliance as a whole instead of the guilty parties.

 
That's all that needed to be said Sigrun, nobody expected you to look at this and accept that MInc was actually at fault as it was clear that you'd unconditionally throw your pseudo-factology of opinions around like candy. The CB is solid no matter how you cut it because MInc is protecting someone who released private Atlas information. Atlas has every right to them the same as everyone would. The type of situation here is the same as a tech scammer, war deserter, or rogue. You don't protect these kinds of people unless you're fully prepared to back it up militarily. You and Smurf have a whopping two options: activate defense clauses or don't. Nobody here is going to look at your attempts to pass off another MInc blunder as something innocent. They do these things on purpose and they don't hide it, why do you try to?

Is MINC protecting that guy? Atlas could have requested to kick him out if they so chose to. But they didnt. They saw a way to win a war on the backs of TSOs (and doom squads) allies and circumvented CN norms

[HGH is better]

War Jesus is an agreement between nations, and doesn't always

I'm sure doom kingdom has no issue with that as they do the same thing on a regular basis, the most recent and obvious example being their reformation of doomsquad to "honor" a treaty in a war that was already heavily favored in the war. The word of the day is opportunism.

[Popping some Roids]

Well its clear, the person that did the spying is in Monsters Inc and a full member. The leader (Hitchcock) shared these over the owf. He had at least 3 options with them, A) He keeps them to himself and prepares for the outcome of Atlas coming in, or it just being a discussion as it was. B) He informs me in private or a member of my gov that these screens it's came into his possession and wants clarification, of what we are doing and what we are going to do with the spy. Or C) Do exactly what he did and post them on the owf for all to see and give anyone the clearest cb in a long time. So all in all its because he is housing the spy and decided to show he has them and share them on the owf.

I understand your perspective but it still doesn't address my question: do you believe MInc was maliciously spying on you or just receiving information from a disgruntled member?

Do you believe hardin was passing information to MInc prior to leaving atlas or do you believe he chose to go to MInc because he was mad at you and decided joining MInc would piss you off the most since they were the ones you were discussing warring with?

 
A concise recitation of facts is now a zinger?

Your sixth point referring to my post on opportunism clearly was. If you're gonna play dumb, do it better.

[THE WALL]

Ha.

I remember hearing about this 2-3 years ago. I thought it was a joke. I will fulfill my duties however I doubt it will amount to anything.

[To My Dearest Lord Caparo]

I think meth and Dwight/SNXs misunderstanding stems from the fact that SNX supported meth potentially holding a Senate seat before the govt overhaul and foundation of BC.

I really hope something as trivial as that isn't misconstrued by the brown sphere as a hostile action.

[Latest War -- War chart and propaganda and such thread]

Not sure when MI6 has ever been condescending towards other folks over the past year and a half or so. 
 
Celebrate what we do well (and we do some things very well,) but will have to disagree with the punchline that we put others down like I've seen in this conflict.
 
But anything to pick on MI6, I guess.

The joke is that yall are too nice

[Popping some Roids]

 
1. Atlas discusses hitting MInc.
2. Members seem to indicate they're not ready/interested in providing more than financial support.
3. Ex-Atlas members gives MInc. screenshots.
4. MInc. foolishly makes said screenshots public, opening them up to a charge of, at the very least, 'receiving stolen information' and essentially forcing Atlas' hand.
5. Atlas declares war.
6. The usual group of apologists show up to make a remarkably poor case for this being opportunistic.
 
As CBs go, it's rock solid; unlike, for example, declaring war as a result of some name-calling.

Nice zinger man. Did your mom not hug Bros not high five you enough while you were growing up?

The validity of the CB aside, I'm trying to understand Atlas' perspective here. While spying and receiving/posting have both been used as valid CBs in the past, they are two different scenarios and I'd like a clarification on the matter.

[HGH is better]

I wonder if atlas calls in allies to help with a micro that was just rolled.

:popcorn: