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The Dear Hunter

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  3. Penkala

    Posted

    Now onto the rest, shall we.

    [23:01] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm guessing you have a new proposal?

    [23:02] <Myworld[DT]> White Peace, and apology to those still fighting on extending this war longer than it has. We all go our ways not to enter into this conflict again.

    [23:03] <Liz> @##$% off.

    [23:03] <Liz> That's really it.

    [23:03] <Liz> @##$%. Off.

    [23:03] <Liz> We're going to burn you into the ground now.

    [23:03] <Liz> Have a happy day! <3

    [23:04] <Liz> Go !@#$%* on the OWF about that now.

    [23:04] <Liz> I could use a few more queries.

    [23:04] <Myworld[DT]> Got a better idea lets hear it?

    [23:04] <Liz> And while you're at it. Go get some help.

    [23:04] <Liz> Cuz you'll need it.

    [23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose

    [23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> this is an opportunity for CSN to save face.

    [23:05] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We all know you're not neo-hegemony.

    [23:05] <Liz> I believe, I was not unclear.

    [23:05] <Liz> When I said.

    [23:05] <Liz> @##$%. Off.

    [23:07] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Listen, the apology isn't that important. Take the white peace.

    [23:07] <Liz> No, buddy. You're the one in a bad spot here.

    [23:07] <Liz> Not us.

    [23:07] <Liz> You take our terms or @##$% off now.

    [23:07] <Liz> Thats the deal.

    [23:07] <Goose|warmonger|> Wait, you really want us to apologize?

    [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> This could of been done and over with long ago when TIO got out.

    [23:08] <Liz> But its not

    [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't that's fine

    [23:08] <Liz> and now you die.

    [23:08] <Liz> kthx.

    I’ll agree the apology thing was off base, but then again I don’t see any surrender to them, no asking to be allowed to enter on another front. Let’s look at your comments again.

    No, I'm not making this up. CSN accepted DT's counter-offer, which they then withdrew. DT's idea of 'working with CSN'? CSN must surrender to THEM. And also give them white peace to allow them to re-enter the war on another front.
    [23:09] <Liz> Clearly you're delusional if you think we're surrendering or declaring white peace.

    [23:09] <Liz> We really dont care. I think you're missing that point.

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways

    Whelp. So are you still going with the line that everything you said has been truthful, no fabrication, and no lie?

    Let’s continue shall we.

    [23:10] <Liz> We're not going to do that. Clearly.

    [23:10] <Liz> Asking for an apology? Really? Are you that upset?

    [23:10] <Liz> Grow up. It's a friggin game of war. You lose you pay for it.

    [23:10] <Myworld[DT]> Did I just not say it doesn't matter if you do or don't

    [23:10] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to then fine

    [23:10] <Liz> Good, then we're done here right?

    [23:10] <Liz> You refused terms?

    [23:10] <Liz> We refused your Bull%^^&**?

    Oh my it looks like DT is not acting in good faith there, shame on them.

    [23:12] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from 48 hours ago being ready to accept 40k in reps and turn that into us apologizing and white peace?

    [23:12] <Liz> They have dropped time and time again.

    [23:12] <Liz> And then you drop that bull%^&*?

    [23:12] <Liz> No.

    [23:13] <Liz> That's not only insulting but just outright retarded to even try to offer that.

    [23:13] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose, if your MOFA can't handle talks, find one that can.

    [23:13] <Liz> Why would we even negoiate? You know our terms. Do we have to go back to the whole, "Burn you into the ground" thing?

    [23:15] <Goose|warmonger|> I don't know what has changed your minds so vastly in two days, but at this time we're pretty set on the proposal you made the evening of the ninth.

    Why Liz, why indeed? I mean it’s only DT who are acting in good faith and don’t want to negotiate.

    Now goose steps in and is level headed and calmly talks, he is actually an example of how it should be done, at least right now in this part of the logs he is.

    [23:16] <Goose|warmonger|> I walked out when your offer was on the table and 'take it or leave it' was thrown down. At the time, I decided to leave it. After speaking amongst ourselves, some allies and friends, we decided that it would be acceptable.

    [23:19] <Myworld[DT]> Should of said something Goose that you wanted to talk about it. Even after leaving the channel you could of had someone say so. But we didn't hear anything from you until after this update. We figured we were in this for the longer haul with you walking off

    [23:21] <Goose|warmonger|> There wasn't a plan to do anything at the time but go for the long haul. I've since spoken with some friends, allies, and our government. Shamed came and asked me to accept it. So, between all of that, we've reconsidered and decided to accept it.

    I cut out Liz’s ramblings, because really we’ve seen enough of her and her negotiating skills. But Goose did a decent job right there.

    Lets wrap this up.

    What they HAVEN'T found important for the public to know is that CSN accepted these the next day... but then DT changed their minds and decided that instead, their only offer on the table is CSN surrendering to them. Convenient that they've left that part out, isn't it? The problem is, if people knew the truth, they might not see DT as the victims in this.

    After one update, two full days later. They never accepted anything because they walked out on the negotiations. Where did they ask them to surrender, no were. It’s convenient to leave something out when it never happened. Whelp, you say if people know the truth, they wouldn’t trust DT. But when someone only show’s them apart and subjugated part of the truth, it’s kind of hard for them to come to any other conclusion that what you were pointing them in. Good job on being able to spout rhetoric in a believable way.

    But yeah. I'm getting kind of tired of nobody calling DT on their BS, so I will now. That's what really happened: CSN negotiated in good faith with DT and accepted DT's counter offer. DT then withdrew the counter offer and demanded CSN's surrender. All the while, DT's complaining on the OWF that they've offered CSN 40k tech in a different manner, but the big bad CSN refuses to accept. And that's the truth of the situation.

    You are wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. I took your challenge I laid it out for you. You sir have covered up the truth, lied, and fabricated almost everything in your OP. So please, stop lying to everyone here. You made a really good attempt to sway other people to your opinion, and it would have worked until the full logs were released.

  4. Penkala

    Posted

    [20:41] <Carta> Why 10k coming from nations with over 2k? tech?

    [20:41] <@Liz> Because its the term we stipulated.

    [20:41] <@Liz> If you don't like it you don't have to accept it.

    [20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Because we want them to have a little less tech.

    [20:42] <Carta> Ah okay thanks

    [20:42] <Carta> Dont give me a piss poor answer Liz

    [20:42] <Carta> Thank you goose

    [20:42] <@Liz> Lol. I'll give whatever answer I damn well please.[\quote]

    He asked a perfectly reasonable answer and had his head bitten off by Liz. That again doesn’t look like DT is having the problem being reasonable and have a decent decorum thought these logs. It shows Liz and CSN being un-resonable.

    [21:00] <Carta> You will get the tech you are asking for none the less

    [21:06] <Carta> *cricket*

    [21:07] <Goose|warmonger|> We're pretty set on 10k from your 24 nations over 2k tech.

    [21:07] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame.

    [21:25] <Goose|warmonger|> 30k tech. from anywhere, with 10k form your 24 nations that have over 2,000 over a period of 6 months.

    [21:25] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame.

    [21:25] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxx) has left #BaconEaters

    Oh wow, they come up with a counter offer, Goose runs off. Yup it’s their (DT) entire fault for not negotiating in good faith.

    Your next statement.

    No, I'm not making this up. CSN accepted DT's counter-offer, which they then withdrew. DT's idea of 'working with CSN'? CSN must surrender to THEM. And also give them white peace to allow them to re-enter the war on another front. CSN rightly told DT where they could stick those terms. DT absolutely refuses to negotiate in good faith, demanding, instead (as I have been saying for days now) white peace.

    OK let’s get to the logs, but let me point something out at first. You say they must surrender to them, in your second sentence. Ok we can break that lie of yours with the full logs. We can also break your fallacy of them wanting to join in on another side. Hint it doesn’t come up. I already killed your theory of them not negotiating in good faith with the other set of logs. But I digress, let’s get to the second part of the logs no shall we.

    Session Start: Fri Feb 11 19:23:23 2011

    Session Ident:#BaconEaters

    [19:23] ->> You joined channel #BaconEaters

    [19:23] ->> Channel created on 2/10/2011 8:26:01 AM

    [19:30] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxxx) has joined #BaconEaters

    [20:32] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSNotHere]

    [20:53] <Goose|warmonger|> So, where are we on the agreed upon reps?

    [21:01] <Gibsonator21> Supa_Troop3r[DT], Myworld[DT], TiTaN?

    [21:04] <Myworld[DT]> Their AFK for awhile

    [21:05] <Myworld[DT]> So I'm really the only one on line currently.

    [21:06] <Myworld[DT]> But as far as the reps from the other day, there's no agreement there.

    [21:06] <Goose|warmonger|> Okay.

    [21:19] * Gibsonator21 is now known as Gibby[Query]

    [21:24] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXXX) Quit ( Quit: )

    [21:32] <Myworld[DT]> one is at the movies, and the other is at the casino

    [21:33] <Myworld[DT]> They'll be back eventually here.

    [22:19] * Gibby[Query] is now known as Gibsonator21

    [22:36] * Liz[CSNotHere] is now known as Liz

    [22:51] * GeneralOzujsko[DT] (XXXXX) has joined #BaconEaters

    [22:52] <Myworld[DT]> ok guys sorry for the waiting. You guys up for it now?

    [22:53] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXXX) has joined #BaconEaters

    [22:53] <Myworld[DT]> Hey Goose|warmonger| sorry for the waiting them and the fun outside

    [22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Fun outside?

    [22:54] <TiTaN> lol

    [22:54] <TiTaN> I was outtttt son

    [22:54] <TiTaN> It's friday night o/

    [22:54] <TiTaN> Anyways, what's up?

    [22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday.

    [22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement

    [22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this?

    [22:56] <TiTaN> Correct

    [22:56] <Myworld[DT]> you walked off when it was on the table the other day. You come back to us after update and what to do it? Is unacceptable.

    [22:57] <Goose|warmonger|> It was not a matter of update, but getting in touch with people and discussing it.

    [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> There was no mention of you or anyone talking about it.

    [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> You left the channel

    [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> without a word

    [22:58] <Goose|warmonger|> We need to let you know any time we discuss peace terms amongst ourselves? At the time, we were not planning on accepting it. We discussed it and decided it would be acceptable.

    [22:59] <Myworld[DT]> At least a note that you would need to discuss it would of been acceptable

    [22:59] <Liz> Hey TiTaN

    [22:59] <Liz> Whats up man

    [22:59] <TiTaN> Heya

    [22:59] <TiTaN> Nothin

    [22:59] <TiTaN> about to go back out here soon

    [22:59] <TiTaN> you?

    [23:00] <Liz> Doing my make up and trying to go out haha.

    [23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> My apologies, but we did not leave with the intent of discussing it, but refusing it.

    [23:00] <Myworld[DT]> ok so it wasn't an agreement then

    [23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> No, it wasn't.

    [23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms

    [23:01] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm guessing you have a new proposal?

    [23:02] <Myworld[DT]> White Peace, and apology to those still fighting on extending this war longer than it has. We all go our ways not to enter into this conflict again.

    [23:03] <Liz> @##$% off.

    [23:03] <Liz> That's really it.

    [23:03] <Liz> @##$%. Off.

    [23:03] <Liz> We're going to burn you into the ground now.

    [23:03] <Liz> Have a happy day! <3

    [23:04] <Liz> Go !@#$%* on the OWF about that now.

    [23:04] <Liz> I could use a few more queries.

    [23:04] <Myworld[DT]> Got a better idea lets hear it?

    [23:04] <Liz> And while you're at it. Go get some help.

    [23:04] <Liz> Cuz you'll need it.

    [23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose

    [23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> this is an opportunity for CSN to save face.

    [23:05] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We all know you're not neo-hegemony.

    [23:05] <Liz> I believe, I was not unclear.

    [23:05] <Liz> When I said.

    [23:05] <Liz> @##$%. Off.

    [23:07] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Listen, the apology isn't that important. Take the white peace.

    [23:07] <Liz> No, buddy. You're the one in a bad spot here.

    [23:07] <Liz> Not us.

    [23:07] <Liz> You take our terms or @##$% off now.

    [23:07] <Liz> Thats the deal.

    [23:07] <Goose|warmonger|> Wait, you really want us to apologize?

    [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> This could of been done and over with long ago when TIO got out.

    [23:08] <Liz> But its not

    [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't that's fine

    [23:08] <Liz> and now you die.

    [23:08] <Liz> kthx.

    [23:08] <Goose|warmonger|> It could have been done and long ago before you declared.

    [23:08] <Myworld[DT]> I saw doing an apology a way for you to save face and regain some of decency

    [23:08] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Liz, if you can't handle talks, please stop.

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to do it that's fine. It's not a sticking point for us.

    [23:09] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm not interested in you thinking I'm decent, nor the vast majority of the detracters on the OWF.

    [23:09] <Liz> Clearly you're delusional if you think we're surrendering or declaring white peace.

    [23:09] <Liz> We really dont care. I think you're missing that point.

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> *saying

    [23:09] <Goose|warmonger|> But you want an apology from us?

    [23:10] <Liz> We're not going to do that. Clearly.

    [23:10] <Liz> Asking for an apology? Really? Are you that upset?

    [23:10] <Liz> Grow up. It's a friggin game of war. You lose you pay for it.

    [23:10] <Myworld[DT]> Did I just not say it doesn't matter if you do or don't

    [23:10] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to then fine

    [23:10] <Liz> Good, then we're done here right?

    [23:10] <Liz> You refused terms?

    [23:10] <Liz> We refused your Bull%^^&**?

    [23:10] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> As stated earlier, it's not a sticking point for us. We thought it would be an opportunity for you.

    [23:11] <Myworld[DT]> We here to find a point that is acceptible for everyone. Instead of saying @##$% off and call bull%^^&*.

    [23:12] <Liz> You clearly knew that would not be acceptable.

    [23:12] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> What wouldn't be acceptable?

    [23:12] <Myworld[DT]> Then work off it and lets resolve this.

    [23:12] <Liz> We gave you our terms.

    [23:12] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from 48 hours ago being ready to accept 40k in reps and turn that into us apologizing and white peace?

    [23:12] <Liz> They have dropped time and time again.

    [23:12] <Liz> And then you drop that bull%^&*?

    [23:12] <Liz> No.

    [23:13] <Liz> That's not only insulting but just outright retarded to even try to offer that.

    [23:13] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose, if your MOFA can't handle talks, find one that can.

    [23:13] <Liz> Why would we even negoiate? You know our terms. Do we have to go back to the whole, "Burn you into the ground" thing?

    [23:15] <Goose|warmonger|> I don't know what has changed your minds so vastly in two days, but at this time we're pretty set on the proposal you made the evening of the ninth.

    [23:15] <Myworld[DT]> Liz we know that you have members and allies that don't care for your reps offer to us. Take the moment to listen to them and work to find something that is beatifical and not a outrageous for everyone in CN to accpet.

    [23:15] <Myworld[DT]> What changed our minds is this Goose.

    [23:15] <Myworld[DT]> Is you walking out of the talks

    [23:16] <Myworld[DT]> No communication from you to us that you wanted to talk about it. Walking out meant to us that you didn't accept it.

    [23:16] <Goose|warmonger|> I walked out when your offer was on the table and 'take it or leave it' was thrown down. At the time, I decided to leave it. After speaking amongst ourselves, some allies and friends, we decided that it would be acceptable.

    [23:16] <Liz> This room has always had a member of CSN in it.

    [23:17] <Liz> And Supa has been kind enough to stay as well.

    [23:17] <Liz> If not him TiTaN.

    [23:19] <Myworld[DT]> Should of said something Goose that you wanted to talk about it. Even after leaving the channel you could of had someone say so. But we didn't hear anything from you until after this update. We figured we were in this for the longer haul with you walking off

    [23:21] <Liz> Thats an excuse and you know it.

    [23:21] <Myworld[DT]> No excuses

    [23:21] <Liz> That is one right there.

    [23:21] <Liz> If you were so keen you would have sought us out. Like we have you time and time again.

    [23:21] <Goose|warmonger|> There wasn't a plan to do anything at the time but go for the long haul. I've since spoken with some friends, allies, and our government. Shamed came and asked me to accept it. So, between all of that, we've reconsidered and decided to accept it.

    [23:23] <Myworld[DT]> If your so sent in reps then you'll need to find a middle ground between that and White peace of CSN and DT walking away.

    [23:23] <Gibsonator21> Why? Not two days ago you were in on these reps. Nothing has changed since then.

    [23:23] <Liz> I think you will find that is not on the table.

    [23:23] <Liz> These are your terms.

    [23:23] <Myworld[DT]> 2 days of war has changed

    [23:23] <Liz> That we graciously agreed to.

    [23:23] <Liz> This is the second time you have renegged

    [23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Not true.

    [23:24] <Liz> Very true.

    [23:24] <Myworld[DT]> No there was no agreement on the table.

    [23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Seriously, Goose, have some sense of professionalism here.

    [23:24] <Liz> You came to us with what you found suitable.

    [23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> You know very well there was no agreement.

    [23:24] <Liz> We offered that back to you as an agreement.

    [23:24] <Gibsonator21> Two days of war changes nothing.

    [23:24] <Liz> How is it not agreeable?

    [23:24] <Liz> You have like 40 something people in your aa.

    [23:25] <Liz> That clearly doesn't amount to the damages you agreed to in terms.

    [23:25] <Gibsonator21> We basically let you make your own term, and accepted it a day later.

    [23:25] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> You walked away from it.

    [23:26] <Myworld[DT]> We had no knowledge of that. You walked away. Not a word to us.

    [23:26] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> And if you needed to consider it further, then say so.

    [23:27] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> So therefore, there was no agreement upon the conclusion of the last round of talks.

    [23:27] <Gibsonator21> That time is over. We walked away not ready to agree to it. We talked with allies/friends/members/everyone who's anyone, and now are ready to agree to that term. Two days have changed nothing.

    [23:27] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We understand, only now, that you needed to talk it over.

    [23:28] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> But that means you need to indicate that.

    [23:28] <Gibsonator21> Great, we didn't. Either way, we're ready with that offer.

    [23:28] <Goose|warmonger|> It wasn't even planned on being talked over.

    [23:30] <Goose|warmonger|> I had a chat with Shamedmonkey, with him asking me to reconsider our stance and we did, coming to an agreement that the terms you offered would be agreeable. It was 30 hours after you put them forth that we got word to you about it.

    [23:31] <Myworld[DT]> Well when you decided to talk it over you should of said so or come to us asking if it was still on the table. In most talks when a person walks away then the offer is voided.

    [23:32] <Goose|warmonger|> We didn't know about even talking it over until shortly before we let TiTaN know that they were acceptable.

    [23:32] * Gibsonator21 sighs

    [23:32] <Gibsonator21> We're talking in circles.

    [23:34] <Myworld[DT]> So tell you what up until the logs from hearing CSN wanted to accept what you walked away. I was thinking of a lower offer to counter with that wasn't white peace. So I give you the opportunity to find that number.

    [23:36] <Gibsonator21> I'd rather you guess what we're thinking. Shouldn't be so hard since you provided it for us last talks we had.

    [23:37] <Myworld[DT]> Well its not the same number sorry.

    [23:40] <Goose|warmonger|> I guess we don't have an agreement, and please note that my leaving means we don't have an agreement and we won't be discussing a lowering of terms any further. Please come find me when you're ready to agree to the terms.

    [23:40] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXX) has left #BaconEaters

    [23:40] * Gibsonator21 (XXXX) has left #BaconEaters

    [23:40] * Liz (XXX) has left #BaconEaters

    Now let’s break it down to show were you lied and fabricated in your OP.

    Session Start: Wed Feb 09 19:56:18 2011

    Session Ident:#BaconEaters

    Session Start: Fri Feb 11 19:23:23 2011

    Session Ident:#BaconEaters

    That’s two days, not one day like you seem to imply in your OP. Almost two complete days, it took for negotiations to start again.

    [22:54] <TiTaN> Anyways, what's up?

    [22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday.

    [22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement

    [22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this?

    [22:56] <TiTaN> Correct

    He walked away, and now two days later he is back to accept the agreement? It doesn’t work like that. He walked out of the room, more than once may I add.

    [23:40] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXX) has left #BaconEaters
    [22:58] <Goose|warmonger|> We need to let you know any time we discuss peace terms amongst ourselves? At the time, we were not planning on accepting it. We discussed it and decided it would be acceptable.

    [22:59] <Myworld[DT]> At least a note that you would need to discuss it would of been acceptable

    [23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> My apologies, but we did not leave with the intent of discussing it, but refusing it.

    [23:00] <Myworld[DT]> ok so it wasn't an agreement then

    [23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> No, it wasn't.

    What you said in the OP

    In fact, the last round of negotiations, CSN accepted DT's counter-offer. DT responded by withdrawing the offer.

    Ahh, looks like Goose says it was never agreed upon, and they walked out with the intent of refusing it. I know you love to spin everything so you can give them something to read that fits your rhetoric, but again what you posted in the OP doesn’t equate to what is said in the full logs.

  5. Penkala

    Posted

    Session Start: Wed Feb 09 19:56:18 2011

    Session Ident:#BaconEaters

    [19:56] ->> You joined channel #BaconEaters

    [19:56] ->> Channel created on 2/8/2011 11:55:57 PM

    [19:57] <Myworld[dt]> howdy

    [19:57] <@Liz> Hello hello

    [19:57] <TiTaN> yo

    [19:57] <Goose|warmonger|> Welcome back.

    [19:57] <Myworld[dt]> yup

    [19:57] <TiTaN> just got home from work

    [19:57] <TiTaN> sup?

    [19:58] <Myworld[dt]> I take it that we're all ready to talk and get to a reasonable end?

    [19:58] <Goose|warmonger|> So, we've discussed the terms, and have come up with 30,000 tech. from any source (up to half of which may be paid at a rate of $3M/100 tech. at your discression), and 10,000 technology from your nations over 2,000 technology.

    [20:00] <Goose|warmonger|> The timeline, we're flexible with.

    [20:00] <Myworld[dt]> Why do you think we have to be given reps?

    [20:00] <Goose|warmonger|> Because you entered on a front where we had already offered white peace to LoSS. Your entry was unwarrented and unnecessary.

    [20:01] <Myworld[dt]> Well there was no peace accepted

    [20:01] <Myworld[dt]> And wasn't going to be accepted

    [20:02] <Myworld[dt]> So unwarranted in your view is your opinion, but not from LoSS's point of view to ask us to back them up.

    [20:02] <Myworld[dt]> We've had to deal with "Ghost" nations from other AA's joining in under your aa to attack us.

    [20:03] <Myworld[dt]> But yet CSN wants us to pay reps?

    [20:06] <Goose|warmonger|> Yes.

    [20:07] <Myworld[dt]> But yet your ally Legacy doesn't want them? And we declared on them. You asked for your war by declaring on DT.

    [20:07] <Myworld[dt]> Most good allies found suite of the primary alliance that they came in to defend.

    [20:08] <Myworld[dt]> *follow

    [20:08] * Goose|warmonger| shrugs

    [20:09] <Goose|warmonger|> While they may be willing to overlook it, I am not. You hit our treaty partner where your involvement could not have improved the outcome for LoSS in the least.

    [20:10] <TiTaN> We honor treaties, regardless of the outcome

    [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> I'd say that it did help them as both CSN and Legacy did see more loss in NS during our involvement.

    [20:10] <TiTaN> I don't see why that is a difficult concept to grasp lol

    [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> We followed a valid treaty to help LoSS our friends.

    [20:11] <@Liz> You agree to 40k yesterday.

    [20:11] <@Liz> Today we lower those and you debate it?

    [20:11] <@Liz> Are you dense?

    [20:11] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k?

    [20:12] <@Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues.

    [20:12] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source

    [20:12] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations

    [20:12] <@Liz> Less than the 40k we wanted from your 2k nations initially.

    [20:12] <@Liz> It's gracious. Consider it such.

    [20:12] * Goose|warmonger| (Goosewarm@coldfront-FD7916C.pason.com) has left #BaconEaters

    [20:12] <TiTaN> I don't see why it has to come from 2k tech nations, though?

    [20:13] <@Liz> Goose has left the building. I guess we're done here.

    [20:14] <TiTaN> k

    [20:18] <@Liz> So TiTaN, what kinda sperrys do you rock

    [20:18] <TiTaN> I have some pix

    [20:18] <TiTaN> one min lol

    [20:18] <@Liz> I just helped majik pick out a pair a few weeks ago.

    [20:18] <@Liz> Junior year and he's buying his first pair. Been around for 2 years. For shame.

    [20:20] <TiTaN> http://i1129.photobu...THES/sperry.jpg

    [20:20] <TiTaN> those are my most recent

    [20:20] <TiTaN> I have the oatmeals and brown ones too

    [20:21] <@Liz> Oh I like those.

    [20:21] <@Liz> I hate hate hate black sperrys.

    [20:21] <@Liz> So much.

    [20:21] <@Liz> Love the color though

    [20:22] <TiTaN> yeah i wouldn't rock the black ones lol

    [20:28] <Myworld[dt]> So is he coming back to contine talks?

    [20:31] <Gibsonator21> <~Goose|warmonger|> If he's sincere about working out a schedule to pay the reparations I'll return, if he wants to debate the merits of us wanting reps, I've got better things to do.

    [20:31] <Myworld[dt]> We'll agree to 10k of tech paid at a rate of 3m/100 from any nation from any source over a 3 month time frame.

    [20:32] <@Liz> Total total?

    [20:32] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxx) has joined #BaconEaters

    [20:32] <@Liz> 10k total*

    [20:32] <@Liz> my friggin delete button sucks.

    [20:33] <Myworld[dt]> Yes 10k tech total

    [20:33] <Carta> I'm here now btw

    [20:33] <Carta> >.>

    [20:34] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from willing to pay the 40k from any source yesterday down to only 10k from any source today?

    [20:35] <Myworld[dt]> Which one of us said we'd pay 40k of tech to CSN. We didn't have talks yesterday with you.

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k?

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues.

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations

    [20:38] <@Liz> Communication issues again?

    [20:38] <Carta> So why 10k tech direct sending? And not buying?

    [20:39] <Myworld[dt]> Apparently, cause I wasn't aware we hand any offical talks with CSN yesterday?

    [20:39] <@Liz> Well, I'd work on that. It seems to be the trend in this war.

    [20:40] <@Liz> The official offer is what now?

    [20:40] <Carta> Liz.

    [20:40] <Myworld[dt]> Cause I didn't agree to 40k before last night and still wouldn't and not even close to accepting 30k.

    [20:40] <Goose|warmonger|> 40k total tech. 30k from any source. 10k coming from the nations with over 2k tech.

    [20:41] <@Liz> Thanks Goose.

    [20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Then why the hell is TiTaN telling us you'd accept teh 40k in reps if it can come from any source?

    [20:41] <Carta> Again.

    [20:41] <Carta> Why 10k coming from nations with over 2k? tech?

    [20:41] <@Liz> Because its the term we stipulated.

    [20:41] <@Liz> If you don't like it you don't have to accept it.

    [20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Because we want them to have a little less tech.

    [20:42] <Carta> Ah okay thanks

    [20:42] <Carta> Dont give me a piss poor answer Liz

    [20:42] <Carta> Thank you goose

    [20:42] <@Liz> Lol. I'll give whatever answer I damn well please.

    [20:43] <Carta> :rollseyes:

    [20:44] <Myworld[dt]> If you want 40k of blood tech then it will come from anyone we want it to come from at any size over a 6 month time frame.

    [20:45] <Goose|warmonger|> 10k will have to come from your nations over 2k, and a 6 month timeframe would be acceptable.

    [20:45] <Myworld[dt]> Will will come from any size

    [20:45] <Myworld[dt]> No limit

    [20:46] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSnowN]

    [20:47] * Liz[CSnowN] is now known as Liz

    [20:48] <Myworld[dt]> 30k from anywhere, 10k from DT from any nation, over 6 months.

    [20:53] <Carta> I to be honest, don't see point unless CSN has some grudge with us, why for the 10k from DT directly. If we buy you the tech I don't see the difference?

    [20:53] <Carta> Unless as I said you have a grudge with us and want to make this personal

    [20:54] <Goose|warmonger|> It got personal when you declared on our former protectorate, and MDP partner that was fighting at our side on a front where white peace was offered already.

    [20:54] <Myworld[dt]> And wasn't accepted due to TIO

    [20:54] <TiTaN> They declined the peace lol

    [20:54] <Carta> They don't seem to think it is, seeing as they want to give us white peace, have talked of a cease fire

    [20:55] <Carta> So, I'm glad we have cleared it up that this is personal.

    [20:55] <Myworld[dt]> Especially when we have friends in Legacy as well.

    [20:56] <Carta> And not strictly business. So it's all opinions and emotion based for these terms

    [20:56] <Myworld[dt]> Many of them were part of alliances that were in NOIR.

    [20:57] <Carta> So.. what do you say on us just buying you tech? instead of sending you tech?

    [21:00] <Carta> You will get the tech you are asking for none the less

    [21:06] <Carta> *cricket*

    [21:07] <Goose|warmonger|> We're pretty set on 10k from your 24 nations over 2k tech.

    [21:07] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame.

    [21:25] <Goose|warmonger|> 30k tech. from anywhere, with 10k form your 24 nations that have over 2,000 over a period of 6 months.

    [21:25] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame.

    [21:25] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxx) has left #BaconEaters

    [21:29] <Myworld[dt]> You guys still get your tech no matter how you it comes to you. It's bad enough that you'll look silly taking reps when the primary alliance is not asking for it.

    Lets break down your statements compared to these logs.

    DT has absolutely NOT been willing to work with CSN. In fact, the last round of negotiations, CSN accepted DT's counter-offer. DT responded by withdrawing the offer. CSN went to see what their NEW offer would in order to work with them again to find a fair amount they could pay. DT's counter offer? "You give us complete white peace, except that you also publicly apologize to everyone on this side of the war".
    [19:58] <Goose|warmonger|> So, we've discussed the terms, and have come up with 30,000 tech. from any source (up to half of which may be paid at a rate of $3M/100 tech. at your discression), and 10,000 technology from your nations over 2,000 technology.

    Right off the bat, he goes with some high numbers and an outrageous stipulation from only antions with 2k tech can pay.

    [quoite] [20:11] <@Liz> You agree to 40k yesterday.

    [20:11] <@Liz> Today we lower those and you debate it?

    [20:11] <@Liz> Are you dense?

    [20:11] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k?

    [20:12] <@Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues.

    [20:12] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source

    [20:12] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations

    [20:12] <@Liz> Less than the 40k we wanted from your 2k nations initially.

    [20:12] <@Liz> It's gracious. Consider it such.

    After they talk about why they (CSN) deserves the reps, we have Liz start targeting their (DT) communication “issues”. Then she acts all tough and says “It’s gracious. Consider it such,” That doesn’t look to be negotiating in good faith.

    [20:12] * Goose|warmonger| (Goosewarm@coldfront-FD7916C.pason.com) has left #BaconEaters

    [20:12] <TiTaN> I don't see why it has to come from 2k tech nations, though?

    [20:13] <@Liz> Goose has left the building. I guess we're done here.

    [20:14] <TiTaN> k

    If you follow the logs it shows that they tried to engage them (CSN) on why the tech most come from 2k and above nations. Goose responds by leaving the negatations, and the MoFA says, “I guess we are done here.” Seems like CSN wants to negotiate and it is the ones in DT who don’t, if you can’t tell that’s sarcasm.

    [20:34] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from willing to pay the 40k from any source yesterday down to only 10k from any source today?

    [20:35] <Myworld[dt]> Which one of us said we'd pay 40k of tech to CSN. We didn't have talks yesterday with you.

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k?

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues.

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source

    [20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations

    [20:38] <@Liz> Communication issues again?

    [20:38] <Carta> So why 10k tech direct sending? And not buying?

    [20:39] <Myworld[dt]> Apparently, cause I wasn't aware we hand any offical talks with CSN yesterday?

    [20:39] <@Liz> Well, I'd work on that. It seems to be the trend in this war.

    [20:40] <@Liz> The official offer is what now?

    [20:40] <Carta> Liz.

    [20:40] <Myworld[dt]> Cause I didn't agree to 40k before last night and still wouldn't and not even close to accepting 30k.

    [20:40] <Goose|warmonger|> 40k total tech. 30k from any source. 10k coming from the nations with over 2k tech.

    [20:41] <@Liz> Thanks Goose.

    We see here again that Liz is attempting to tell them that they (DT) have communication problems to the leader of the alliance. Seems like they’re under the guise of oh well you accepted it last night it’s not our problem if you have communication issues. Again great ability to talk to people there, Liz.

  6. Penkala

    Posted

    I've had this challenge out there for a while: Prove that the shortened logs I provided do not tell the tale of why the terms were rejected by DT in any substantial way.[/Quote]

    Your snippet of logs

    [22:54] <TiTaN> Anyways, what's up?

    [22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday.

    [22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement

    [22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this?

    [22:56] <TiTaN> Correct

    [22:56] <Myworld[DT]> you walked off when it was on the table the other day. You come back to us after update and what to do it? Is unacceptable.

    [22:57] <Goose|warmonger|> It was not a matter of update, but getting in touch with people and discussing it.

    [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> There was no mention of you or anyone talking about it.

    [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> You left the channel

    [22:57] <Myworld[DT]> without a word

    [22:58] <Goose|warmonger|> We need to let you know any time we discuss peace terms amongst ourselves? At the time, we were not planning on accepting it. We discussed it and decided it would be acceptable.

    -snip-

    [23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms

    [23:01] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm guessing you have a new proposal?

    [23:02] <Myworld[DT]> White Peace, and apology to those still fighting on extending this war longer than it has. We all go our ways not to enter into this conflict again.

    First thing, there are no dates. So you can say in your little OP that they were “accepted” way faster than they were. That’s your first attempt to persuade the average on-looker to your favor.

    It goes on to show that they (DT) say they pulled the terms from the table because they walked off, but without dates or times this again looks bad for them. And when goose says yesterday, it also fits your notion of only one update had passed, not two days.

    You conveniently skip over the whole context of how and why they (DT) were pulling the reps off the table. Then you show Goose saying they accepted it, but never show him leaving the room and telling them anything about why he left the room.

    So your first snippet of logs looks pretty bad, because you cherry picked which parts to show.

    And also give them white peace to allow them to re-enter the war on another front.

    You make this statement in your OP, but I don’t see in your logs. Are you intentionally spewing stuff just to make the other side (DT) look bad? Because you didn’t back up your claim in the logs you cherry picked from. You also go on to say.

    What they HAVEN'T found important for the public to know is that CSN accepted these the next day... but then DT changed their minds and decided that instead, their only offer on the table is CSN surrendering to them.[\quote]

    Again where is it in the logs they ask them (CSN) to surrender. Also without dates or context the next day does seem kind of implicating that they weren’t willing to negotiate in good faith. But again with the only cherry picked logs in the op, it’s easy to make those accusations and mis-lead a public without the full logs.

    (In full disclosure (something you WON'T get from DT)) they later dropped the 'apology' term and changed it to pure white peace).

    You FULL disclosure? You didn’t even post the full logs, someone from DT did, that my friend is full disclosure. But ok lets go have a look at their (DT) logs and compare them to your OP and statements.

  7. Penkala

    Posted

    You tried to drag CSN through the mud, you tried to call in allies to coerce CSN into giving you peace, you retract terms, then you give the most insulting serious "counter-terms" in CN history. And you're surprised when Liz tells you to $%&@ off? HAHAHA

    1. I'm not in DT, but that's an over look-able fact.

    2. Pick the most irrelevant point to my post, and reply.

    3. Don't deny anything else i said that implies you fabricated and conveniently forgot details in your blog.

    It had all the makings of a great reply to my post.

  8. Penkala

    Posted

    They can say that's not surrender if they want; they can also say that giving reps to CSN is not surrender. No one can stop them from holding those viewpoints. However, in my book, and in most peoples' books, when one side gives anything more than the other side in the peace term, the one giving is surrendering. So in the eyes of most people, you were asking for that to happen, no matter what you call it.

    I could care less whose "surrendering" to whom. It was more to show that his rhetoric is being spewed with fabrication, and without full logs. When the full logs were shown, DT doesn't look half as bad as he claims. He conveniently forgets how Liz has acted in the negations, yet putting full blame onto DT. If he just forgets and fabricates one thing, how can we believe him not to be fabricating other parts of this whole blog.

  9. Penkala

    Posted

    Yes. You posted the full logs. Which tell exactly the same story I just provided with like 2 dozen lines: You made a counter offer. Later, they accepted it. Then you demanded CSN surrender to you, and they told you to shove it.

    Whelp

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender

    [23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways

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