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On the DT situation

Penkala

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I guess what really needs to be said is that DT is being less than truthful to the world. DT has absolutely NOT been willing to work with CSN. In fact, the last round of negotiations, CSN accepted DT's counter-offer. DT responded by withdrawing the offer. CSN went to see what their NEW offer would in order to work with them again to find a fair amount they could pay. DT's counter offer? "You give us complete white peace, except that you also publicly apologize to everyone on this side of the war".

No, I'm not making this up. CSN accepted DT's counter-offer, which they then withdrew. DT's idea of 'working with CSN'? CSN must surrender to THEM. And also give them white peace to allow them to re-enter the war on another front. CSN rightly told DT where they could stick those terms. DT absolutely refuses to negotiate in good faith, demanding, instead (as I have been saying for days now) white peace.

CSN is not an unreasonable alliance. Despite DT's continued attempts to drag them through the mud, CSN HAS been and IS willing to work with DT to negotiate and find a fair payment schedule and lighten the reps. They will NOT surrender to DT to end this war, though. The simple fact is that DT thinks they can continue to manipulate public perception of this conflict's negotiation to force CSN into giving them white peace. The last thing they told everyone, for example, was that they offered to pay 40k tech -- just that only 10k would come from DT. What they HAVEN'T found important for the public to know is that CSN accepted these the next day... but then DT changed their minds and decided that instead, their only offer on the table is CSN surrendering to them. Convenient that they've left that part out, isn't it? The problem is, if people knew the truth, they might not see DT as the victims in this.

(In full disclosure (something you WON'T get from DT)) they later dropped the 'apology' term and changed it to pure white peace).

If anyone who is involved in this wants to know the TRUTH, I suggest they talk to CSN somewhere else (as this isn't the place for this discussion).

But yeah. I'm getting kind of tired of nobody calling DT on their BS, so I will now. That's what really happened: CSN negotiated in good faith with DT and accepted DT's counter offer. DT then withdrew the counter offer and demanded CSN's surrender. All the while, DT's complaining on the OWF that they've offered CSN 40k tech in a different manner, but the big bad CSN refuses to accept. And that's the truth of the situation.

[22:54] <TiTaN> Anyways, what's up?

[22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday.

[22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement

[22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this?

[22:56] <TiTaN> Correct

[22:56] <Myworld[DT]> you walked off when it was on the table the other day. You come back to us after update and what to do it? Is unacceptable.

[22:57] <Goose|warmonger|> It was not a matter of update, but getting in touch with people and discussing it.

[22:57] <Myworld[DT]> There was no mention of you or anyone talking about it.

[22:57] <Myworld[DT]> You left the channel

[22:57] <Myworld[DT]> without a word

[22:58] <Goose|warmonger|> We need to let you know any time we discuss peace terms amongst ourselves? At the time, we were not planning on accepting it. We discussed it and decided it would be acceptable.

-snip-

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms

[23:01] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm guessing you have a new proposal?

[23:02] <Myworld[DT]> White Peace, and apology to those still fighting on extending this war longer than it has. We all go our ways not to enter into this conflict again.



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I saw that DT proposed a counter offer and CSN never responded.

You saw wrong. CSN accepted the counter offer. DT then pulled it. CSN went to them again, and DT's response was that the only terms they would accept would be CSN surrendering to them.

This is all in my post. :P

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Did DT's counter still include the "only 2K tech and up can pay" term for their portion?

And the way I see it, they both have grievances with each other, them for LoSS' sake, and CSN for Legacy's. Calling it a square white peace isn't that outrageous, nor without precedent. A one-sided apology is certainly silly though.

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Did DT's counter still include the "only 2K tech and up can pay" term for their portion?

Nope. 10k tech from ANYONE in DT, 30k from anyone else in the world they wanted to pay it. EXTREMELY reasonable terms given DT's attempts to drag CSN through the mud.

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You saw wrong. CSN accepted the counter offer. DT then pulled it. CSN went to them again, and DT's response was that the only terms they would accept would be CSN surrendering to them.

This is all in my post. :P

You are misinformed, DT offered the terms and they were ignored. I guess now that CSN is having internal strife they finally want to come to heir senses and end it so they try and come back and take what they can get. I say DT has every right to take this stance now. CSN could have ended this long ago.

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You are misinformed, DT offered the terms and they were ignored. I guess now that CSN is having internal strife they finally want to come to heir senses and end it so they try and come back and take what they can get. I say DT has every right to take this stance now. CSN could have ended this long ago.

I'm not misinformed at all. CSN initially rejected the terms, but later talked it over and decided to just let DT off with those terms. CSN isn't having any 'internal strife', you can calm down on that, too. It's not a democracy, and things aren't going to change. This is DT's fault that the war isn't over now. And it's pretty hilarious that they're trying to be the victim when CSN agreed to terms that DT proposed within 24 hours 30 hours, my bad :P.

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Sounds like CSN never told DT that they were 'accepting' those terms. Which are still ridiculous, by the way. 40k tech is way too high for such a small and peripheral alliance, even without restrictions on where it comes from.

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Nope. 10k tech from ANYONE in DT, 30k from anyone else in the world they wanted to pay it. EXTREMELY reasonable terms given DT's attempts to drag CSN through the mud.

reps for saying things on the forums, glad to hear you believe in free speech Penky.

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No internal issues eh, ok :P

Several people disagreed with reps, yes.

This happens in many alliances. Clearly CSN doesn't feel that much internal pressure since they just told DT to go $%&@ themselves and come back when they're ready to pay 40k tech.

Sounds like CSN never told DT that they were 'accepting' those terms. Which are still ridiculous, by the way. 40k tech is way too high for such a small and peripheral alliance, even without restrictions on where it comes from.

Given the way DT has acted, the reps should probably be a little over double that.

reps for saying things on the forums, glad to hear you believe in free speech Penky.

It's not just what they're saying on the forums. And yeah, this is not a 'free speech' issue. They're completely free to act like children in negotiations and then try to lie about it and make CSN look bad on the OWF. That means the terms are probably going to be harsher, though. And anything less would be unreasonable.

Penkala, I liked how you edited your blog after I posted. Truly a class act. Bobby hit the nail right on it's head.

I just edited it to add in the logs supporting what I was telling everyone. How is that 'classless'? 0_o

Sounds like someone's just mad that I proved them wrong and made them look like a bit of a fool!

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Penkala, how about showing the hole part of the situation and not try to spin it to your favor or interpretation.

Log dumps for the world I guess I need to provide? You've taken out all of the talks and spinned it.

CSN walked away 2 days ago with the offer:

Session Start: Wed Feb 09 19:56:18 2011

Session Ident:#BaconEaters

[19:56] ->> You joined channel #BaconEaters

[19:56] ->> Channel created on 2/8/2011 11:55:57 PM

[19:57] <Myworld[dt]> howdy

[19:57] <@Liz> Hello hello

[19:57] <TiTaN> yo

[19:57] <Goose|warmonger|> Welcome back.

[19:57] <Myworld[dt]> yup

[19:57] <TiTaN> just got home from work

[19:57] <TiTaN> sup?

[19:58] <Myworld[dt]> I take it that we're all ready to talk and get to a reasonable end?

[19:58] <Goose|warmonger|> So, we've discussed the terms, and have come up with 30,000 tech. from any source (up to half of which may be paid at a rate of $3M/100 tech. at your discression), and 10,000 technology from your nations over 2,000 technology.

[20:00] <Goose|warmonger|> The timeline, we're flexible with.

[20:00] <Myworld[dt]> Why do you think we have to be given reps?

[20:00] <Goose|warmonger|> Because you entered on a front where we had already offered white peace to LoSS. Your entry was unwarrented and unnecessary.

[20:01] <Myworld[dt]> Well there was no peace accepted

[20:01] <Myworld[dt]> And wasn't going to be accepted

[20:02] <Myworld[dt]> So unwarranted in your view is your opinion, but not from LoSS's point of view to ask us to back them up.

[20:02] <Myworld[dt]> We've had to deal with "Ghost" nations from other AA's joining in under your aa to attack us.

[20:03] <Myworld[dt]> But yet CSN wants us to pay reps?

[20:06] <Goose|warmonger|> Yes.

[20:07] <Myworld[dt]> But yet your ally Legacy doesn't want them? And we declared on them. You asked for your war by declaring on DT.

[20:07] <Myworld[dt]> Most good allies found suite of the primary alliance that they came in to defend.

[20:08] <Myworld[dt]> *follow

[20:08] * Goose|warmonger| shrugs

[20:09] <Goose|warmonger|> While they may be willing to overlook it, I am not. You hit our treaty partner where your involvement could not have improved the outcome for LoSS in the least.

[20:10] <TiTaN> We honor treaties, regardless of the outcome

[20:10] <Myworld[dt]> I'd say that it did help them as both CSN and Legacy did see more loss in NS during our involvement.

[20:10] <TiTaN> I don't see why that is a difficult concept to grasp lol

[20:10] <Myworld[dt]> We followed a valid treaty to help LoSS our friends.

[20:11] <@Liz> You agree to 40k yesterday.

[20:11] <@Liz> Today we lower those and you debate it?

[20:11] <@Liz> Are you dense?

[20:11] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k?

[20:12] <@Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues.

[20:12] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source

[20:12] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations

[20:12] <@Liz> Less than the 40k we wanted from your 2k nations initially.

[20:12] <@Liz> It's gracious. Consider it such.

[20:12] * Goose|warmonger| (Goosewarm@coldfront-FD7916C.pason.com) has left #BaconEaters

[20:12] <TiTaN> I don't see why it has to come from 2k tech nations, though?

[20:13] <@Liz> Goose has left the building. I guess we're done here.

[20:14] <TiTaN> k

[20:18] <@Liz> So TiTaN, what kinda sperrys do you rock

[20:18] <TiTaN> I have some pix

[20:18] <TiTaN> one min lol

[20:18] <@Liz> I just helped majik pick out a pair a few weeks ago.

[20:18] <@Liz> Junior year and he's buying his first pair. Been around for 2 years. For shame.

[20:20] <TiTaN> http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/CarpKU/CLOTHES/sperry.jpg

[20:20] <TiTaN> those are my most recent

[20:20] <TiTaN> I have the oatmeals and brown ones too

[20:21] <@Liz> Oh I like those.

[20:21] <@Liz> I hate hate hate black sperrys.

[20:21] <@Liz> So much.

[20:21] <@Liz> Love the color though

[20:22] <TiTaN> yeah i wouldn't rock the black ones lol

[20:28] <Myworld[dt]> So is he coming back to contine talks?

[20:31] <Gibsonator21> <~Goose|warmonger|> If he's sincere about working out a schedule to pay the reparations I'll return, if he wants to debate the merits of us wanting reps, I've got better things to do.

[20:31] <Myworld[dt]> We'll agree to 10k of tech paid at a rate of 3m/100 from any nation from any source over a 3 month time frame.

[20:32] <@Liz> Total total?

[20:32] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxx) has joined #BaconEaters

[20:32] <@Liz> 10k total*

[20:32] <@Liz> my friggin delete button sucks.

[20:33] <Myworld[dt]> Yes 10k tech total

[20:33] <Carta> I'm here now btw

[20:33] <Carta> >.>

[20:34] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from willing to pay the 40k from any source yesterday down to only 10k from any source today?

[20:35] <Myworld[dt]> Which one of us said we'd pay 40k of tech to CSN. We didn't have talks yesterday with you.

[20:36] <@Liz> [20:10] <Myworld[dt]> huh? When did we agree to 40k?

[20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <Liz> You might want to work on those communication issues.

[20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> We did, however it had to come from an outside source

[20:36] <@Liz> [20:11] <TiTaN> the issue here is that you are trying to make it come from 2k or more nations

[20:38] <@Liz> Communication issues again?

[20:38] <Carta> So why 10k tech direct sending? And not buying?

[20:39] <Myworld[dt]> Apparently, cause I wasn't aware we hand any offical talks with CSN yesterday?

[20:39] <@Liz> Well, I'd work on that. It seems to be the trend in this war.

[20:40] <@Liz> The official offer is what now?

[20:40] <Carta> Liz.

[20:40] <Myworld[dt]> Cause I didn't agree to 40k before last night and still wouldn't and not even close to accepting 30k.

[20:40] <Goose|warmonger|> 40k total tech. 30k from any source. 10k coming from the nations with over 2k tech.

[20:41] <@Liz> Thanks Goose.

[20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Then why the hell is TiTaN telling us you'd accept teh 40k in reps if it can come from any source?

[20:41] <Carta> Again.

[20:41] <Carta> Why 10k coming from nations with over 2k? tech?

[20:41] <@Liz> Because its the term we stipulated.

[20:41] <@Liz> If you don't like it you don't have to accept it.

[20:41] <Goose|warmonger|> Because we want them to have a little less tech.

[20:42] <Carta> Ah okay thanks

[20:42] <Carta> Dont give me a piss poor answer Liz

[20:42] <Carta> Thank you goose

[20:42] <@Liz> Lol. I'll give whatever answer I damn well please.

[20:43] <Carta> :rollseyes:

[20:44] <Myworld[dt]> If you want 40k of blood tech then it will come from anyone we want it to come from at any size over a 6 month time frame.

[20:45] <Goose|warmonger|> 10k will have to come from your nations over 2k, and a 6 month timeframe would be acceptable.

[20:45] <Myworld[dt]> Will will come from any size

[20:45] <Myworld[dt]> No limit

[20:46] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSnowN]

[20:47] * Liz[CSnowN] is now known as Liz

[20:48] <Myworld[dt]> 30k from anywhere, 10k from DT from any nation, over 6 months.

[20:53] <Carta> I to be honest, don't see point unless CSN has some grudge with us, why for the 10k from DT directly. If we buy you the tech I don't see the difference?

[20:53] <Carta> Unless as I said you have a grudge with us and want to make this personal

[20:54] <Goose|warmonger|> It got personal when you declared on our former protectorate, and MDP partner that was fighting at our side on a front where white peace was offered already.

[20:54] <Myworld[dt]> And wasn't accepted due to TIO

[20:54] <TiTaN> They declined the peace lol

[20:54] <Carta> They don't seem to think it is, seeing as they want to give us white peace, have talked of a cease fire

[20:55] <Carta> So, I'm glad we have cleared it up that this is personal.

[20:55] <Myworld[dt]> Especially when we have friends in Legacy as well.

[20:56] <Carta> And not strictly business. So it's all opinions and emotion based for these terms

[20:56] <Myworld[dt]> Many of them were part of alliances that were in NOIR.

[20:57] <Carta> So.. what do you say on us just buying you tech? instead of sending you tech?

[21:00] <Carta> You will get the tech you are asking for none the less

[21:06] <Carta> *cricket*

[21:07] <Goose|warmonger|> We're pretty set on 10k from your 24 nations over 2k tech.

[21:07] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame.

[21:25] <Goose|warmonger|> 30k tech. from anywhere, with 10k form your 24 nations that have over 2,000 over a period of 6 months.

[21:25] <Myworld[dt]> Balls in your court guys: 30k tech from anywhere, 10k purchased by DT sent to CSN, over a 6 month time frame.

[21:25] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxx) has left #BaconEaters

[21:29] <Myworld[dt]> You guys still get your tech no matter how you it comes to you. It's bad enough that you'll look silly taking reps when the primary alliance is not asking for it.

As you can see Goose left the talks. He nor any of his gov members state that they would talk or think about it. Yes DT were ready to accept what was on the table, but walking away means that you don't accept the offer, so it's not valid.

2 days later they come and want to accept the previous offer after we had been at war 2 more additional days. No communication with CSN from when they walked away and the new set of talks. Sorry but terms don't carry over when you walk away.

Full logs of last night:

Session Start: Fri Feb 11 19:23:23 2011

Session Ident:#BaconEaters

[19:23] ->> You joined channel #BaconEaters

[19:23] ->> Channel created on 2/10/2011 8:26:01 AM

[19:30] * Goose|warmonger| (xxxxx) has joined #BaconEaters

[20:32] * Liz is now known as Liz[CSNotHere]

[20:53] <Goose|warmonger|> So, where are we on the agreed upon reps?

[21:01] <Gibsonator21> Supa_Troop3r[DT], Myworld[DT], TiTaN?

[21:04] <Myworld[DT]> Their AFK for awhile

[21:05] <Myworld[DT]> So I'm really the only one on line currently.

[21:06] <Myworld[DT]> But as far as the reps from the other day, there's no agreement there.

[21:06] <Goose|warmonger|> Okay.

[21:19] * Gibsonator21 is now known as Gibby[Query]

[21:24] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXXX) Quit ( Quit: )

[21:32] <Myworld[DT]> one is at the movies, and the other is at the casino

[21:33] <Myworld[DT]> They'll be back eventually here.

[22:19] * Gibby[Query] is now known as Gibsonator21

[22:36] * Liz[CSNotHere] is now known as Liz

[22:51] * GeneralOzujsko[DT] (XXXXX) has joined #BaconEaters

[22:52] <Myworld[DT]> ok guys sorry for the waiting. You guys up for it now?

[22:53] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXXX) has joined #BaconEaters

[22:53] <Myworld[DT]> Hey Goose|warmonger| sorry for the waiting them and the fun outside :P

[22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Fun outside?

[22:54] <TiTaN> lol

[22:54] <TiTaN> I was outtttt son

[22:54] <TiTaN> It's friday night o/

[22:54] <TiTaN> Anyways, what's up?

[22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday.

[22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement

[22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this?

[22:56] <TiTaN> Correct

[22:56] <Myworld[DT]> you walked off when it was on the table the other day. You come back to us after update and what to do it? Is unacceptable.

[22:57] <Goose|warmonger|> It was not a matter of update, but getting in touch with people and discussing it.

[22:57] <Myworld[DT]> There was no mention of you or anyone talking about it.

[22:57] <Myworld[DT]> You left the channel

[22:57] <Myworld[DT]> without a word

[22:58] <Goose|warmonger|> We need to let you know any time we discuss peace terms amongst ourselves? At the time, we were not planning on accepting it. We discussed it and decided it would be acceptable.

[22:59] <Myworld[DT]> At least a note that you would need to discuss it would of been acceptable

[22:59] <Liz> Hey TiTaN

[22:59] <Liz> Whats up man

[22:59] <TiTaN> Heya

[22:59] <TiTaN> Nothin

[22:59] <TiTaN> about to go back out here soon

[22:59] <TiTaN> you?

[23:00] <Liz> Doing my make up and trying to go out haha.

[23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> My apologies, but we did not leave with the intent of discussing it, but refusing it.

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> ok so it wasn't an agreement then

[23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> No, it wasn't.

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms

[23:01] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm guessing you have a new proposal?

[23:02] <Myworld[DT]> White Peace, and apology to those still fighting on extending this war longer than it has. We all go our ways not to enter into this conflict again.

[23:03] <Liz> @##$% off.

[23:03] <Liz> That's really it.

[23:03] <Liz> @##$%. Off.

[23:03] <Liz> We're going to burn you into the ground now.

[23:03] <Liz> Have a happy day! <3

[23:04] <Liz> Go !@#$%* on the OWF about that now.

[23:04] <Liz> I could use a few more queries.

[23:04] <Myworld[DT]> Got a better idea lets hear it?

[23:04] <Liz> And while you're at it. Go get some help.

[23:04] <Liz> Cuz you'll need it.

[23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose

[23:04] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> this is an opportunity for CSN to save face.

[23:05] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We all know you're not neo-hegemony.

[23:05] <Liz> I believe, I was not unclear.

[23:05] <Liz> When I said.

[23:05] <Liz> @##$%. Off.

[23:07] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Listen, the apology isn't that important. Take the white peace.

[23:07] <Liz> No, buddy. You're the one in a bad spot here.

[23:07] <Liz> Not us.

[23:07] <Liz> You take our terms or @##$% off now.

[23:07] <Liz> Thats the deal.

[23:07] <Goose|warmonger|> Wait, you really want us to apologize?

[23:08] <Myworld[DT]> This could of been done and over with long ago when TIO got out.

[23:08] <Liz> But its not

[23:08] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't that's fine

[23:08] <Liz> and now you die.

[23:08] <Liz> kthx.

[23:08] <Goose|warmonger|> It could have been done and long ago before you declared.

[23:08] <Myworld[DT]> I saw doing an apology a way for you to save face and regain some of decency

[23:08] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Liz, if you can't handle talks, please stop.

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to do it that's fine. It's not a sticking point for us.

[23:09] <Goose|warmonger|> I'm not interested in you thinking I'm decent, nor the vast majority of the detracters on the OWF.

[23:09] <Liz> Clearly you're delusional if you think we're surrendering or declaring white peace.

[23:09] <Liz> We really dont care. I think you're missing that point.

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> *saying

[23:09] <Goose|warmonger|> But you want an apology from us?

[23:10] <Liz> We're not going to do that. Clearly.

[23:10] <Liz> Asking for an apology? Really? Are you that upset?

[23:10] <Liz> Grow up. It's a friggin game of war. You lose you pay for it.

[23:10] <Myworld[DT]> Did I just not say it doesn't matter if you do or don't

[23:10] <Myworld[DT]> If you don't want to then fine

[23:10] <Liz> Good, then we're done here right?

[23:10] <Liz> You refused terms?

[23:10] <Liz> We refused your Bull%^^&**?

[23:10] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> As stated earlier, it's not a sticking point for us. We thought it would be an opportunity for you.

[23:11] <Myworld[DT]> We here to find a point that is acceptible for everyone. Instead of saying @##$% off and call bull%^^&*.

[23:12] <Liz> You clearly knew that would not be acceptable.

[23:12] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> What wouldn't be acceptable?

[23:12] <Myworld[DT]> Then work off it and lets resolve this.

[23:12] <Liz> We gave you our terms.

[23:12] <Goose|warmonger|> So, you go from 48 hours ago being ready to accept 40k in reps and turn that into us apologizing and white peace?

[23:12] <Liz> They have dropped time and time again.

[23:12] <Liz> And then you drop that bull%^&*?

[23:12] <Liz> No.

[23:13] <Liz> That's not only insulting but just outright retarded to even try to offer that.

[23:13] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Goose, if your MOFA can't handle talks, find one that can.

[23:13] <Liz> Why would we even negoiate? You know our terms. Do we have to go back to the whole, "Burn you into the ground" thing?

[23:15] <Goose|warmonger|> I don't know what has changed your minds so vastly in two days, but at this time we're pretty set on the proposal you made the evening of the ninth.

[23:15] <Myworld[DT]> Liz we know that you have members and allies that don't care for your reps offer to us. Take the moment to listen to them and work to find something that is beatifical and not a outrageous for everyone in CN to accpet.

[23:15] <Myworld[DT]> What changed our minds is this Goose.

[23:15] <Myworld[DT]> Is you walking out of the talks

[23:16] <Myworld[DT]> No communication from you to us that you wanted to talk about it. Walking out meant to us that you didn't accept it.

[23:16] <Goose|warmonger|> I walked out when your offer was on the table and 'take it or leave it' was thrown down. At the time, I decided to leave it. After speaking amongst ourselves, some allies and friends, we decided that it would be acceptable.

[23:16] <Liz> This room has always had a member of CSN in it.

[23:17] <Liz> And Supa has been kind enough to stay as well.

[23:17] <Liz> If not him TiTaN.

[23:19] <Myworld[DT]> Should of said something Goose that you wanted to talk about it. Even after leaving the channel you could of had someone say so. But we didn't hear anything from you until after this update. We figured we were in this for the longer haul with you walking off

[23:21] <Liz> Thats an excuse and you know it.

[23:21] <Myworld[DT]> No excuses

[23:21] <Liz> That is one right there.

[23:21] <Liz> If you were so keen you would have sought us out. Like we have you time and time again.

[23:21] <Goose|warmonger|> There wasn't a plan to do anything at the time but go for the long haul. I've since spoken with some friends, allies, and our government. Shamed came and asked me to accept it. So, between all of that, we've reconsidered and decided to accept it.

[23:23] <Myworld[DT]> If your so sent in reps then you'll need to find a middle ground between that and White peace of CSN and DT walking away.

[23:23] <Gibsonator21> Why? Not two days ago you were in on these reps. Nothing has changed since then.

[23:23] <Liz> I think you will find that is not on the table.

[23:23] <Liz> These are your terms.

[23:23] <Myworld[DT]> 2 days of war has changed

[23:23] <Liz> That we graciously agreed to.

[23:23] <Liz> This is the second time you have renegged

[23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Not true.

[23:24] <Liz> Very true.

[23:24] <Myworld[DT]> No there was no agreement on the table.

[23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> Seriously, Goose, have some sense of professionalism here.

[23:24] <Liz> You came to us with what you found suitable.

[23:24] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> You know very well there was no agreement.

[23:24] <Liz> We offered that back to you as an agreement.

[23:24] <Gibsonator21> Two days of war changes nothing.

[23:24] <Liz> How is it not agreeable?

[23:24] <Liz> You have like 40 something people in your aa.

[23:25] <Liz> That clearly doesn't amount to the damages you agreed to in terms.

[23:25] <Gibsonator21> We basically let you make your own term, and accepted it a day later.

[23:25] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> You walked away from it.

[23:26] <Myworld[DT]> We had no knowledge of that. You walked away. Not a word to us.

[23:26] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> And if you needed to consider it further, then say so.

[23:27] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> So therefore, there was no agreement upon the conclusion of the last round of talks.

[23:27] <Gibsonator21> That time is over. We walked away not ready to agree to it. We talked with allies/friends/members/everyone who's anyone, and now are ready to agree to that term. Two days have changed nothing.

[23:27] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> We understand, only now, that you needed to talk it over.

[23:28] <GeneralOzujsko[DT]> But that means you need to indicate that.

[23:28] <Gibsonator21> Great, we didn't. Either way, we're ready with that offer.

[23:28] <Goose|warmonger|> It wasn't even planned on being talked over.

[23:30] <Goose|warmonger|> I had a chat with Shamedmonkey, with him asking me to reconsider our stance and we did, coming to an agreement that the terms you offered would be agreeable. It was 30 hours after you put them forth that we got word to you about it.

[23:31] <Myworld[DT]> Well when you decided to talk it over you should of said so or come to us asking if it was still on the table. In most talks when a person walks away then the offer is voided.

[23:32] <Goose|warmonger|> We didn't know about even talking it over until shortly before we let TiTaN know that they were acceptable.

[23:32] * Gibsonator21 sighs

[23:32] <Gibsonator21> We're talking in circles.

[23:34] <Myworld[DT]> So tell you what up until the logs from hearing CSN wanted to accept what you walked away. I was thinking of a lower offer to counter with that wasn't white peace. So I give you the opportunity to find that number.

[23:36] <Gibsonator21> I'd rather you guess what we're thinking. Shouldn't be so hard since you provided it for us last talks we had.

[23:37] <Myworld[DT]> Well its not the same number sorry.

[23:40] <Goose|warmonger|> I guess we don't have an agreement, and please note that my leaving means we don't have an agreement and we won't be discussing a lowering of terms any further. Please come find me when you're ready to agree to the terms.

[23:40] * Goose|warmonger| (XXXX) has left #BaconEaters

[23:40] * Gibsonator21 (XXXX) has left #BaconEaters

[23:40] * Liz (XXX) has left #BaconEaters

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Yes. You posted the full logs. Which tell exactly the same story I just provided with like 2 dozen lines: You made a counter offer. Later, they accepted it. Then you demanded CSN surrender to you, and they told you to shove it.

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Yes. You posted the full logs. Which tell exactly the same story I just provided with like 2 dozen lines: You made a counter offer. Later, they accepted it. Then you demanded CSN surrender to you, and they told you to shove it.

They didn't accept it. They walked way. Look at the logs and read them.

[23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> My apologies, but we did not leave with the intent of discussing it, but refusing it.

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> ok so it wasn't an agreement then

[23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> No, it wasn't.

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms

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They didn't accept it. They walked way. Look at the logs and read them.

[23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> My apologies, but we did not leave with the intent of discussing it, but refusing it.

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> ok so it wasn't an agreement then

[23:00] <Goose|warmonger|> No, it wasn't.

[23:00] <Myworld[DT]> So now time to come to better terms

They quite literally accepted it. This isn't debatable.

[22:54] <Goose|warmonger|> Where do we stand on a peace agreement. You'd offered 30k from anywhere and 10k internally, which we agreed to yesterday.

[22:55] <Myworld[DT]> With you walking away from it wasn't an agreement

[22:56] <Goose|warmonger|> I know, and I mentioned to TiTaN yesterday that we'd agree to it. Am I right in assuming that you no longer wish to agree to this?

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Quite frankly anyone who is told to pay reps in this war should tell that alliance to shove those reps up their ass, im looking at you CSN, VE and the rest of you

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They quite literally accepted it. This isn't debatable.

They walked way, didn't say they were going to discuss it didn't say yes. They exited the channel and left.

They query Titan after update yesterday with this:

01[00:42] Liz has been idle 1sec, signed on Thu Feb 10 15:10:46

01[00:42] Liz End of /WHOIS list.

-

01[00:42] <TiTaN|zZz> not yet

01[00:42] <TiTaN|zZz> finishing up some homework

01[00:42] <TiTaN|zZz> what's up?

[00:43] <Liz> Excellent :D

01[00:44] <TiTaN|zZz> What's up?

[00:44] <Liz> 30k from anywhere, 10k internally bought and sent from DT. 6 month time line on it.

[00:46] <Liz> That was your offer last night I believe.

01[00:46] <TiTaN|zZz> I'll post it in gov on our forums

01[00:46] <TiTaN|zZz> we'll get back to you tomorrow

[00:46] <Liz> Alrighty, thanks man.

There is no agreement from us saying we would honor what was on the table. Why cause CSN walked away not stating that they would be discussing the offer on the table. Find anywhere in the logs that either side said that DT or CSN agreed to the terms at the same time. Cause there is none. If there was an agreement then we wouldn't have been having more talks. If they said that they were going to think about it, then don't you think the conversation would of started off with something like this:

So did CSN come to a decision on the terms? But instead we start of with CSN going we accepted your offer after we walked away and stating that they had no intention of accepting it. But after they had talked to their allies, but sure didn't come talk to us saying hey we're discussing it. Especially before 2 more days of war had past.

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Yes. You posted the full logs. Which tell exactly the same story I just provided with like 2 dozen lines: You made a counter offer. Later, they accepted it. Then you demanded CSN surrender to you, and they told you to shove it.

Whelp

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways

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But after they had talked to their allies, but sure didn't come talk to us saying hey we're discussing it. Especially before 2 more days of war had past.

One day of war had passed. Clearly after one day of war your ability to pay the reps has changed.

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're not asking CSN to surrender

[23:09] <Myworld[DT]> We're staying we part ways

I don't really care how Myworld put it. CSN could claim that asking for 40k tech is not asking for a surrender. DT's original terms back to CSN were "White peace, and you apologize." That's a surrender. Get over it.

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Quite frankly anyone who is told to pay reps in this war should tell that alliance to shove those reps up their ass, im looking at you CSN, VE and the rest of you

Well said.

CSN you are epic fail.

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